Other causes of failed PEth test for alcohol abuse?

Posted by gjones1956 @gjones1956, Nov 14, 2017

My daughter undergoes periodic peth testing for alchohol abuse. She fails regularly, although swears she drinks NOTHING. We have reason to believe she is telling the truth. Assuming she is indeed not drinking, is there a physical condition or ailment that might produce positive peth tests? She is 29, has enlarged lymph nodes, some kind of mysterious condition that gives her severe hives, etc. We are wondering if some type of autoinflammation or autoimmune condition might explain elevated levels. Our daughter is FINALLY discussing this with her regular doctor but if it is some unusual condition a specialist will be needed. The reason the peth test is required is due to a nasty custody dispute with lots of allegations of misconduct. I just want to know if there is ANYTHING other than alchohol consumption that can lead to positive test results. Any thoughts or knowledge of cases? Thanks for reading.

Liked by livermom

Peth level 1126. How is this even possible? Wouldn't I be dead???

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Good question….as far as I know they can go up really high. One thing you might want to do us get somebody to run an assay on your Phospholipase D activity. That’s the enzyme that makes PEth. Some people have hyperactive Phospholipase D which would theoretically account for high PEth levels.

I think there was a 2019 article in a French pathology journal that purported to find that alcohol-based hand sanitizers can dramatically raise PEth over a short-term period. There might be a posting if that article on this thread?

Good luck. Remember it sometimes takes its sweet time, but the Truth eventually comes out. Whoever developed and marketed that test with so many variables and compromising factors not even known — much less investigated — ought to think about something called ETHICS.

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@oledocfarmer

Good question….as far as I know they can go up really high. One thing you might want to do us get somebody to run an assay on your Phospholipase D activity. That’s the enzyme that makes PEth. Some people have hyperactive Phospholipase D which would theoretically account for high PEth levels.

I think there was a 2019 article in a French pathology journal that purported to find that alcohol-based hand sanitizers can dramatically raise PEth over a short-term period. There might be a posting if that article on this thread?

Good luck. Remember it sometimes takes its sweet time, but the Truth eventually comes out. Whoever developed and marketed that test with so many variables and compromising factors not even known — much less investigated — ought to think about something called ETHICS.

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I’m really hoping that’s the case. I keep telling myself that the truth will eventually come to light, but I’m patiently waiting. It’s crazy to think how people can have documented differing results from different methods taken on the same day and still say it’s a 100% accurate test.

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Hey Detroit, give us some details. I don’t know the theoretical maximum, have researched that to no avail.

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i joined this group because I got a 135 on a peth test after three years of "not detected". this was last year 2019. i do not drink. this was terrifying. As a transplant patient, i know that if i am accused of a drinking problem, if i ever needed another liver, this would be AGAINST me. so this year when i went in for my yearly physicals, i made sure that I did not use any soaps with chemicals for over a week before my visit. the day of my visit, i only used soap at the hospital. no purell or other hand sanitizers. I refused the urine samples because they give you an alcohol swab for a clean catch. My peth came back normal… and it looks like they did it again, to make sure?, like they didn't trust it….anyway, it was listed "not detected" and then a few days later came back again as an "updated" "Not detected." I don't know if this will help anyone or not. However here is the lab info that was at the bottom of my 135 test last year: This test was developed and its performance characteristics
determined by LabCorp. It has not been cleared or approved
by the Food and Drug Administration.
Performed at: Medtox 402 West County Road Dr., St. Paul, MN 55112

and this was the info at the bottom of this years 2020 tests.
PEth 16:0/18.1 (POPEth) <10 ng/mL
ng/mL
Originally reported on 08/29/2020 06:28 (Date/Mountain Time).
Reference intervals and/or result interpretation may have changed.
Corrected from Not Detected [NA] on 09/11/20 8:14:19 MDT by 19490.
Performed By: ARUP Laboratories
500 Chipeta Way
Salt Lake City, UT 84108

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Hmmm, so you got a false positive from LabCorp? Those are much more rare, I haven’t really studied them.

I did just review my first lit package from them and noticed they use cow blood for calibration samples. Not sure what to think of that…

Blood fermenting for the purpose of BAC determination is well studied, and can lead to in vitro production of peth. Probably the first thing to check, what methods were used to prevent that?

Do you have the litigation package for your false positive?

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I'm 4.5 years into a 5 yr monitoring program and just got my PEth test back at 85ng! Totally shocked as I have not drank. Had one prior PEth test last year and it was negative. Either it is a problem with the test (USDTL blood dot test) or from extraneous sources (hand sanitizer etc.). Have to meet with program head and I know it is not going to go well. This test is simply not accurate.

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@toolsd

Hmmm, so you got a false positive from LabCorp? Those are much more rare, I haven’t really studied them.

I did just review my first lit package from them and noticed they use cow blood for calibration samples. Not sure what to think of that…

Blood fermenting for the purpose of BAC determination is well studied, and can lead to in vitro production of peth. Probably the first thing to check, what methods were used to prevent that?

Do you have the litigation package for your false positive?

