Is depression permanent?

Posted by rollinsk @rollinsk, Aug 1, 2020

Depression burst on my after extended pressureful work for long with little rest in 2007. Ever since I am drugs. My question, is depression permanent?

@jesfactsmon

@jimhd Sorry I am writing so much. Jim, ignore anything else I have been writing and just read this. I have a few more thoughts on this post of yours about the history of your depression. When you say " I've long since done the work of forgiving, but in some way, I think that I don't want ever to forget" It's extremely admirable to forgive, no question. But I think you still need to do the Inner Child work a'la Bradshaw. Linda and I were just discussing your post and her take was this. Forgiving those that hurt or abused you is a saintly thing to do. But it still will not touch that deep inner hurt that you carry.

What Linda and I both did back in the late eighties, and found to be effective, was to take time to sit still and get in touch with the little innocent child who we were during the abuse that befell us. We, and you, need to feel the feelings that little child felt during that abuse, and then tell that innocent little thing that it did not deserve this abuse and that it should have been loved and protected and not hurt. In other words, your adult self needs to get in touch with the emotions your child self felt and rescue it from that hurt. And this does not have to be a childhood abuse that you are addressing, it could be any abuse, even when you were a so-called "adult" because that hurt you experienced in those situations was hurt to your inner self, who is essentially a little child throughout your whole life. Down under the facades we build up around ourselves there is always the little child at our core.

It's hard for me to describe it any better than that. I know it worked for both of us and it can work for anyone else. To do it effectively you have to devote a time and place for real quiet, and you have to be able to become raw emotionally. This may mean doing this at the outset of a long weekend for someone who works. Since you are retired Jim that might not pose a problem, if you ever decided to try this.

The thing is, this is science. It's a universally human phenomenon. I hope anyone suffering from abuse to your inner being will give it a try. My wife wants me to add more, she is a great therapist but hates writing, but I will leave that for her to write another time if she ever decides to. Best, Hank

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@jesfactsmon Interesting information as I'm experiencing past childhood traumas that keep reliving themselves and have been questioning why now, why one trauma after another as not allowing me to ever forget and in my mind sixties.
A therapist has said traumas reveal themselves when we're ready to deal with it. Hmm…I wonder

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@marjou

@jesfactsmon Interesting information as I'm experiencing past childhood traumas that keep reliving themselves and have been questioning why now, why one trauma after another as not allowing me to ever forget and in my mind sixties.
A therapist has said traumas reveal themselves when we're ready to deal with it. Hmm…I wonder

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@marjou Yes, hmmmmm. Not knowing the exact context I'm not sure what the therapist meant precisely. I do feel that the hurts that were within me, and had been there from 7 years old until late thirties (when I dealt with them) could have been accessed anytime if the proper methods had been used. That was me. I had a particular level and type of hurt. I was not DEEPLY abused. I grew up in a basically loving family, or at least one in which no one except my 3 year older brother was intentionally trying to hurt me. The hurt he laid on me was part of what I worked on. (As a side note, he became a great guy as an adult and has profusely apologised to me for what he did as a kid). But I am sure lot's of people had much worse harm done to them that I did and they might not be able to address their hurt without professional therapy. Best, Hank

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@jesfactsmon

@jimhd Sorry I am writing so much. Jim, ignore anything else I have been writing and just read this. I have a few more thoughts on this post of yours about the history of your depression. When you say " I've long since done the work of forgiving, but in some way, I think that I don't want ever to forget" It's extremely admirable to forgive, no question. But I think you still need to do the Inner Child work a'la Bradshaw. Linda and I were just discussing your post and her take was this. Forgiving those that hurt or abused you is a saintly thing to do. But it still will not touch that deep inner hurt that you carry.

What Linda and I both did back in the late eighties, and found to be effective, was to take time to sit still and get in touch with the little innocent child who we were during the abuse that befell us. We, and you, need to feel the feelings that little child felt during that abuse, and then tell that innocent little thing that it did not deserve this abuse and that it should have been loved and protected and not hurt. In other words, your adult self needs to get in touch with the emotions your child self felt and rescue it from that hurt. And this does not have to be a childhood abuse that you are addressing, it could be any abuse, even when you were a so-called "adult" because that hurt you experienced in those situations was hurt to your inner self, who is essentially a little child throughout your whole life. Down under the facades we build up around ourselves there is always the little child at our core.

