Osteoporosis

Posted by grandmabubblestwin @grandmabubblestwin, Nov 11, 2016

I’ve been reading about osteoporosis and this is what I’ve seen so far: An individual builds bone until about age 30 then they begin to lose bone. Osteo meds do not help you build bone, they may actually prevent the natural bone building process but they do help you retain the bone you have but can make bone brittle. Correct?

Liked by jo54, lioness, Leonard

@lisalucier

Hello, @doverbey – sounds like you've taken a constructive approach to your new diagnosis of osteoporosis with the new diet and exercise regimen. Glad to hear the discussions on Mayo Clinic Connect have encouraged you along that path.

Hoping that other members here like @contentandwell @dazlin @lioness @dazlin @maryfrommissouri will have some input for you on what would be a good result of a computed tomography X-Ray (CTX) test right now, as you are trying to get one to have some comparison at 6 months from now.

How are you feeling with the lifestyle changes you've made so far, doverbey? What prompted you to go the non-medication route for your osteoporosis?

Jump to this post

@doverbey Id like to add my welcome to you . Thanks Lisa . We are a caring supportive group who try to help if we can . I too have osteoporosis. Even though Im a retired nurse and have seen what some meds can so to people I have gone and take all naturel alternatives as they where here before chemicals . I started about 6 months ago to add more calcium my Dr. told me Caltrate was the best of 1200 mg split the dose to 6 ,6 then Vit D3, also Vit K both 1@both forms of 2 You can do your own research on them. ALso magnesium the bones need minerals that is what you can get a lot from food by some you need a supplement . I take Boron also it is a mineral . ALso like you said exercise not the strenuous kind but a lot of stretching and weight lifting not supper but this is important for osteo. also. This is my regimen .. A lady on here is also on this regiment and will have her bone density done soon Am waiting to hear how hers has helped. Good luck and keep us posted we care here and if you just want to talk we are here to listen also.

REPLY
@lisalucier

Hello, @doverbey – sounds like you've taken a constructive approach to your new diagnosis of osteoporosis with the new diet and exercise regimen. Glad to hear the discussions on Mayo Clinic Connect have encouraged you along that path.

Hoping that other members here like @contentandwell @dazlin @lioness @dazlin @maryfrommissouri will have some input for you on what would be a good result of a computed tomography X-Ray (CTX) test right now, as you are trying to get one to have some comparison at 6 months from now.

How are you feeling with the lifestyle changes you've made so far, doverbey? What prompted you to go the non-medication route for your osteoporosis?

Jump to this post

I am feeling great about the changes I've made to diet, supplements, and exercise. From the hours of research I have now devoted to this, I feel confident that I can at least hold the line on progression. I also consulted with a nutritionist and went to a compounding pharmacist which made the cocktail of supplements SO MUCH easier to figure out. In all the discussions here about which supplements and how to mix and match, I was overwhelmed. I STRONGLY RECOMMEND, if there is an accredited compounding pharmacy near others who are trying to figure this out, to consult with them. That was a very well spent two hours. I had never even heard of this until the nutritionist suggested that pharmacy.

The drugs sounded way too aggressive, fraught with possible side effects, and questionable results. I have a regular MD (and now an Endocrinologist) but I have always felt that one needs a "buyer beware" perspective when it comes to medical advice. I am in excellent health other than this diagnosis. Retrospectively, I can easily see how this happened in terms of my diet (generally good but not good enough) and exercise (not enough and not the right types for osteo).

I am really very grateful for this community which is where I have learned the most.

REPLY
@doverbey

I am feeling great about the changes I've made to diet, supplements, and exercise. From the hours of research I have now devoted to this, I feel confident that I can at least hold the line on progression. I also consulted with a nutritionist and went to a compounding pharmacist which made the cocktail of supplements SO MUCH easier to figure out. In all the discussions here about which supplements and how to mix and match, I was overwhelmed. I STRONGLY RECOMMEND, if there is an accredited compounding pharmacy near others who are trying to figure this out, to consult with them. That was a very well spent two hours. I had never even heard of this until the nutritionist suggested that pharmacy.

