Other causes of failed PEth test for alcohol abuse?

Posted by gjones1956 @gjones1956, Nov 14, 2017

My daughter undergoes periodic peth testing for alchohol abuse. She fails regularly, although swears she drinks NOTHING. We have reason to believe she is telling the truth. Assuming she is indeed not drinking, is there a physical condition or ailment that might produce positive peth tests? She is 29, has enlarged lymph nodes, some kind of mysterious condition that gives her severe hives, etc. We are wondering if some type of autoinflammation or autoimmune condition might explain elevated levels. Our daughter is FINALLY discussing this with her regular doctor but if it is some unusual condition a specialist will be needed. The reason the peth test is required is due to a nasty custody dispute with lots of allegations of misconduct. I just want to know if there is ANYTHING other than alchohol consumption that can lead to positive test results. Any thoughts or knowledge of cases? Thanks for reading.

Liked by livermom

To Milo / FlyBoy / Tools…..There is a common thread among all of us here. The way the dry spot blood test is being administered by the lab employee is skewing the test. The fact that on these past 2 separate occasions (the only 2 conducted here in the states), my husband had to walk the lab tech on how to administer the dry blood spot (DBS) test is troubling. Each time he got blowback on it by the tech. Mind you, these were USDTL recommended facilities administering their Peth test.
So it begs the question, is USDTL doing an audit of these labs they contract with and ensuring that lab techs are following the procedures and administering USDTL'S DBS test properly? If they are auditing, how often is it happening? Is there faulty manufacturing of the DBS cards?
Is the actual Peth test too sensitive to begin with? When will there by FDA approval?
Are there problems with storage and / or transport?
The complete laisse faire attitude by the lab tech about doing the test properly is sickening. They clearly do not understand the ramifications of a positive test or in ALL our instances here a False-positive test.
Should my husband need to do yet another one of these in the states, I will go with him as an eye witness, and film the procedure being done, if possible. People's careers and children are at stake over the inaccuracy of this test.
I truly believe that people's testimony here is only the microscopic tip of the iceberg to a much larger problem with this test, and many other alcohol tests.

Where are the studies of control groups in an isolated and monitored setting that enter rehab, do an initial Peth test upon entry, then repeat the Peth test at 2, 4, 6 weeks subsequently. Plus make sure both methods are used, a blood draw and the DBS, and in addition, send out to labs other than USDTL. I have yet to come across any such research. This certainly would be worth a warranted request to USDTL to see peer review if a study like this has been done.

Wish there was a way to reach out to all unions and general public who must take this test for compliance reasons and hear other testimonials about dealing with false positive on the Peth tests. How do we report labs that are not doing procedures correctly? How do you hold labs / labs tech accountable for not doing a test properly, that can ultimately be disastrous for the individual? Apparently YES you can!!! It's called clinical laboratory malpractice.
https://www.natlawreview.com/article/drug-testing-laboratories-may-be-sued-negligence-south-carolina
The above article also references other states. "Finally, the Court was persuaded by the fact that courts in New York, Pennsylvania and Wyoming have all determined that a drug testing facility owes a duty of care to the person subject to testing."
https://www.mlo-online.com/home/article/13009490/legal-liability-in-urine-drug-testing-could-your-lab-be-exposed
My apologies for the long post.

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Everything you say is correct. And there is a lot more going on than is here. Check your private messages and give me a shout, I’ll fill you in, and explain what’s going on with the peth test.

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@toolsd

Everything you say is correct. And there is a lot more going on than is here. Check your private messages and give me a shout, I’ll fill you in, and explain what’s going on with the peth test.

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I would love filled in

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@rocketsparten

To Milo / FlyBoy / Tools…..There is a common thread among all of us here. The way the dry spot blood test is being administered by the lab employee is skewing the test. The fact that on these past 2 separate occasions (the only 2 conducted here in the states), my husband had to walk the lab tech on how to administer the dry blood spot (DBS) test is troubling. Each time he got blowback on it by the tech. Mind you, these were USDTL recommended facilities administering their Peth test.
So it begs the question, is USDTL doing an audit of these labs they contract with and ensuring that lab techs are following the procedures and administering USDTL'S DBS test properly? If they are auditing, how often is it happening? Is there faulty manufacturing of the DBS cards?
Is the actual Peth test too sensitive to begin with? When will there by FDA approval?
Are there problems with storage and / or transport?
The complete laisse faire attitude by the lab tech about doing the test properly is sickening. They clearly do not understand the ramifications of a positive test or in ALL our instances here a False-positive test.
Should my husband need to do yet another one of these in the states, I will go with him as an eye witness, and film the procedure being done, if possible. People's careers and children are at stake over the inaccuracy of this test.
I truly believe that people's testimony here is only the microscopic tip of the iceberg to a much larger problem with this test, and many other alcohol tests.