It's hard for me to describe it any better than that. I know it worked for both of us and it can work for anyone else. To do it effectively you have to devote a time and place for real quiet, and you have to be able to become raw emotionally. This may mean doing this at the outset of a long weekend for someone who works. Since you are retired Jim that might not pose a problem, if you ever decided to try this.

The thing is, this is science. It's a universally human phenomenon. I hope anyone suffering from abuse to your inner being will give it a try. My wife wants me to add more, she is a great therapist but hates writing, but I will leave that for her to write another time if she ever decides to. Best, Hank

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@jesfactsmon

Just a few short sentences, after a long day working in the heat.

I've not had it in me to be very active on Connect the past few days, more than a few likes. I'm giving thought to the inner child concept, and may be in a better frame of mind to actually address it one of these days, but I don't have the emotional strength right now. As I said, I'll talk with David about it next week. I'm not ignoring you. I think it's going to take some time, and I'm sensing inner tension and fear about the process. I don't like to admit it, but as far as depression and anxiety and PTSD go, I'm feeling fragile right now. You'd think that I'd be farther along the path to recovery by now, but I seem to be going through a low spot, not sure exactly why. I'm hanging on, anticipating our daughter's visit on the 20th.

Jim

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@jimhd

@jesfactsmon

Just a few short sentences, after a long day working in the heat.

I've not had it in me to be very active on Connect the past few days, more than a few likes. I'm giving thought to the inner child concept, and may be in a better frame of mind to actually address it one of these days, but I don't have the emotional strength right now. As I said, I'll talk with David about it next week. I'm not ignoring you. I think it's going to take some time, and I'm sensing inner tension and fear about the process. I don't like to admit it, but as far as depression and anxiety and PTSD go, I'm feeling fragile right now. You'd think that I'd be farther along the path to recovery by now, but I seem to be going through a low spot, not sure exactly why. I'm hanging on, anticipating our daughter's visit on the 20th.

Jim

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@jimhd I'm sorry Jim for your recent slump. I totally understand, don't worry a bit about replying about anything. I just have so much hope for you to find an answer for you. It's been quite a long time now but I still do remember how it felt to be steeped in despair. How much it can make you just want to give up and not have to feel anymore.

I hope David is interested in helping you in exploring inner child work. The pain exists at your center. Your center is not feeling love, which is what it needs and craves. The catharsis that happened to me when the love started to pour over that inner part of me was powerful. It was scary how emotional I became, or it became, whichever. It took a while to recover as it threw me off balance, which is why it's good to plan to have time/space after a session to just chill and be with yourself.

I feel hurt in thinking about where you are at Jim. I hope you can get through the awful hell that this is. I am here for you to the best of my ability to be. Also, feel free to talk through private messages as well if that helps you. Best, Hank

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@jesfactsmon

@jimhd I'm sorry Jim for your recent slump. I totally understand, don't worry a bit about replying about anything. I just have so much hope for you to find an answer for you. It's been quite a long time now but I still do remember how it felt to be steeped in despair. How much it can make you just want to give up and not have to feel anymore.

I hope David is interested in helping you in exploring inner child work. The pain exists at your center. Your center is not feeling love, which is what it needs and craves. The catharsis that happened to me when the love started to pour over that inner part of me was powerful. It was scary how emotional I became, or it became, whichever. It took a while to recover as it threw me off balance, which is why it's good to plan to have time/space after a session to just chill and be with yourself.

I feel hurt in thinking about where you are at Jim. I hope you can get through the awful hell that this is. I am here for you to the best of my ability to be. Also, feel free to talk through private messages as well if that helps you. Best, Hank

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@jesfactsmon Thanks, Hank.

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@jimhd

@jimhd Jim, Linda and I were talking more about the inner child work each of us did. There was one more concept that I remembered that I did not get across adequately. If you don't mind I'd like to just mention that because it is, as I say, a crucial point.

When I did the work on myself, and I sat quietly trying to bring up in my memory some instance of trauma that occurred to me, the way I was able to "give myself love" was to view myself as me, my adult self, viewing me as my child self. Rather than the child self trying to give itself love, it's actually the adult you that is seeing the hurt being done to the child and giving that love out to the child. It's the adult "you" giving love to the child "you".

Once you have relived that experience of hurt from the past (and you really have got to bring it up clearly in your mind), and you have seen that inner child experiencing the hurt, and have given that love to your inner child, that is when the "it" or the crux of inner child work, happens. The way that it happened for me was by the adult giving total love to the child.

