John Hopkins Webinar on transplant recipients and vaccines

Posted by bosco17 @bosco17, Mar 24 6:34am

They said after first shot 17 out of 800+patients had only a minimal antibody reaction .Also being on mycophelonate reduces effect of vaccines.WHATS GOING ON ??????

Here is an interview conducted on July 14, 2021 with Dr Segev.

COVID-19 Vaccines and Immunocompromised People: Fully Vaccinated and Not Protected
After being fully vaccinated, only 50% of people who are immunocompromised show an antibody response to COVID-19.
INTERVIEW BY STEPHANIE DESMON | JULY 14, 2021
https://www.jhsph.edu/covid-19/articles/covid-19-vaccines-and-immunocompromised-people-fully-vaccinated-and-not-protected.html

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@kedwards73

I’m a participant in the Hopkins study. Liver transplant (A1AT) 5 years out, currently just on 2mg daily of Tacro. On first dose of Pfizer vaccine, I developed less than 0.48 (no antibodies). Very disheartening! However, 30 days after second dose, I was just notified I tested positive for antibodies. So delayed response for me!

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Hi @kedwards73,
I am a kidney transplant patient and I would like to participate in the John Hopkins coronavirus vaccine study too! Would you be able to forward the contact information to me for joining?
And Congratulations on your antibodies!! 🙂

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Hi there!
I believe the study is complete and findings published.
That said, I know they have engaged in other studies and might have some other initiative going on?
Their contact info for the vaccine study is: transplantvaccine@jhmi.edu

You can also pay at Labcorp to have testing for antibodies (somewhere around $50, I believe).

Good luck!

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@kedwards73

Hi there!
I believe the study is complete and findings published.
That said, I know they have engaged in other studies and might have some other initiative going on?
Their contact info for the vaccine study is: transplantvaccine@jhmi.edu

You can also pay at Labcorp to have testing for antibodies (somewhere around $50, I believe).

Good luck!

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Thanks so much @kedwards73. I really appreciate all of the information. Does the covid-19 antibodies test show a number or just positive/ negative. If they provide a number, how do you know if it's a low number or good number? Does the test result identify the low/high classification or is there something on the internet that I can use to interpret the result? Thank you again for being so knowledgeable!

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@hello1234

Thanks so much @kedwards73. I really appreciate all of the information. Does the covid-19 antibodies test show a number or just positive/ negative. If they provide a number, how do you know if it's a low number or good number? Does the test result identify the low/high classification or is there something on the internet that I can use to interpret the result? Thank you again for being so knowledgeable!

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While it’s encouraging to have a higher number associated with the Covid test when checking for antibodies, it’s no guarantee of immunity. A positive SARS-CoV-2 spike protein test just shows that your body has been exposed to the Covid-19 virus either though having the virus or by getting the vaccination and is making the appropriate antibodies to recognize it again in the future. But it won’t show the effectiveness or longevity of the antibody protection. Conversely a patient may show a low antibody number but still some immune response if exposed to the virus.

Antibodies are just one part of a complex immune response that is triggered when a person becomes infected with SARS-CoV-2. The presence of antibodies does not mean that they are there at a high enough concentration to provide protection from reinfection. Just as the lack of antibodies does not mean that the immune system is not primed to respond to reinfection.

What is most important is the adaptive immune response. The adaptive immune system is responsible for the long-lasting response. It activates your body’s T and B cells, which learn to recognize specific foreign materials. The T and B cells are the ones that then identify the foreign material months or years after the initial infection or vaccination and generate the antibodies to attack and eliminate the invaders.
Unfortunately testing the body’s T and B cells for Covid antibodies is difficult.

If I remember correctly, you had a low or zero score after your last SARS-CoV-2 test. Are you considering having another test run just to see if your numbers are up?

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@loribmt

While it’s encouraging to have a higher number associated with the Covid test when checking for antibodies, it’s no guarantee of immunity. A positive SARS-CoV-2 spike protein test just shows that your body has been exposed to the Covid-19 virus either though having the virus or by getting the vaccination and is making the appropriate antibodies to recognize it again in the future. But it won’t show the effectiveness or longevity of the antibody protection. Conversely a patient may show a low antibody number but still some immune response if exposed to the virus.