The drugs sounded way too aggressive, fraught with possible side effects, and questionable results. I have a regular MD (and now an Endocrinologist) but I have always felt that one needs a "buyer beware" perspective when it comes to medical advice. I am in excellent health other than this diagnosis. Retrospectively, I can easily see how this happened in terms of my diet (generally good but not good enough) and exercise (not enough and not the right types for osteo).

I am really very grateful for this community which is where I have learned the most.

Jump to this post

@doverbey
Hello,

A Compounding pharmacy is an excellent idea also for any type of RX drug. I use a compounded bone and joint formula along with an anti inflammatory formula. These pharmacies are generally cheaper too. While we all do our research on vitamins I think we may be taking too many. Some may be inhibiting the effectiveness of others. Interactions with foods is a big concern. Foods high in oxalates for example, decrease the absorption of calcium into the body.

It’s a delicate balancing act that practioners devoted to nutrition are still learning about. At least we can all agree that diet and exercise have to be part of our goal. My concern is that so many people I personally know are just popping a plethora of vitamins, usually the least expensive or “house” brand, or relying on Amazon reviews. That money would be better spent buying the right foods.

If everyone were as concerned about good health as the people here on the Mayo forum are, the obesity epidemic in this country would diminish along with a host of the contributing diseases and illnesses.

I’m going off target here. Okay everyone, get off the computer and go take a walk😉

FL Mary

REPLY

I believe I am in the minority here but how can anyone possibly think that they no more than a doctor who has studied medicine for 9+ years as well as thousands of hours of research? Every medication has possible side effects but they are known. A concoction made by a pharmacist & recommended by a nutritionist (with a combined 4 years of study) without known side effects is playing with your life. 🙂

REPLY

@jmweissler
Hi,

My husband got his Pharmacy degree back in the 1960s and , at that time, pharmacy school was 5 years. He went on to earn a PhD in marine biology,
however. I knew many pharmacy students and how tough pharmacy school was and not everyone could qualify or stay the course.

Pharmacists today are required to have a PharmD or doctorate in pharmacy equivalent to 6 years of study. Pharmacists have the pharmacological knowledge of drugs that Doctors do not have but Doctors are the ones who prescribe these drugs. Pharmacy school is difficult and challenging. Students are taught Biochemistry, Molecular Biology, Physiology, Genetics, Cell structure, Disease Neurobiology, Drug design and Delivery etc. They have an in depth knowledge of the chemistry of drugs that Doctors just don’t have. So many pharmacists go on to medical school They have to pass the same types of test to get into Pharmacy school that potential Doctors do to get into Medical School.

Doctors do research on diseases and illnesses for their patients with knowledge based on years of study and experience …..Pharmacists do research on the chemistry of drugs, how they interact with other drugs, how they are delivered into the system…..thousands of hours and abstracts written on the efficiency of these drugs and their impact on the human body. So yes……I would recommend a knowledgeable educated pharmacist to talk to about any medication. They can assess your health background and issues and advise. Even Nurse Practioners know more about drug chemistry.

So we can’t have one without the other. Pharmacists are not just pill pushers. I think a nutritionist is a good start because food is our best medicine.

FL Mary

Liked by lioness, Leonard

REPLY

@imallears I loved your analysis of a pharmacist versus Dr,s on medicine I always check with my pharmacist if there is a interaction between what I'm on to a new drug the Dr prescribed she catches it and calls the Dr We do need both plus your own research on supplements

Liked by Leonard, Leonard

REPLY
@doverbey

I was recently diagnosed with osteoporosis in the lumbar region, L1-L4. I have refused all the medications and started on a new diet and exercise regimen, thanks in big part to the discussions here. I requested a current CTX test for comparison purposes in 6 months. I can't find what might be a "good" result right now, or is this score only useful as a baseline?

