Vivaer nasal valve remodeling and Empty Nose Syndrome?
Has anyone had Vivaer procedure? I'm concerned about Empty Nose Syndrome but my doctor claims that only occurs with removing or shrinking turbinates. Doesn't the vivaer procedure also affect turbinates?
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Hello @warpedtrekker– Thank you for posting. Welcome to Mayo Clinic Connect.
Can you tell me what you know about the Vivaer procedure?
The only thing I know is the literature that my ENT doctor gave me. He said it is a non-invasive procedure that reshapes the nasal valve area, widening the area to possibly help with airflow. I've been to three different ENT's, and two of them wanted to go in invasively and fix my deviated septum, and reduce turbinates, either with coblation or other means. After hearing about ENS, I am not sure I want to take that chance. The Vivaer procedure apparently uses radio waves to shrink and reshape the nasal valve area. But then I saw a an article from an ENT doctor stating, that even messing around with the nasal valve area could cause issues like ENS. Because the nasal valve area is supposed to have some resistance of air.
I have "mild" sleep apnea(use BIPAP machine), had a DISE procedure which showed my tongue base collapsing blocking airway. I use BIPAP with dental appliance and still breathe through mouth sometimes and get obstructions. My ENT says he needs to start by opening nasal airway and then from there, consider other options for my tongue collapse and recessed jaw, like jaw surgery.
I have been expiriencing some very odd symptoms and will try to keep it condensed. In 2014 I had a turbinate reduction(no turbinates were completely removed thankfully) and a septoplasty due to my constant stuffyness and smothered feeling upon waking up. About two years go by and my stuffiness apears the same and also noticing that I feel much more winded when doing activities. Fast forward to july 2018 and I had my first ever anxiety/panic attack. When this occured I felt numbness in certain parts of my body which most of these symptoms are gone. The most notable symptoms that still carry on are these episodes of breathlessness upon simple exertion such as walking/moving fast paced, moving objects over 10 lbs, or pushing my laundry basket, going from low to high altitudes. Also speaking more then a minute causes a pressure breathlessness sensation near my pharynx.It is to the point where I had to leave my job due to the distressing feeling of passing out or running out of breath. I was cleared of any lung or asthma problems and heart apeared healthy from the tests and ct scans done.I am also relatively healthy and try to eat as clean as possible, bit have left out cardio due to my concerns. Ive seen 3 ent specialists and have cleared me of anything out of the ordinary.
What I am wondering is if by any chance a side effect from the turbinate surgery 4 years back could have altered any inhale signaling to the brain or nervous system. I know this could be over thinking but I have been expiriencing several symptoms related to ENS syndrome or empty nose syndrome which correlates to sensations of breathlessness, dry nose(as I have most of the time) and intermittent loss of sensation of air when inhaling through nose(usually when its too hot/humid or too cold). Again these symptoms all seemed to have come after my apparent anxiety attack and Still scratching my head in the sense if these symptoms are anxiety induced or complications of the surgery which I did not feel anything unsual until recent other than dryness and post nasal drip feeling since then.
Any suggestions or input would be
Hello @healthiswealth1, Welcome! Thank you for posting. You will notice that I merged your post with another to discuss Empty nose syndrome. Please virtually meet @warpedtrekker– 🙂
Can I ask where you live? Do you have access to visit Mayo Clinic in Rochester? The reason I ask is the Rhinologists here work closely with Allergists and Pulmonologists. Maybe that's something worth looking into?
I live in Austin Texas area. So any Mayo Clinic will be very far to go to. But I was planning to go to one of the Mayo locations due to other health issues that my current doctors can't figure out. The issue is no doctors in the Austin area work under one roof and talk to each other to figure out solutions for patients. There is no place except for mayo that does that.
@jamienolson , I live in san diego ca. I have seen 3 ent specialists and one mentioned I had dry sinuses(which I fear could be a symptom of the turbinate reduction 4 years ago. And also a very bothersome post nasal drip sensation(as if you went for a run and have mucus in your throat feeling) fortunatley its not green or yellow but more of a sticky clear white. I was cleared of any major pollen type allergies or pet allergies. My symptom of suffucation (hard to sense inhale) seem more under very humid hot conditions and very cold dry conditions/high altitudes. I am also having issues doing physical labor or even power walking due to feeling breathless. The surgery was also very conservative and still have a 3 sets of turbinates. I have been to the Er and seen various doctors and it apears my 02 lvls seem fine and have had ct scans and chest lungs xrayed and everything apears normal… Yet im still feeling these distressing symptoms. Any other suggestions would be appreciated.
@healthiswealth1 Welcome to this wonderful group we help each other with support,advice as to our on condition .Iid like to ask you have you seen a cardiologist?I ask because of your shortness of breath.This is what sent me to a cardiologist long time ago as it turned out my heart wasn't getting enough oxygen
Has anyone had symptoms after turbinate reduction surgery that despite having clear nasal passages included feelings of nasal obstruction, dry empty air, not being able to take and feel a deep breath, a sensation of being unable to breathe with nasal and facial pain, an inability to fall and stay asleep and being jolted awake due to lack of airflow, and being constantly distracted by a sense that you are not getting enough air? Have you been treated for this condition and found relief and if so, by whom and what was done to correct the problem? I am in a constant state of hell and need help!
Welcome to Connect, @pastore
You'll notice that I moved your message to this existing discussion about Empty Nose Syndrome. I did this so you can meet others talking about turbinate reduction surgery. Click VIEW & REPLY to see the posts by @healthiswealth1 and @warpedtrekker. They too spoke of difficulty breathing and airflow.
I'd like to introduce you to other members @bellatrac @joannemaisey @warpedtrekker and @ashleyhall, talking about empty nose syndrome in this discussion here:
* Facial Pain – Empty Nose Syndrome https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/facial-pain-empty-nose-syndrome/
@pastore, how long ago did you have turbinate reduction surgery? Did your ENT specialist say these side effects are temporary?
I had turbinate surgery in July after being told by my physician to get off of Zyrtec-D that I had been on for 15 years. Soon after I did so, I was severely congested and couldn't breathe out of my nose. After mentioning turbinate surgery, I was told by an ENT that nothing could be done for me and that my turbinates had already been reduced (in a previous surgery). I, in a state of desperation and stupidity, went back to the surgeon's associate that I had had prior, and he said he could reduce my turbinates to open up the air flow (with me not knowing the ramifications). Two months after the surgery and after everything should have healed is when I started having insomnia, got dependent on benzos prescribed and now more recently have the horrific symptoms I described above that have thrown me into utter panic and cognitive decline. Any suggestions as to reparative action to correct the surgery or is this now permanent?