Other causes of failed PEth test for alcohol abuse?

Posted by gjones1956 @gjones1956, Nov 14, 2017

My daughter undergoes periodic peth testing for alchohol abuse. She fails regularly, although swears she drinks NOTHING. We have reason to believe she is telling the truth. Assuming she is indeed not drinking, is there a physical condition or ailment that might produce positive peth tests? She is 29, has enlarged lymph nodes, some kind of mysterious condition that gives her severe hives, etc. We are wondering if some type of autoinflammation or autoimmune condition might explain elevated levels. Our daughter is FINALLY discussing this with her regular doctor but if it is some unusual condition a specialist will be needed. The reason the peth test is required is due to a nasty custody dispute with lots of allegations of misconduct. I just want to know if there is ANYTHING other than alchohol consumption that can lead to positive test results. Any thoughts or knowledge of cases? Thanks for reading.

Liked by livermom

@spiffy82

@toolsd @flyboybray
In the same position as you two possibly. Been getting PEth(finger prick) tests for over 4 years and just had my first positive ever. I tested at 24ng/mL according to the paperwork from USDTL. I was in complete shock! Within the same day of being notified I went and got tested again: PEth(finger prick) test, Urine ETG and Hair ETG. All three test came back negative. I'm very mindful and experienced, as a donor, in how the test collection is administered, 4+ years of doing this test!

The only thing that has changed for this test was got tested within 2 hours of finishing a trip. I have never gotten tested, by PEth, same day as working. I have seen all the same articles questioning validity of the PEth test vs contamintaion from Ethly Glychol products ie; Hand Sanitizers, disinfectant wipes, etc. I'm being told its impossible to test at a level of 24ng/mL without ingesting it. Times have changed in the past few months with COVID-19. I'm instructed by my employer to use these products (Flight Deck Wipes & Sani-Comm) to clean are workstations. Furthermore when positioning around the system your given Purell Wipes and one time use Purell gel packs. Every public place I go into has Hand Sanitizer. Again instructed to use these from my Employer who gets the imformation and recommendations from the FAA, who cites the CDC in the latest SAFO 20003 publication.

I've been very mindful of what I expose myself to, but at the same time its my responsibility to comply with procedures and guidelines from my employer to protect myself, crew and customers. I know this is going to be an uphill battle. Let me know if either of you need more information.

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Dude…..send me a private message. We need to talk. -BR

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@toolsd

Yes. Would love more information. I’ll send you a private message.

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Another Pilot here in a similar situation. Have not had a sip of alcohol in close to three years and had a positive (274ng/ml!) come back from a finger prick test. Have been under a monitoring program for over two years now and never had a positive. Went and took another blood test (intravenous) 16 days later and it came back negative. Also had a nail-ETG test done 28 days later and it came back negative. Something is wrong, lost my medical, its like a bad dream that wont stop.

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Name Brian…..Private message me to exchange phone numbers.

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@flyboybray

Name Brian…..Private message me to exchange phone numbers.

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@flyboybray You’ll notice that I removed your personal phone number from your message. Mayo Clinic Connect is a public forum. We recommend using the secure private message function to exchange personal contact information.

Great to see two pilots connecting. 🙂

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@colleenyoung

@flyboybray You’ll notice that I removed your personal phone number from your message. Mayo Clinic Connect is a public forum. We recommend using the secure private message function to exchange personal contact information.

Great to see two pilots connecting. 🙂

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Thanks. I realized what I did after and tried to edit it. Guess it didn't work.

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To the moderators: we do appreciate this venue. This one thread has done a ton of good for people from all walks of life. I didn’t find it until about page 5 or later. I am now in touch with most of the contributors over the last two years.

There is a serious problem with peth testing and it’s devastated who knows how many lives and families. Thanks in part to this thread, we are finally making headway and I believe will restore some of the damage done. Thanks!