Jump to this post

@doverbey @lisalucier Is a CTX test the same as a DEXA scan? If not I am not familiar with what it is. If you are having a second DEXA I know you should try to have it on the same machine because the machines can vary, even at the same facility.

I did have osteopenia but it has progressed to osteoporosis and will probably continue to get worse due to having to take prednisone, maybe for the rest of my life. With that being a large part of my problem, I do not think that dietary changes would be enough to compensate so I plan to start on one of the medications after April. Every drug has side effects and I have been told that the risk of them from the osteoporosis drugs is around 1 in 10,000. I know many women on these drugs who have had no problems at all.
For DEXA scans I have read that bone rebuilding is a very slow process so you would not see much improvement in six months, you need to wait a year.
What do your doctors think about you attacking the problem with just diet modifications? Do they feel that will be sufficient to keep your osteoporosis from progressing?
Strength building exercises are very important too of course. I generally go to the gym at my health club three times a week, alternating with the pool.
JK

REPLY
@jmweissler

I believe I am in the minority here but how can anyone possibly think that they no more than a doctor who has studied medicine for 9+ years as well as thousands of hours of research? Every medication has possible side effects but they are known. A concoction made by a pharmacist & recommended by a nutritionist (with a combined 4 years of study) without known side effects is playing with your life. 🙂

Jump to this post

Oh My Aching Back…. I, for one, know that I am more informed than my doctors about osteoporosis as well as my gut, and my doctors tell me this all the time! Almost all the doctors know to do is prescribe bisphosphonates and other "bone building" drugs – but they don't understand how they work. And they really don't know about nutrition. I have been to countless doctors about osteoporosis – endocrinologists, internists, spine surgeons – you name it, I've been there. There IS a lot to learn about nutrition – I have always been a student of how the human body works and nutrition, and I have a graduate degree in psychology and social work. I worked decades with scientists and medical doctors, even the chief of surgery in a big-city teaching hospital. I have made a point to study the bones in our bodies and nutrition, and I also healed my own gut. I read medical journals like most people read romance novels. Five years ago I was dying – literally dying – because of drugs I was prescribed and the horrible side effects they caused me. I still have to take those drugs, but I had to take myself completely off sugar and heal my gut. I begged my doctors to help me and got no help, and this caused me to be house-bound for over three years, suffering in the worst pain. I got so sick I got to the point of considering suicide. At the last minute, I had an epiphany that paid off. I knew what was wrong with my body, and that's when I went off sugar and changed my life. I developed candida overgrowth because of a low-dose steroid I have to take for adrenal insufficiency. My doctors are in awe of me – and now they take notes when I come in. Since going off sugar, the precancerous cells in my gut are gone! This is not the first time I had to figure out what was wrong with my body and turn things around. Doctors have HUGE caseloads – there is NO WAY they can stay on top of all the research being done in multiple systems in the body as well as nutrition. I have posted this website before, but here it is again: http://www.ConsumerLab.com. ConsumerLab tests supplements to be sure they are what they say they are, they open in the body, and they are the strength they say they are. Twice I have found that something I am taking has too much lead in it thanks to ConsumerLab.com. They also post so many medical journal submissions about various vitamins, minerals, and herbs. I have studied the human body for decades, and I have concentrated on osteoporosis almost exclusively for the past two or three years. One thing no doctor will tell you that will help your body tremendously is to stop eating all forms of sugar. Sugar causes inflammation and inflammation causes disease. Sugar is very bad for your bones. Certain nutrients and minerals are necessary for bone growth and these are pretty much undisputed: Calcium, magnesium, potassium, boron, Vitamin D3, Vitamin K2 (mk4 mk7). Probiotics, a good vitamin C (not ascorbic acid), a good multivitamin, B complex, Omega 3 also help. Every time you eat, you are making a choice to either support your body or hurt your body. Of course you should check with your doctor before you change anything. Talk to a nutritionist. A good functional doctor and a good nutritionist will help you a lot. I also take advantage of a great support group on Facebook (the group is called Osteoporosis Natural Remedies). My bookshelf is nearly collapsing under the weight of all the nutrition books and medical books. My pharmacist and doctors have a complete list of everything I am taking. All of this information is out there if you choose to become informed. I realize it is not for everyone. I have very complex medical issues, and my quality of life has been greatly improved since I took over. I run everything by my infectious disease doctor who is the best doctor I have ever found. She knows a lot about supplements and medicines. When I was diagnosed with Myasthenia Gravis, a nurse once tried to hang a bag of magnesium for IV – this is death to a person with MG. You need to. become informed. As always, please run everything by your doctor before making changes. I'm not even going to bring up anti-nutrients in this post.