Where are the studies of control groups in an isolated and monitored setting that enter rehab, do an initial Peth test upon entry, then repeat the Peth test at 2, 4, 6 weeks subsequently. Plus make sure both methods are used, a blood draw and the DBS, and in addition, send out to labs other than USDTL. I have yet to come across any such research. This certainly would be worth a warranted request to USDTL to see peer review if a study like this has been done.

Wish there was a way to reach out to all unions and general public who must take this test for compliance reasons and hear other testimonials about dealing with false positive on the Peth tests. How do we report labs that are not doing procedures correctly? How do you hold labs / labs tech accountable for not doing a test properly, that can ultimately be disastrous for the individual? Apparently YES you can!!! It's called clinical laboratory malpractice.
https://www.natlawreview.com/article/drug-testing-laboratories-may-be-sued-negligence-south-carolina
The above article also references other states. "Finally, the Court was persuaded by the fact that courts in New York, Pennsylvania and Wyoming have all determined that a drug testing facility owes a duty of care to the person subject to testing."
https://www.mlo-online.com/home/article/13009490/legal-liability-in-urine-drug-testing-could-your-lab-be-exposed
My apologies for the long post.

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We all need to come together and bring about a suit. I know of at least a few people who would join in and share some of the financial obligation.

Liked by slw2227282

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@genie862017

I believe something is wrong with the finger stick test, a 20 step procedure to obtain the sample.
Also I was diagnosed with bacterial overgrowth. Leaky gut. Methane breath test confirmed it. That can also effect the resuls. My hair follicle tests were Negative, my mail tests negative, my venous draws were also negative.
I am an RN who sought help, no problems with work, no DUIs, . The nursing board handed down a years worth of testing. I had 3 " positive " tests. My treatment center uses a local owned lab . I wonder about this " middle man lab". Back in May of 2019, another " middle man lab", in or around Dothan, Alabama was found guilty of changing drug test results. They had a contract with the state of Alabama or maybe that county's DHS. When there were positive tests, well more drug tests, ( more money in their pockets) occurred. These tampered results cost more than money, it cost families. Children were removed from their home. I am cash poor so to speak. My word against theirs. I don't have the money to go after that middle man lab. I have had no problems with Lab Corp or Affinity Labs.

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Hi! We are also in Alabama. Could you PM me? I would love to know if we have dealt with the same individuals in the middle who states they are the expert.

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Update: My husband has now received his 3rd positive PEth with one month left in his 5 year probation. 1st was on 4/16. He works in pharmacy and continuously exposed to alcohol based products. He failed the $850 lie detector test but not for alcohol apparently deceptive about opioids per the polygraph admin. Nobody believes he is sober and the board will now probably take his license. Nobody will even entertain that anything else could be causing the positive PEth. This 3rd rest the tech milked his finger and touched the spots. It makes no sense that he shall be responsible if they do not admin the test properly. So basically it appears that his 9 years of college is going to be thrown out the window. This is just a disaster. He has never had any other positive tests for any substance before these 3 PEth tests. We are at a complete loss.

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I have had only 1 positive peth barely over the cutoff and for that I'm going through hell. I can't imagine what you are going through trying to defend your position on 3 peth tests. Lawyer up is all I can say and pray at night each night.

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@slw2227282

Update: My husband has now received his 3rd positive PEth with one month left in his 5 year probation. 1st was on 4/16. He works in pharmacy and continuously exposed to alcohol based products. He failed the $850 lie detector test but not for alcohol apparently deceptive about opioids per the polygraph admin. Nobody believes he is sober and the board will now probably take his license. Nobody will even entertain that anything else could be causing the positive PEth. This 3rd rest the tech milked his finger and touched the spots. It makes no sense that he shall be responsible if they do not admin the test properly. So basically it appears that his 9 years of college is going to be thrown out the window. This is just a disaster. He has never had any other positive tests for any substance before these 3 PEth tests. We are at a complete loss.

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I can highly empathize with your plight having watched my wife with these Peth tests. If there is anything that I think is more witchcraft than Peth tests it is the polygraph (based on a lot of first and second hand experience). I honestly am not sure which one I would trust less…

For the Peths you may be too late, but you need to be taking the USDTL one and then running over same day to take a Labcorp blood drawn one (Request-a-Test, Quest, or just call around). My wife was failing the USDTL ones and passing the Labcorp ones same day. Explain that if the USDTL test are accurate… and there is one member on this board that was failing USDTL tests at one lab (same as my wife) and then driving across town and taking USDTL tests at another place and passing them. Again… explain that one.