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Hi all! My husband is a pharmacist, got a DUI in 2014, went to rehab, lost his pharmacy license for a year, and has been doing monthly random drug testing since. His drug testing program swapped to USDTL roughly a year ago and they began PETH testing. He has always had NEGATIVE results until March 2020, with a positive PETH finger prick. He was required to use hand sanitizer prior to entering the facility due to covid. They did not have him wash his hands. The results came back as 127. The hand sanitizer used an ethanol based hand sanitizer, but the USDTL contact aka “the expert” says there is no way this affected his result. We paid the extra $250 for a retest which was also positive and only 54. They let him in the second chance program due to no prior positive tests and now has to randomly test 2x per month costing us $750 a month. Well, today he got a call stating his PETH finger prick was again positive at 52. They refuse to do a nail test saying that a negative nail test (even though it goes back 3 months) will not invalidate the PETH test, even though the previous test was PETH and hair etg, both negative. We now have to pay $800 for a lie detector test. This is absolutely insane. USDTL will not talk to customers, only collection sites. He was just off for the entire week prior to the test, so basically they are telling me that during our staycation with our 3 kids my husband was drinking everyday. Local contacts are not helpful. I am 100% sure my husband is not drinking. His program was ending in August, so I find it convenient that now he is having issues when he has done the 5 years of required testing after rehab and per the board of pharmacy. With a second positive test he is facing losing is pharmacy license and possible rehab again. It is like they want to stress him out so maybe he will drink. The PETH test cannot be accurate. I don’t believe all of these people can have this many false positives. He also knows a guy that has also had 2 false positives with PETH. They are trying to ruin people’s lives.

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@slw2227282

Hi all! My husband is a pharmacist, got a DUI in 2014, went to rehab, lost his pharmacy license for a year, and has been doing monthly random drug testing since. His drug testing program swapped to USDTL roughly a year ago and they began PETH testing. He has always had NEGATIVE results until March 2020, with a positive PETH finger prick. He was required to use hand sanitizer prior to entering the facility due to covid. They did not have him wash his hands. The results came back as 127. The hand sanitizer used an ethanol based hand sanitizer, but the USDTL contact aka “the expert” says there is no way this affected his result. We paid the extra $250 for a retest which was also positive and only 54. They let him in the second chance program due to no prior positive tests and now has to randomly test 2x per month costing us $750 a month. Well, today he got a call stating his PETH finger prick was again positive at 52. They refuse to do a nail test saying that a negative nail test (even though it goes back 3 months) will not invalidate the PETH test, even though the previous test was PETH and hair etg, both negative. We now have to pay $800 for a lie detector test. This is absolutely insane. USDTL will not talk to customers, only collection sites. He was just off for the entire week prior to the test, so basically they are telling me that during our staycation with our 3 kids my husband was drinking everyday. Local contacts are not helpful. I am 100% sure my husband is not drinking. His program was ending in August, so I find it convenient that now he is having issues when he has done the 5 years of required testing after rehab and per the board of pharmacy. With a second positive test he is facing losing is pharmacy license and possible rehab again. It is like they want to stress him out so maybe he will drink. The PETH test cannot be accurate. I don’t believe all of these people can have this many false positives. He also knows a guy that has also had 2 false positives with PETH. They are trying to ruin people’s lives.

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Hello @slw2227282, Welcome to Connect. It's hard to believe how the PETH test can be still be used after so much attention and false positives. Hopefully, something can be done.

@toolsd posted an article that might be helpful in an earlier post and may be able to offer more suggestions or help.

Recently written by Dr Skipper.
https://www.centerforprofessionalrecovery.com/specificity-of-phosphatidylethanol-as-a-marker-for-alcoholic-beverage-consumption/
@mllangan1 aslo shared an article in an earlier post and may have other information or suggestions.

Phosphatidylethanol: The Potential Role in Further Evaluating Low Positive Urinary Ethyl Glucuronide and Ethyl Sulfate Results:
https://cdn.prod-carehubs.net/n1/748e8fe697af5de8/uploads/2020/02/PEth-Article-in-ACER.pdf
@slw2227282 is your husband going to any support meetings where he may be able to talk with other people that had similar experiences?