REPLY
@parrotqueen

Oh My Aching Back…. I, for one, know that I am more informed than my doctors about osteoporosis as well as my gut, and my doctors tell me this all the time! Almost all the doctors know to do is prescribe bisphosphonates and other "bone building" drugs – but they don't understand how they work. And they really don't know about nutrition. I have been to countless doctors about osteoporosis – endocrinologists, internists, spine surgeons – you name it, I've been there. There IS a lot to learn about nutrition – I have always been a student of how the human body works and nutrition, and I have a graduate degree in psychology and social work. I worked decades with scientists and medical doctors, even the chief of surgery in a big-city teaching hospital. I have made a point to study the bones in our bodies and nutrition, and I also healed my own gut. I read medical journals like most people read romance novels. Five years ago I was dying – literally dying – because of drugs I was prescribed and the horrible side effects they caused me. I still have to take those drugs, but I had to take myself completely off sugar and heal my gut. I begged my doctors to help me and got no help, and this caused me to be house-bound for over three years, suffering in the worst pain. I got so sick I got to the point of considering suicide. At the last minute, I had an epiphany that paid off. I knew what was wrong with my body, and that's when I went off sugar and changed my life. I developed candida overgrowth because of a low-dose steroid I have to take for adrenal insufficiency. My doctors are in awe of me – and now they take notes when I come in. Since going off sugar, the precancerous cells in my gut are gone! This is not the first time I had to figure out what was wrong with my body and turn things around. Doctors have HUGE caseloads – there is NO WAY they can stay on top of all the research being done in multiple systems in the body as well as nutrition. I have posted this website before, but here it is again: http://www.ConsumerLab.com. ConsumerLab tests supplements to be sure they are what they say they are, they open in the body, and they are the strength they say they are. Twice I have found that something I am taking has too much lead in it thanks to ConsumerLab.com. They also post so many medical journal submissions about various vitamins, minerals, and herbs. I have studied the human body for decades, and I have concentrated on osteoporosis almost exclusively for the past two or three years. One thing no doctor will tell you that will help your body tremendously is to stop eating all forms of sugar. Sugar causes inflammation and inflammation causes disease. Sugar is very bad for your bones. Certain nutrients and minerals are necessary for bone growth and these are pretty much undisputed: Calcium, magnesium, potassium, boron, Vitamin D3, Vitamin K2 (mk4 mk7). Probiotics, a good vitamin C (not ascorbic acid), a good multivitamin, B complex, Omega 3 also help. Every time you eat, you are making a choice to either support your body or hurt your body. Of course you should check with your doctor before you change anything. Talk to a nutritionist. A good functional doctor and a good nutritionist will help you a lot. I also take advantage of a great support group on Facebook (the group is called Osteoporosis Natural Remedies). My bookshelf is nearly collapsing under the weight of all the nutrition books and medical books. My pharmacist and doctors have a complete list of everything I am taking. All of this information is out there if you choose to become informed. I realize it is not for everyone. I have very complex medical issues, and my quality of life has been greatly improved since I took over. I run everything by my infectious disease doctor who is the best doctor I have ever found. She knows a lot about supplements and medicines. When I was diagnosed with Myasthenia Gravis, a nurse once tried to hang a bag of magnesium for IV – this is death to a person with MG. You need to. become informed. As always, please run everything by your doctor before making changes. I'm not even going to bring up anti-nutrients in this post.