I just thought I should make that clearer, and I hope I have done justice to the process. It's been so long since I did it. The other thing Linda wondered is how drugs (such as anti-depressants) might affect inner child work, or if they would. Just something to be aware of.

Hope all is well. Hank

PS: when you said your driveway is 1/4 mile long I was stunned. That is a LONG driveway. 😬

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@jesfactsmon

@jimhd Jim, Linda and I were talking more about the inner child work each of us did. There was one more concept that I remembered that I did not get across adequately. If you don't mind I'd like to just mention that because it is, as I say, a crucial point.

When I did the work on myself, and I sat quietly trying to bring up in my memory some instance of trauma that occurred to me, the way I was able to "give myself love" was to view myself as me, my adult self, viewing me as my child self. Rather than the child self trying to give itself love, it's actually the adult you that is seeing the hurt being done to the child and giving that love out to the child. It's the adult "you" giving love to the child "you".

Once you have relived that experience of hurt from the past (and you really have got to bring it up clearly in your mind), and you have seen that inner child experiencing the hurt, and have given that love to your inner child, that is when the "it" or the crux of inner child work, happens. The way that it happened for me was by the adult giving total love to the child.

I just thought I should make that clearer, and I hope I have done justice to the process. It's been so long since I did it. The other thing Linda wondered is how drugs (such as anti-depressants) might affect inner child work, or if they would. Just something to be aware of.

Hope all is well. Hank

PS: when you said your driveway is 1/4 mile long I was stunned. That is a LONG driveway. 😬

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@jesfactsmon

We live 7 miles from town on 10 acres. A little over 7 acres is pasture, which our neighbor is leasing for their cattle and horses. They take care of the irrigation and are doing various things to improve the pasture. Next to the barn is an acre of dry pasture, and the rest is either yard and gardens or undeveloped space that's gravelled for parking cars and equipment. Keeping the barn, garage and house, along with the yard, is pretty much a full time job for me except for winter, when I work on my indoor projects. It's pretty good therapy for me, for the most part.

Jim

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I was taking Lithium for 32 years along with Cymbalta for about 10 years for bipolar depression. I had 3 of my parathyroid glands removed at the end of April 2021 because the Lithium was destroying them and my calcium levels were high. My calcium and parathyroid hormone levels have been normal for 2 months but I am still very depressed. The lithium has been replaced with lamotrigine and depakote. The cymbalta with quetiapine and trintellix. My doctor also tried some other antidepressants but nothing has worked. I also take Ativan for anxiety. I am a 68 yr old female and I am wondering if anyone out there has a similar experience and what combination has worked for them.

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@bobby00

I was taking Lithium for 32 years along with Cymbalta for about 10 years for bipolar depression. I had 3 of my parathyroid glands removed at the end of April 2021 because the Lithium was destroying them and my calcium levels were high. My calcium and parathyroid hormone levels have been normal for 2 months but I am still very depressed. The lithium has been replaced with lamotrigine and depakote. The cymbalta with quetiapine and trintellix. My doctor also tried some other antidepressants but nothing has worked. I also take Ativan for anxiety. I am a 68 yr old female and I am wondering if anyone out there has a similar experience and what combination has worked for them.

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@bobby00 Hi and welcome to Mayo Clinic Connect. Going from 2 medicines to 4 must have been a big change. There are a significant amount of members that have had similar experiences which is why I moved your post to this discussion. I wanted you to be able to connect with with people like @jesfactsmon, @marjou and @lorirenee1

There are also other discussions you may be interested in : Depression but allergic to Prozac, other drugs used for it: https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/depression-2f3997/
What are medicines for depression?: https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/depression-5/
How to manage depression: https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/depression-2acdda/

Antidepressants: Selecting one that's right for you: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/depression/in-depth/antidepressants/art-20046273

Do you currently have a therapist that you are seeing to discuss the medication and its lack of effectiveness?

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@amandaburnett

@bobby00 Hi and welcome to Mayo Clinic Connect. Going from 2 medicines to 4 must have been a big change. There are a significant amount of members that have had similar experiences which is why I moved your post to this discussion. I wanted you to be able to connect with with people like @jesfactsmon, @marjou and @lorirenee1

There are also other discussions you may be interested in : Depression but allergic to Prozac, other drugs used for it: https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/depression-2f3997/
What are medicines for depression?: https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/depression-5/
How to manage depression: https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/depression-2acdda/

Antidepressants: Selecting one that's right for you: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/depression/in-depth/antidepressants/art-20046273

Do you currently have a therapist that you are seeing to discuss the medication and its lack of effectiveness?