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@slw2227282

Hi all! My husband is a pharmacist, got a DUI in 2014, went to rehab, lost his pharmacy license for a year, and has been doing monthly random drug testing since. His drug testing program swapped to USDTL roughly a year ago and they began PETH testing. He has always had NEGATIVE results until March 2020, with a positive PETH finger prick. He was required to use hand sanitizer prior to entering the facility due to covid. They did not have him wash his hands. The results came back as 127. The hand sanitizer used an ethanol based hand sanitizer, but the USDTL contact aka “the expert” says there is no way this affected his result. We paid the extra $250 for a retest which was also positive and only 54. They let him in the second chance program due to no prior positive tests and now has to randomly test 2x per month costing us $750 a month. Well, today he got a call stating his PETH finger prick was again positive at 52. They refuse to do a nail test saying that a negative nail test (even though it goes back 3 months) will not invalidate the PETH test, even though the previous test was PETH and hair etg, both negative. We now have to pay $800 for a lie detector test. This is absolutely insane. USDTL will not talk to customers, only collection sites. He was just off for the entire week prior to the test, so basically they are telling me that during our staycation with our 3 kids my husband was drinking everyday. Local contacts are not helpful. I am 100% sure my husband is not drinking. His program was ending in August, so I find it convenient that now he is having issues when he has done the 5 years of required testing after rehab and per the board of pharmacy. With a second positive test he is facing losing is pharmacy license and possible rehab again. It is like they want to stress him out so maybe he will drink. The PETH test cannot be accurate. I don’t believe all of these people can have this many false positives. He also knows a guy that has also had 2 false positives with PETH. They are trying to ruin people’s lives.

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I had to contact a lawyer for my case. I had the same situation zero positives in almost 3 years and had the finger prick test come back 274. Have not had a sip of alcohol in that timeframe. There is a serious issue with this PEth blood spot testing method and am hoping it is brought forward. The lawyer I am working with is actually working with a very similar case as mine with USDTL and the same contact you are most likely referring to.

Liked by slw2227282

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@slw2227282

Hi all! My husband is a pharmacist, got a DUI in 2014, went to rehab, lost his pharmacy license for a year, and has been doing monthly random drug testing since. His drug testing program swapped to USDTL roughly a year ago and they began PETH testing. He has always had NEGATIVE results until March 2020, with a positive PETH finger prick. He was required to use hand sanitizer prior to entering the facility due to covid. They did not have him wash his hands. The results came back as 127. The hand sanitizer used an ethanol based hand sanitizer, but the USDTL contact aka “the expert” says there is no way this affected his result. We paid the extra $250 for a retest which was also positive and only 54. They let him in the second chance program due to no prior positive tests and now has to randomly test 2x per month costing us $750 a month. Well, today he got a call stating his PETH finger prick was again positive at 52. They refuse to do a nail test saying that a negative nail test (even though it goes back 3 months) will not invalidate the PETH test, even though the previous test was PETH and hair etg, both negative. We now have to pay $800 for a lie detector test. This is absolutely insane. USDTL will not talk to customers, only collection sites. He was just off for the entire week prior to the test, so basically they are telling me that during our staycation with our 3 kids my husband was drinking everyday. Local contacts are not helpful. I am 100% sure my husband is not drinking. His program was ending in August, so I find it convenient that now he is having issues when he has done the 5 years of required testing after rehab and per the board of pharmacy. With a second positive test he is facing losing is pharmacy license and possible rehab again. It is like they want to stress him out so maybe he will drink. The PETH test cannot be accurate. I don’t believe all of these people can have this many false positives. He also knows a guy that has also had 2 false positives with PETH. They are trying to ruin people’s lives.

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Join the club. Its a corrupt system and USDTL is the only lab that does peth testing so they have a monopoly on the testing. Its not that peth testing is faulty or not faulty, its that peth testing is too accurate meaning it picks up every little piece of alcohol that you are exposed to, yes even sanitizer. Even breathing in alcohol causes peth. The so called experts say that sanitizer doesn't affect it but they are lying and they know it does. If this test were to be proven ineffective for drug monitoring, they would lose a major cash cow not to mention be hugely liable for peoples lives and careers that were ruined. The more of us that are involved the better.

Liked by slw2227282

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@clearofclouds1234

I had to contact a lawyer for my case. I had the same situation zero positives in almost 3 years and had the finger prick test come back 274. Have not had a sip of alcohol in that timeframe. There is a serious issue with this PEth blood spot testing method and am hoping it is brought forward. The lawyer I am working with is actually working with a very similar case as mine with USDTL and the same contact you are most likely referring to.