Jump to this post

Great information! Thank you!

REPLY
@parrotqueen

Oh My Aching Back…. I, for one, know that I am more informed than my doctors about osteoporosis as well as my gut, and my doctors tell me this all the time! Almost all the doctors know to do is prescribe bisphosphonates and other "bone building" drugs – but they don't understand how they work. And they really don't know about nutrition. I have been to countless doctors about osteoporosis – endocrinologists, internists, spine surgeons – you name it, I've been there. There IS a lot to learn about nutrition – I have always been a student of how the human body works and nutrition, and I have a graduate degree in psychology and social work. I worked decades with scientists and medical doctors, even the chief of surgery in a big-city teaching hospital. I have made a point to study the bones in our bodies and nutrition, and I also healed my own gut. I read medical journals like most people read romance novels. Five years ago I was dying – literally dying – because of drugs I was prescribed and the horrible side effects they caused me. I still have to take those drugs, but I had to take myself completely off sugar and heal my gut. I begged my doctors to help me and got no help, and this caused me to be house-bound for over three years, suffering in the worst pain. I got so sick I got to the point of considering suicide. At the last minute, I had an epiphany that paid off. I knew what was wrong with my body, and that's when I went off sugar and changed my life. I developed candida overgrowth because of a low-dose steroid I have to take for adrenal insufficiency. My doctors are in awe of me – and now they take notes when I come in. Since going off sugar, the precancerous cells in my gut are gone! This is not the first time I had to figure out what was wrong with my body and turn things around. Doctors have HUGE caseloads – there is NO WAY they can stay on top of all the research being done in multiple systems in the body as well as nutrition. I have posted this website before, but here it is again: http://www.ConsumerLab.com. ConsumerLab tests supplements to be sure they are what they say they are, they open in the body, and they are the strength they say they are. Twice I have found that something I am taking has too much lead in it thanks to ConsumerLab.com. They also post so many medical journal submissions about various vitamins, minerals, and herbs. I have studied the human body for decades, and I have concentrated on osteoporosis almost exclusively for the past two or three years. One thing no doctor will tell you that will help your body tremendously is to stop eating all forms of sugar. Sugar causes inflammation and inflammation causes disease. Sugar is very bad for your bones. Certain nutrients and minerals are necessary for bone growth and these are pretty much undisputed: Calcium, magnesium, potassium, boron, Vitamin D3, Vitamin K2 (mk4 mk7). Probiotics, a good vitamin C (not ascorbic acid), a good multivitamin, B complex, Omega 3 also help. Every time you eat, you are making a choice to either support your body or hurt your body. Of course you should check with your doctor before you change anything. Talk to a nutritionist. A good functional doctor and a good nutritionist will help you a lot. I also take advantage of a great support group on Facebook (the group is called Osteoporosis Natural Remedies). My bookshelf is nearly collapsing under the weight of all the nutrition books and medical books. My pharmacist and doctors have a complete list of everything I am taking. All of this information is out there if you choose to become informed. I realize it is not for everyone. I have very complex medical issues, and my quality of life has been greatly improved since I took over. I run everything by my infectious disease doctor who is the best doctor I have ever found. She knows a lot about supplements and medicines. When I was diagnosed with Myasthenia Gravis, a nurse once tried to hang a bag of magnesium for IV – this is death to a person with MG. You need to. become informed. As always, please run everything by your doctor before making changes. I'm not even going to bring up anti-nutrients in this post.

Jump to this post

Are you currently taking a bone building drug?

REPLY
@contentandwell

@doverbey @lisalucier Is a CTX test the same as a DEXA scan? If not I am not familiar with what it is. If you are having a second DEXA I know you should try to have it on the same machine because the machines can vary, even at the same facility.