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Hey, can you explain the 'blood fermenting leading to in vitro production of peth'? Or a link to an article about it. Appreciate all you are doing.

Liked by kkb44

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@shocked44

Hey, can you explain the 'blood fermenting leading to in vitro production of peth'? Or a link to an article about it. Appreciate all you are doing.

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Yes. Sent you a PM. Call me.

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Just wondering if anyone has had any successes or found any new info since this thread has been going for a couple of years.
My husband is under a Wellness contract and has urine tested about every 10 days to 2 weeks. He also got a liver transplant about 18 months ago and has labwork done about once a month as a follow up from that. Every urine test has been clear, and while the doctor's labs don't specifically test for alcohol, biomarkers that could indicate alcohol use (GGT and MCV) have also always been in range. In October he got a low positive peTH (32) and he was retested by the same lab and got another low positive (60). He has been totally abstinent. He went to a different lab to have a voluntary hair test, and had his hospital do their own peTH and we're waiting on results. We're wracking our brains for a cause of this. Two ideas have emerged – 1. is that he's in healthcare and sanitizes his hands, using a liquid that mists, about 3 times per HOUR. When COVID started and there was a run on sanitizer his office switched suppliers and we realize now that the new one is ethanol based. It was on his skin and in the air constantly. Second thought is that I see now that his finger shouldn't touch the card. In both the test and retest he said the lab tech had him touch his finger to the card rather than let the blood drop.
I have done HOURS and HOURS of research on this topic. It's ridiculous that we could have 20+ tests that prove abstinence and one questionable test can turn lives upside down.

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@kkb44

Just wondering if anyone has had any successes or found any new info since this thread has been going for a couple of years.
My husband is under a Wellness contract and has urine tested about every 10 days to 2 weeks. He also got a liver transplant about 18 months ago and has labwork done about once a month as a follow up from that. Every urine test has been clear, and while the doctor's labs don't specifically test for alcohol, biomarkers that could indicate alcohol use (GGT and MCV) have also always been in range. In October he got a low positive peTH (32) and he was retested by the same lab and got another low positive (60). He has been totally abstinent. He went to a different lab to have a voluntary hair test, and had his hospital do their own peTH and we're waiting on results. We're wracking our brains for a cause of this. Two ideas have emerged – 1. is that he's in healthcare and sanitizes his hands, using a liquid that mists, about 3 times per HOUR. When COVID started and there was a run on sanitizer his office switched suppliers and we realize now that the new one is ethanol based. It was on his skin and in the air constantly. Second thought is that I see now that his finger shouldn't touch the card. In both the test and retest he said the lab tech had him touch his finger to the card rather than let the blood drop.
I have done HOURS and HOURS of research on this topic. It's ridiculous that we could have 20+ tests that prove abstinence and one questionable test can turn lives upside down.

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Hello @kkb44, Welcome to Mayo Clinic Connect. I think you are correct about the ethanol based hand sanitizers affecting the PEth test results. @toolsd and other members in the discussion I'm sure will be able to offer suggestions. Here is some information I found from January 2020 and one from 2019 that talk about the test.

Specificity of Phosphatidylethanol as a Marker for Alcoholic Beverage Consumption: https://www.centerforprofessionalrecovery.com/specificity-of-phosphatidylethanol-as-a-marker-for-alcoholic-beverage-consumption/

“Doctor, I do not understand the results of the test, because I swear I am not drinking alcohol.” Truth or lie?: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S235200781930099X
Excerpt from the above article – "Conclusion – An abnormal elevation of PEth concentration in blood was observed after using ethanolic solution for hand cleaning. Thus, ethyl alcohol disinfection have to be avoid before blood sampling for DBS. If not, a rapid formation of PEth could happen during blood sampling, involving a risk of erroneous interpretation concerning alcohol consumption."

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I sent you a private message, give me a call.

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Ethyl alcohol sanitizer absolutely causes false positive peth. My number was 28ng. Very low. Breathing it also causes peth. Stay away from it moving forward. That's what happened to me. They said that hand sanitizer was safe. It obviously isn't. I've been out of work since April cuz of this crap.

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@flyboybray

Ethyl alcohol sanitizer absolutely causes false positive peth. My number was 28ng. Very low. Breathing it also causes peth. Stay away from it moving forward. That's what happened to me. They said that hand sanitizer was safe. It obviously isn't. I've been out of work since April cuz of this crap.

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That's what we were afraid of! My husband wasn't just rubbing the gel on his hands, he has a mister thing that you wave your hand in front of and it sprays out a mist of the stuff. And his whole office used it, so not only was it misting in his face 20+ times a day from his own use, but I'm sure he walked through it sometimes when his staff used it.

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I’m sorry you have been dragged into this mess that is the PEth DBS test. Get with @toolsd as he is creating a list and we are all working together and actually doing something to fight this. My advice is to get as many subsequent tests: nail, blood (intravenous) and hair that will fall in that timeline that supports the abstinence. That’s what I did and had all come back negative. Working with lawyers and toxicologists currently and dealing with the FAA to get my medical back due to this false test.

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