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Thank you Amanda. I do have a psychiatrist and she was hoping that the parathyroid surgery would help in my recovery. I am only slightly better. I am eating a little better, my blood pressure is better and I am a little stronger. But now I am developing aching joints on top of everything. She thought that the combination of seraquel and cymbalta was causing it so she switched me from cymbalta to trintellix 3 weeks ago but the joints are still aching and growing worse. Blood tests do not show any auto-immune diseases. Before the surgery she tried Ambilify, Vreylar and Latuda so maybe it is worth trying them again. Somehow, I think because my body chemistry has changed from the surgery I should try reducing everything. That’s why I am reaching out to see if anyone with Bipolar has had this surgery and what their doctor did to adjust their medications afterward.

Thank you for the links. I will look into them.

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@bobby00

Thank you Amanda. I do have a psychiatrist and she was hoping that the parathyroid surgery would help in my recovery. I am only slightly better. I am eating a little better, my blood pressure is better and I am a little stronger. But now I am developing aching joints on top of everything. She thought that the combination of seraquel and cymbalta was causing it so she switched me from cymbalta to trintellix 3 weeks ago but the joints are still aching and growing worse. Blood tests do not show any auto-immune diseases. Before the surgery she tried Ambilify, Vreylar and Latuda so maybe it is worth trying them again. Somehow, I think because my body chemistry has changed from the surgery I should try reducing everything. That’s why I am reaching out to see if anyone with Bipolar has had this surgery and what their doctor did to adjust their medications afterward.

Thank you for the links. I will look into them.

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I have major depression disorder reoccurring. I had surgery two months ago and was readmitted a week later with uncontrollable vomiting. They stopped all my medication because I couldn’t have anything by mouth. When I was released I decided to cut my Zoloft from 200mg to 150mg. I became nervous, agitated and depressed. I just didn’t want to talk to people or see them in person. I had forgotten that I reduced the medication. On my monthly visit to my psychiatrist after talking she said I have to look over your medication and change something you are not right. The more I talk with you I can see you are just not acting right. That’s when I remembered about the Zoloft and she told me to go home and immediately take the 50mg and up the dose back to 200mg. I do feel better. The point of this is yes this proves to me that I will have to remain on antidepressants the rest of my life.

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@dianecostella

I have major depression disorder reoccurring. I had surgery two months ago and was readmitted a week later with uncontrollable vomiting. They stopped all my medication because I couldn’t have anything by mouth. When I was released I decided to cut my Zoloft from 200mg to 150mg. I became nervous, agitated and depressed. I just didn’t want to talk to people or see them in person. I had forgotten that I reduced the medication. On my monthly visit to my psychiatrist after talking she said I have to look over your medication and change something you are not right. The more I talk with you I can see you are just not acting right. That’s when I remembered about the Zoloft and she told me to go home and immediately take the 50mg and up the dose back to 200mg. I do feel better. The point of this is yes this proves to me that I will have to remain on antidepressants the rest of my life.

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I think most people with depression decide for one reason or another to cut back or stop their meds. I did that recently. My decision happened after quite a bit of change and necessary adjustment in my life. Not an ideal time to stop meds. But my executive brain was in charge, and I ignored all other considerations. I was less mindful of my feelings and behavior.

Your account of recent surgery and hospitalization sounds serious and would, in my book, be cause for a lot of mindfulness and self care.

Do you have a friend or family member you can be in touch with as you go through these challenges? Someone who knows your history and can reflect back your best interests? Someone who might say, with all you’re going through, now may not be the time to adjust meds.

I’m 70 y/o and can still fool myself into thinking, aha! I’ll cut back on my meds.

Well, as the saying goes, if you were diabetic, would you cut back on your insulin? I can only say, depression is a slippery slope and I would respect it, be mindful, and find someone, doc, social worker, family, friend, that you can talk to spontaneously (phone, email, text) who will reflect back to you your concerns in a way that helps you make good decisions about your health. I’m on the hunt for a case manager because their advice doesn’t come with any history other than other people with depression.

I do a hummingbird meditation where I listen to 10 minutes of music and breathe in and out my nose, humming to the music as I go. Steadying your breath works wonders. I’ll see if I can find a link for you.

Stay the course and steady as you go ❤️ Suzanne

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