Antibodies are just one part of a complex immune response that is triggered when a person becomes infected with SARS-CoV-2. The presence of antibodies does not mean that they are there at a high enough concentration to provide protection from reinfection. Just as the lack of antibodies does not mean that the immune system is not primed to respond to reinfection.

What is most important is the adaptive immune response. The adaptive immune system is responsible for the long-lasting response. It activates your body’s T and B cells, which learn to recognize specific foreign materials. The T and B cells are the ones that then identify the foreign material months or years after the initial infection or vaccination and generate the antibodies to attack and eliminate the invaders.
Unfortunately testing the body’s T and B cells for Covid antibodies is difficult.

If I remember correctly, you had a low or zero score after your last SARS-CoV-2 test. Are you considering having another test run just to see if your numbers are up?

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Hi Lori!
Thanks so much for this wonderfully detailed and knowledgeable response! You have a great memory. Yes, I am the kidney transplant patient with zero antibodies from two doses of Moderna. Yes, I am thinking about retesting to see if there was any increase now that months have passed. 🙂

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@hello1234

Thanks so much @kedwards73. I really appreciate all of the information. Does the covid-19 antibodies test show a number or just positive/ negative. If they provide a number, how do you know if it's a low number or good number? Does the test result identify the low/high classification or is there something on the internet that I can use to interpret the result? Thank you again for being so knowledgeable!

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Wish I could be of more help but here’s what I know-
A number is provided along with a “positive” or “negative” comment. The issue is there isn’t an agreed standard developed about how much the number should be to actually indicate relative potency, IOTH is 200 enough or is 2000 what you want? The test only tested for one of three variables indicating the human body’s response- there are two forms of antibodies and T-cells. This test only measured one of the three.
The vaccine efficacy doesn’t have an agreed standard on effecting the virus, from what I understand. So having antibodies on one of the tests doesn’t measure your development of the other antibodies or T-cells. Hopkins had discussed other tests on those two elements but I don’t think it went anywhere.
One other interesting fact- as I recall, 40% of the immune suppressed population didn’t develop any antibodies from the vaccine in their study. They solicited some of those folks to take a third shot and that third dose resulted in those folks getting antibodies (hurray)!
So, it is all interesting and I feel so grateful to have stumbled into the study snd following results.
Again, my recall isn’t so great these days but I think that was the gist of it all😀!
If I was curious, being immune suppressed and vaccinated, I believe I would avail myself of the Labcorp route, just to know.
Take care!

REPLY
@loribmt

While it’s encouraging to have a higher number associated with the Covid test when checking for antibodies, it’s no guarantee of immunity. A positive SARS-CoV-2 spike protein test just shows that your body has been exposed to the Covid-19 virus either though having the virus or by getting the vaccination and is making the appropriate antibodies to recognize it again in the future. But it won’t show the effectiveness or longevity of the antibody protection. Conversely a patient may show a low antibody number but still some immune response if exposed to the virus.

Antibodies are just one part of a complex immune response that is triggered when a person becomes infected with SARS-CoV-2. The presence of antibodies does not mean that they are there at a high enough concentration to provide protection from reinfection. Just as the lack of antibodies does not mean that the immune system is not primed to respond to reinfection.

What is most important is the adaptive immune response. The adaptive immune system is responsible for the long-lasting response. It activates your body’s T and B cells, which learn to recognize specific foreign materials. The T and B cells are the ones that then identify the foreign material months or years after the initial infection or vaccination and generate the antibodies to attack and eliminate the invaders.
Unfortunately testing the body’s T and B cells for Covid antibodies is difficult.

If I remember correctly, you had a low or zero score after your last SARS-CoV-2 test. Are you considering having another test run just to see if your numbers are up?