Toolsd and I have had a lot of discussion about this and the testing methodologies. We both believe something is seriously flawed. The test facilities are not following procedures in many cases and it is effecting these test. And it is ruining people's lives – costing them jobs, kids, and worse.

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@flyboybray

I have had only 1 positive peth barely over the cutoff and for that I'm going through hell. I can't imagine what you are going through trying to defend your position on 3 peth tests. Lawyer up is all I can say and pray at night each night.

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We pray daily. Since the first test which was 152, right after they forced him to use 70% ethanol hand sanitizer and no hand washing. He has eliminated many hygiene products even though he has always used them. Stopped drinking orange juice. Will now stop eating PB&J bc of “fermented fruit.” I don’t even see the point of paying for all of these other tests that say negative to all substances if the only test for alcohol they give credence to is PEth. One test is not supposed to decide your future it is the collection of tests and history.

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@toolsd

Everything you say is correct. And there is a lot more going on than is here. Check your private messages and give me a shout, I’ll fill you in, and explain what’s going on with the peth test.

Jump to this post

I’d love to join any groups about this issue. I am a liver transplant patient. I had ALF non alcohol related. I have always had a clean PETH and this past year it was 124! Insane! I wouldn’t be able to function if I had that much alcohol in me! When it happened I just thought about it being lab error, but what if I ever need another liver and this is on my record!!!?

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@livermom

I’d love to join any groups about this issue. I am a liver transplant patient. I had ALF non alcohol related. I have always had a clean PETH and this past year it was 124! Insane! I wouldn’t be able to function if I had that much alcohol in me! When it happened I just thought about it being lab error, but what if I ever need another liver and this is on my record!!!?

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The more and more people come forward the better. @toolsd @flyboybray I believe are collecting information about people impacted by this faulty testing method to bring forward.

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I am so sorry that everyone is going through this situation, all based on a flawed test. The HIMS program is IMO a very confusing and punitive program. I also think it's ridiculous that the person being monitored also has to monitor the test collector. What's next? Does he then have to make sure to monitor the test kit was shipped properly, then does he have to go to USDTL and stand over the shoulder of the lab tech and make sure the sample is being analyzed correct? I mean this is insanity. The HIMS people / monitor want the moniteree to take accountability of their sobriety and testing but to what point. Plus what is a person to do if they refuse to take a Peth test because the collector is not doing it correctly? Does that count against you? This all ridiculous.

I came across a very interesting blood collection system that is being used by HemaXis DB10. It removes the potential of the collector screwing up the DBS paper. Attaching a link. See their video at the bottom.

hemaxis.com/products/hemaxis-db10/

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@rocketsparten

I am so sorry that everyone is going through this situation, all based on a flawed test. The HIMS program is IMO a very confusing and punitive program. I also think it's ridiculous that the person being monitored also has to monitor the test collector. What's next? Does he then have to make sure to monitor the test kit was shipped properly, then does he have to go to USDTL and stand over the shoulder of the lab tech and make sure the sample is being analyzed correct? I mean this is insanity. The HIMS people / monitor want the moniteree to take accountability of their sobriety and testing but to what point. Plus what is a person to do if they refuse to take a Peth test because the collector is not doing it correctly? Does that count against you? This all ridiculous.

I came across a very interesting blood collection system that is being used by HemaXis DB10. It removes the potential of the collector screwing up the DBS paper. Attaching a link. See their video at the bottom.

hemaxis.com/products/hemaxis-db10/

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The HIMS program is simply run by amateurs, in every respect. Pilots identified with substance abuse and personality disorders, who embrace the program with eerie enthusiasm become leaders, then act as counselors, doctors and toxicological experts…

The companies let it run wild boasting of ten to one returns on investment.

A number of factors are coming together which is gonna change that. Not the least of which is this ridiculous PETH testing. The amount and ridiculousness of false positives is simply at the point where it cannot be ignored.

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https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-fdas-list-of-toxic-sanitizers-is-surgingnow-at-75-heres-why-2020-07-23
Could be relevant for the recent false positives coming out extremely high.

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Exposure to methanol creates phosphatydalmethanol (spelling).

And the number of false positives is fairly consistent. It’s just that more and more cases are “public”.

I’ve been seeking out leads on false positives for two years now, and see a small increase possibly caused by covid panic, but not a huge increase.

Indeed it seems nurses are about the most prevalent group, and they’ve been immersed in sanitizers for ever…

Like all mishaps, it’s a chain of events. We are just finally discovering all the links of that chain. Extraneous exposure is but one, and not necessary, link in that chain. Extraneous exposure does increase the odds of a false positive though.

However, unlike ETG, PETH is not normally that sensitive. An analytical error and a not well vetted change in assay is what makes it seem so.

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