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We are also considering a lawyer. I understand some people do not learn their lesson. But many do. He didn’t even test positive when he was forced into rehab. He is not perfect, but he certainly understands the consequences. The profiteers of PETH are predatory. And they still say there are no “false positives.” I am so sorry that you have also been affected and for all of the victims of this scheme.

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@johnbishop

Hello @slw2227282, Welcome to Connect. It's hard to believe how the PETH test can be still be used after so much attention and false positives. Hopefully, something can be done.

@toolsd posted an article that might be helpful in an earlier post and may be able to offer more suggestions or help.

Recently written by Dr Skipper.
https://www.centerforprofessionalrecovery.com/specificity-of-phosphatidylethanol-as-a-marker-for-alcoholic-beverage-consumption/
@mllangan1 aslo shared an article in an earlier post and may have other information or suggestions.

Phosphatidylethanol: The Potential Role in Further Evaluating Low Positive Urinary Ethyl Glucuronide and Ethyl Sulfate Results:
https://cdn.prod-carehubs.net/n1/748e8fe697af5de8/uploads/2020/02/PEth-Article-in-ACER.pdf
@slw2227282 is your husband going to any support meetings where he may be able to talk with other people that had similar experiences?

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He only has the one contact that has divulged they had false positives. His local contact/caseworker just keeps saying the test is only positive through oral ingestion of ethanol. He doesn’t even wear deodorant anymore bc of fear that something he has always used will cause a false positive. He has sent the experts articles and they basically ignore them since the experts say there are no false positives reported.

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@flyboybray

Join the club. Its a corrupt system and USDTL is the only lab that does peth testing so they have a monopoly on the testing. Its not that peth testing is faulty or not faulty, its that peth testing is too accurate meaning it picks up every little piece of alcohol that you are exposed to, yes even sanitizer. Even breathing in alcohol causes peth. The so called experts say that sanitizer doesn't affect it but they are lying and they know it does. If this test were to be proven ineffective for drug monitoring, they would lose a major cash cow not to mention be hugely liable for peoples lives and careers that were ruined. The more of us that are involved the better.

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Yess! The woman at USDTL was rude and said there was nobody at USDTL that would talk to me. Also, why are they doing these hair, nail, urine tests randomly if they give them zero creed when their results are needed to show sobriety if a positive PETH. I also find it coincidental that these “positive” tests were when they only ordered the PETH. When in conjunction with another test, always negative.

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@flyboybray

Join the club. Its a corrupt system and USDTL is the only lab that does peth testing so they have a monopoly on the testing. Its not that peth testing is faulty or not faulty, its that peth testing is too accurate meaning it picks up every little piece of alcohol that you are exposed to, yes even sanitizer. Even breathing in alcohol causes peth. The so called experts say that sanitizer doesn't affect it but they are lying and they know it does. If this test were to be proven ineffective for drug monitoring, they would lose a major cash cow not to mention be hugely liable for peoples lives and careers that were ruined. The more of us that are involved the better.

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USDTL is not the only source of PeTH test. Just the more questionable finger prick ones. I highly suggest you start dual testing at quest/request a test/ labcorp site that uses the Blood drawn version from labcorp. I can provide direct proof from my wife that you can fail the finger prick test from usdtl and pass the labcorp one taken minutes apart (drive time). Something in the fingerpick one is screwy. Read my prior posts for other tips. All this said you are still fighting a highly corrupt system but I would sure farther be doing it with conflicting same day PeTH tests than without.

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@pethmadness

USDTL is not the only source of PeTH test. Just the more questionable finger prick ones. I highly suggest you start dual testing at quest/request a test/ labcorp site that uses the Blood drawn version from labcorp. I can provide direct proof from my wife that you can fail the finger prick test from usdtl and pass the labcorp one taken minutes apart (drive time). Something in the fingerpick one is screwy. Read my prior posts for other tips. All this said you are still fighting a highly corrupt system but I would sure farther be doing it with conflicting same day PeTH tests than without.

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I should also add there is another member of this board that has seen conflicting USDTL tests taken same day at different test sites. I personally do not trust USDTL enough to retest with them same day but you might even consider that too. My best recommendation is the labcorp test. And for anyone that does tests at two places with conflicting results I would appreciate it if you contact me. Would also be interested in re-affirmed results if not drinking. I particularly worry all the hand sanitizer use going on is going to cause lots of problems for a lot of people.

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