Jump to this post

Hi everyone! Following the COVID vaccine conversation with TX folks has been interesting. After watching the JH webinars, I am content to wait for my doctors to release info that addresses our needs and my particular needs. That said, when we discuss T and B cells it's difficult. Those are the exact cells that our immuno-suppressant drugs affect. Our Tacro, Sirolimus, CellCept, etc. reduce the response from the T and B cells in order to avoid the opportunity for rejection of our heart, kidney, liver or other organ. So when we talk about relying on these cells to help us with COVID, I don't think it's scientifically reasonable to expect that. Does anyone know more about this? I would be glad to be mistaken! 🙂

REPLY
@kedwards73

Wish I could be of more help but here’s what I know-
A number is provided along with a “positive” or “negative” comment. The issue is there isn’t an agreed standard developed about how much the number should be to actually indicate relative potency, IOTH is 200 enough or is 2000 what you want? The test only tested for one of three variables indicating the human body’s response- there are two forms of antibodies and T-cells. This test only measured one of the three.
The vaccine efficacy doesn’t have an agreed standard on effecting the virus, from what I understand. So having antibodies on one of the tests doesn’t measure your development of the other antibodies or T-cells. Hopkins had discussed other tests on those two elements but I don’t think it went anywhere.
One other interesting fact- as I recall, 40% of the immune suppressed population didn’t develop any antibodies from the vaccine in their study. They solicited some of those folks to take a third shot and that third dose resulted in those folks getting antibodies (hurray)!
So, it is all interesting and I feel so grateful to have stumbled into the study snd following results.
Again, my recall isn’t so great these days but I think that was the gist of it all😀!
If I was curious, being immune suppressed and vaccinated, I believe I would avail myself of the Labcorp route, just to know.
Take care!

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Thank you @kedwards73 for such a caring, thorough and knowledgeable response! I am going to take your advice and contact Labcorp. Thank you again!

REPLY
@estrada53

Hi everyone! Following the COVID vaccine conversation with TX folks has been interesting. After watching the JH webinars, I am content to wait for my doctors to release info that addresses our needs and my particular needs. That said, when we discuss T and B cells it's difficult. Those are the exact cells that our immuno-suppressant drugs affect. Our Tacro, Sirolimus, CellCept, etc. reduce the response from the T and B cells in order to avoid the opportunity for rejection of our heart, kidney, liver or other organ. So when we talk about relying on these cells to help us with COVID, I don't think it's scientifically reasonable to expect that. Does anyone know more about this? I would be glad to be mistaken! 🙂

Jump to this post

I’m not a medical professional, but I have done a lot of reading about Tacrolimus and Mycophenolate, how they’re metabolized and their functions in our bodies. And, yes, Tacrolimus is a calcineurin inhibitor, like Cyclosporine, designed to block production of T cells. Mycophenolate is designed to inhibit both T cell and B cell production.

I’d assume this is one of the reasons we’re required to get all of our vaccinations, such as shingles, tetanus, etc. prior to transplant so that we’ll at least build some antibodies to these viruses.

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Interesting read:
Call in the T-Cell Cavalry to Fight COVID in the Immunocompromised
— Preliminary research suggests immunotherapy could play role in protecting vaccine non-responders
by Catherine Bollard, MD, MBChB July 29, 2021
https://www.medpagetoday.com/opinion/second-opinions/93805?xid=nl_secondopinion_2021-08-01&eun=g1900985d0r

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@athenalee

Interesting read:
Call in the T-Cell Cavalry to Fight COVID in the Immunocompromised
— Preliminary research suggests immunotherapy could play role in protecting vaccine non-responders
by Catherine Bollard, MD, MBChB July 29, 2021
https://www.medpagetoday.com/opinion/second-opinions/93805?xid=nl_secondopinion_2021-08-01&eun=g1900985d0r

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Great information @athenalee! (as always!!) Have you also seen some of the discussions about Regeneron and immune suppressed patients?Possibly getting an infusion proactively. It's another potential solution in addition to the T cell immunotherapy possibility. I am thrilled that the medical and pharmaceutical community are highly aware of our challenge and fully engaged looking for an effective strategy! I know you are an avid reader of the medical and science journals so please continue to forward all the studies and clinical trials you discover! It is very much appreciated and gives me great hope that an answer will be found.

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