I did have osteopenia but it has progressed to osteoporosis and will probably continue to get worse due to having to take prednisone, maybe for the rest of my life. With that being a large part of my problem, I do not think that dietary changes would be enough to compensate so I plan to start on one of the medications after April. Every drug has side effects and I have been told that the risk of them from the osteoporosis drugs is around 1 in 10,000. I know many women on these drugs who have had no problems at all.
For DEXA scans I have read that bone rebuilding is a very slow process so you would not see much improvement in six months, you need to wait a year.
What do your doctors think about you attacking the problem with just diet modifications? Do they feel that will be sufficient to keep your osteoporosis from progressing?
Strength building exercises are very important too of course. I generally go to the gym at my health club three times a week, alternating with the pool.
JK

Jump to this post

REPLY

@contentandwell CTX is a blood test used for measuring bone formation and resorption (https://www.mayocliniclabs.com/test-catalog/Clinical+and+Interpretive/83175) My understanding is that it's often used to measure effectiveness of the osteo drugs without waiting so long before a DEXA might show what's happening. That's my intention in getting the first one as a baseline and then check it again in 6 months to see if there is any difference in those results. And then pay for another DEXA in a year (since my insurance will only pay every two years).

REPLY
@doverbey

@contentandwell CTX is a blood test used for measuring bone formation and resorption (https://www.mayocliniclabs.com/test-catalog/Clinical+and+Interpretive/83175) My understanding is that it's often used to measure effectiveness of the osteo drugs without waiting so long before a DEXA might show what's happening. That's my intention in getting the first one as a baseline and then check it again in 6 months to see if there is any difference in those results. And then pay for another DEXA in a year (since my insurance will only pay every two years).

Jump to this post

@doverbey, I don't think I have welcomed you to Connect yet. So…..let's start with "Hi there." I am very interested in your introduction to the manner in which we can get an idea of how our selected medication is performing. CTX….and the idea of formation and resorption are important. Thank you.
May you find some joy today.
Chris

REPLY
@doverbey

@contentandwell CTX is a blood test used for measuring bone formation and resorption (https://www.mayocliniclabs.com/test-catalog/Clinical+and+Interpretive/83175) My understanding is that it's often used to measure effectiveness of the osteo drugs without waiting so long before a DEXA might show what's happening. That's my intention in getting the first one as a baseline and then check it again in 6 months to see if there is any difference in those results. And then pay for another DEXA in a year (since my insurance will only pay every two years).

Jump to this post

@doverbey in your case it will be checking the effectiveness of your diet though, right? That should be interesting. I wonder if many doctors do it since I’ve not heard of it before.
Are you taking supplements, and which vitamins? I e seen boron recommended but the pharmacy at Mass General Hospital told me that can be toxic at some levels so it’s not something they recommend at all.
JK

REPLY
@contentandwell

@doverbey in your case it will be checking the effectiveness of your diet though, right? That should be interesting. I wonder if many doctors do it since I’ve not heard of it before.
Are you taking supplements, and which vitamins? I e seen boron recommended but the pharmacy at Mass General Hospital told me that can be toxic at some levels so it’s not something they recommend at all.
JK

Jump to this post

People post their improved DEXA scan scores all the time on the Facebook Osteoporosis Natural Remedies group! A lady posted a greatly improved DEXA scan score over the weekend – and all she did was change her diet, take a few supplements, and exercised once a week. I will be posting my score when I do my test in April or so. If you look for that group on Facebook – be aware there is another similar group called Osteoporosis Natural and Rx Remedies (or something to that effect). You will know you are at the group I'm in if you see a cup of tea as the main photo. I encourage people to check that group out because sometimes people post amazing things there – videos, medical journal submissions, etc. There is a nutritionist that hangs out. Lots of good information.

Liked by lioness

REPLY
Please login or register to post a reply.