Less vaccine protection leading to a false sense of security

Posted by bosco17 @bosco17, Mar 21 11:17am

If Im immunocompromised its obvious that I wont get the same protection. Could this lead to a false sense of protection leading to Covid infection??

@bosco17 I think if people are aware that the protection the vaccine is giving them is less due to their being on immunosuppressants then they hopefully will not get a false sense of protection. It's important that immunocompromised people are aware of that. I plan to have an antibody test myself. The study results released by Johns Hopkins at this point are after one shot. I had my second shot over a month ago so I am hoping that my response has improved over what they saw in the study after the first shot.

I think the bigger danger lies in them seeing others finally able to do more and then they too will follow along. I am dealing with that myself right now. It's very discouraging but from what I have heard, for us to be somewhat safe we need to wait until more people are vaccinated, preferably until we reach "herd immunity", if that is possible. Hopefully, those who have vaccine hesitancy will finally realize that they don't need to be concerned and choose to get a vaccine, protecting themselves and contributing to protecting others.

Here is a link to an article about some of the myths surrounding the vaccine for those who have "vaccine hesitancy" for whatever reasons. I think it really explains the inaccuracy of these myths that have been propagated by a small group of people for whatever reason. I put this in another response a day or two ago in a conversation about the vaccine. I think it answers pretty much all of the questions and concerns that people have.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/five-myths/five-myths-about-coronavirus-vaccines/2021/03/19/0f186f8e-881f-11eb-82bc-e58213caa38e_story.html
Have you gotten the vaccine yet?
JK

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@bosco17 Good question that you have raised. I am immunocompromised due to health conditions. This is different from those who may be immunosuppressed due to medications for transplants anti-rejection medications and such.

We have been told those whose natural immune system is compromised or suppressed, will have less efficacy after vaccination, no matter the brand of vaccine. In my simple opinion, any increase in protection is better than none! No, I do not take my issues for granted, nor do I take my precautions for granted. I have had both doses of vaccine, but will continue to practice safe distancing, masking, hand cleanliness as I have done for the last year. Will I ever go back to the old way of not being so vigilant? Probably not. We always were careful [my husband is a kidney recipient], so our routine now is simply an upgrade.

The false sense of protection you speak about may be others assuming you have full immunity if you are fully vaccinated. It's up to you to educate them, and decide how you want to interact. I hope this makes sense to you? How are you immunocompromised?
Ginger

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This also begs the question of transplant patients level of immunity from other vaccines as well. Does anyone know if the efficacy for influenza and shingles immunization is reduced for us at a similar percentage as the covid vaccine?

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I glanced at your thread and have to chime in. I have long thought that Tacrolimus might have therapeutic uses for covid 19. I am a healthy three year Liver transplant recipient. I worked rapidly to get back in shape after the surgery. Because of my life style I can not retain from being in public ect. I wear a mask and distance most times, And now there's this….
For info. Transplant Review August 14, 2020
Title- Transplant Drugs against Sars, Mers, and Covid 19.

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@estrada53

This also begs the question of transplant patients level of immunity from other vaccines as well. Does anyone know if the efficacy for influenza and shingles immunization is reduced for us at a similar percentage as the covid vaccine?

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@estrada53 Hi Ellen I can add to that question also, in that I have been faithful to get the Flu shot every year but maybe the sole reason I haven't caught the Flu for at least 3 years the extra caution I use every day since transplant. Im still a term believer that Masks during flu season, hand washing, and covering your cough/sneeze all the basics we were taught growing up probably has more to do with our good health that anything. Ever since my transplant anyone who knows me like Church, Family and friends are always quick to let me know if there not feeling well. So I wonder now also on any vaccine and it's level of protection.
Have a Blessed Day
Dana

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I recently received my results from the John Hopkins study and I have antibodies. I have had additional antibody testing levels done at my own expense just as piece of mind. My husband also had his antibodies checked after his second shot. We are both past the 10-14 days so according to the CDC we are fully vaccinated. I had Pfizer and my husband had moderna. I actually had more antibodies than my husband who is in perfect health and only takes a multivitamin. Our second shots were 2 days apart and we are well over a month out. So I found that interesting considering the hypothesis that I would create fewer antibodies because of all my immunosuppressive meds (I am on several for transplant, PSC and Crohn’s disease.) Just wanted to share my experiences so far.

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That's great news for you and your husband and harbors positive results for the rest of us. Thank you for sharing!

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@luckonetj

I glanced at your thread and have to chime in. I have long thought that Tacrolimus might have therapeutic uses for covid 19. I am a healthy three year Liver transplant recipient. I worked rapidly to get back in shape after the surgery. Because of my life style I can not retain from being in public ect. I wear a mask and distance most times, And now there's this….
For info. Transplant Review August 14, 2020
Title- Transplant Drugs against Sars, Mers, and Covid 19.

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@luckonetj -as a Member on Mayo Connect you are welcome to participate in any discussion. Remember that we learn from each other as we share our patient experiences.

Congratulations on your successful comeback after your surgery. You are one determined individual whose hard work and determination can serve to encourage others who could be struggling with their own comeback now. What do you think has been your biggest struggle and victory in getting back in shape?

Do you have a link from a reliable source to the article that you mention?

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@teresatopeka

I recently received my results from the John Hopkins study and I have antibodies. I have had additional antibody testing levels done at my own expense just as piece of mind. My husband also had his antibodies checked after his second shot. We are both past the 10-14 days so according to the CDC we are fully vaccinated. I had Pfizer and my husband had moderna. I actually had more antibodies than my husband who is in perfect health and only takes a multivitamin. Our second shots were 2 days apart and we are well over a month out. So I found that interesting considering the hypothesis that I would create fewer antibodies because of all my immunosuppressive meds (I am on several for transplant, PSC and Crohn’s disease.) Just wanted to share my experiences so far.

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@teresatopka Great news! Do you have the full level of protection – 94-95%?

Has there been any idea if the immunosuppressant that you are taking affects the level of protection? I know most liver transplant patients are on tacrolimus but since that was bothering my kidneys I am on sirolimus.
JK

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Remember, that even fully vaccinated, you can silently have Covid, without symptoms. Last week my daughter, a school nurse, had to notify 2 fully vaccinated staff members that they tested positive for asymptomatic Covid. For that reason, the CDC recommends that even fully vaccinated individuals continue to mask and socially distance in public settings, and continue handwashing. I am in a community of fully-vaccinated seniors right now, and while we "hang out" in small groups outdoors without masks, we wear them in each other's homes, in the car, and in public places like the grocery store. Nearly everyone around here does so as well, even though it is not mandated by the governor.
sue

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@bosco17– GOod morning. I think that there might be two things going on that are contributing to a sense of protection. I need to know what you mean by less vaccine protection. Are you referring to having a smaller dose of a vaccine or that the protection is less than promised or that there are fewer people who have protection?

Protocols that have led to available vaccines have not claimed 100% protection, for anyone! And since many people react to the vaccines so differently that at this early stage in studies, and research there just hasn't been enough time to study what antibody studies really mean for each person. When antibodies are found it might mean that a person was infected with SARS-CoV-2 and their body’s immune system responded to the virus at some point in the past. People develop antibodies when their body’s immune system responds to an infection. These antibodies can be found in the blood of people previously infected whether or not they had signs or symptoms of illness.

When antibody tests fall short (https://www.path.org/articles/what-can-covid-19-antibody-tests-really-tell-us/)

Antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 infection may give some degree of protection against COVID-19. But scientists cannot yet confirm how strong the protection may be or how long it may last. Adding to the uncertainty—some early point-of-care antibody tests delivered a high number of false positives, mistakenly signaling that people had been infected when in fact they had not been infected.

Because there are still many unknowns, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention cautions against using antibody tests to guide important decisions about when people can return to work, school, church, or other gathering spots, or even if you get the virus or not.

That’s disappointing news for those who hoped the antibody tests might point the way to safe reopening.

This present administration has been very transparent about information regarding COIVD-19 and present vaccines. I don't know about you but this sure does make me feel protected- that we know things that are happening, more statistics, and relying on science to lead us. Not everything is known. Research and trials are still going on and I presume that they will for years to come. I think that any sense of false protection does not come from science, trials, or tests, but from influences around us. This false sense of protection could also be hope in disguise.

I'd like to ask you if you have a sense of false protection?

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@contentandwell

@bosco17 I think if people are aware that the protection the vaccine is giving them is less due to their being on immunosuppressants then they hopefully will not get a false sense of protection. It's important that immunocompromised people are aware of that. I plan to have an antibody test myself. The study results released by Johns Hopkins at this point are after one shot. I had my second shot over a month ago so I am hoping that my response has improved over what they saw in the study after the first shot.

I think the bigger danger lies in them seeing others finally able to do more and then they too will follow along. I am dealing with that myself right now. It's very discouraging but from what I have heard, for us to be somewhat safe we need to wait until more people are vaccinated, preferably until we reach "herd immunity", if that is possible. Hopefully, those who have vaccine hesitancy will finally realize that they don't need to be concerned and choose to get a vaccine, protecting themselves and contributing to protecting others.

Here is a link to an article about some of the myths surrounding the vaccine for those who have "vaccine hesitancy" for whatever reasons. I think it really explains the inaccuracy of these myths that have been propagated by a small group of people for whatever reason. I put this in another response a day or two ago in a conversation about the vaccine. I think it answers pretty much all of the questions and concerns that people have.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/five-myths/five-myths-about-coronavirus-vaccines/2021/03/19/0f186f8e-881f-11eb-82bc-e58213caa38e_story.html
Have you gotten the vaccine yet?
JK

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The question should be how does the integration of the two drugs effect you. I read a study yesterday by A transplant peer review journal that seems to suggest that some anti rejection drugs my lessen the severity of covid 19 in transplant patients. 3 out of 8 in the study in Switzerland. The two that were left on anti rejection drugs faired well while the other 5 transplant covid patients were chronic or deceased. That led the doctors to think there is a therapeutic use for the drugs

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