High Calcium Score

Posted by mcphee @mcphee, Dec 14, 2016

I have a calcium score of 1,950 which is extremely high which means I am at a very high risk for a cardiac event,heart attack,stroke or sudden death.
I take a statin and baby aspirin.
I have never been sick,have excellent cholesterol,low blood pressure and I am not overweight.
I have no other health problems and I have never been sick.
But I feel like a walking time bomb which has caused me a lot of stress.
I wonder how others with this condition feel emotionally?
I am 70 yrs old.

Liked by sgarelick

I am wondering if anyone on this board has been able to decrease calcification using any method whatsoever. Looking forward to any indication of hope. Reading the TACT study, I was struck with the high dropout rate, a red flag. I am looking forward to Bluesdoc's opinion after he has interim testing done halfway through his course of chelation. I am even beginning to think that maybe bypass surgery could be done as a preventive measure (just as women with high risk of breast cancer opt for a mastectomy), although my guess is that surgeons would be unlikely to go along with such a request. I welcome any and all opinions on this matter.

REPLY

Hello @mark430,

Living in an age of information-overload, it is so difficult to determine what is safe or real and what is not! I’m not a medical professional and cannot offer medical advice, but as a moderator on Connect I would be remiss if I did not share my concerns about chelation therapy. While there is a legitimate medical use for chelation therapy – as treatment for toxic metal poisoning – it has gained notoriety as a treatment for many other conditions like heart disease, atherosclerosis.

According to Mayo Clinic, "The safety and effectiveness of chelation therapy for heart disease can't be determined, even after a large-scale study was conducted to determine just that. Results of TACT didn't provide enough evidence to support routine use of chelation therapy for heart disease.” https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/heart-disease/expert-answers/chelation-therapy/faq-20157449

Some important, but overlooked facts from The National Center for Complementary and Integrative Health div. of NIH (one of the sponsors of TACT) https://nccih.nih.gov/health/chelation

– Overall, TACT showed that chelation therapy produced only modest reduction in cardiovascular events. However, further examination of the data showed that therapy benefitted only those patients with diabetes. There was no significant benefit of EDTA treatment in participants who didn’t have diabetes.
– Among the patients receiving chelation, 26% went on to have a cardiovascular event, such as death, heart attack or stroke.
– 16% of those receiving chelation and 15% who were receiving the placebo stopped their infusions because of an adverse event. Four of those events were serious; 2 were in the chelation group (1 death) and 2 were in the placebo group (1 death).
– Dept. of Health and Human Services cited several concerns about the study, including that the researchers hadn't followed the rules.
– In 2006, the CDC reported that two children and one adult had died after receiving chelation. They all developed dangerously low calcium levels, which can cause the heart to stop beating.

At the risk of inundating you with more reading, I think this journal article might also interest you:
– Why the NIH Trial to Assess Chelation Therapy (TACT) Should Be Abandoned https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2438277/

In the constant search for "living our best life” or following popular (often misleading) trends like "natural equals safe,” I myself have given in to the temptations of anecdotal evidence (oh the joys of non-diet related weight loss supplements:) – rather than waiting for tedious, sometimes inconclusive, but often factually correct clinical evidence. So when considering complementary or alternative treatments, it is best to be be open-minded yet skeptical–making treatment decisions based on poor-quality scientific data can be dangerous, especially when it concerns heart disease.

@mark430, I will continue to research this topic to provide resources, and I’m so glad to read that you will consult your cardiologist about chelation. I’m tagging Mentors @hopeful33250 and @predictable and fellow members @thankful @mdemoI @surf362 , and look forward to hearing more from you.

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Great information; thank you for taking the time to put together!

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@kanaazpereira

Hello @mark430,

Living in an age of information-overload, it is so difficult to determine what is safe or real and what is not! I’m not a medical professional and cannot offer medical advice, but as a moderator on Connect I would be remiss if I did not share my concerns about chelation therapy. While there is a legitimate medical use for chelation therapy – as treatment for toxic metal poisoning – it has gained notoriety as a treatment for many other conditions like heart disease, atherosclerosis.

According to Mayo Clinic, "The safety and effectiveness of chelation therapy for heart disease can't be determined, even after a large-scale study was conducted to determine just that. Results of TACT didn't provide enough evidence to support routine use of chelation therapy for heart disease.” https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/heart-disease/expert-answers/chelation-therapy/faq-20157449

Some important, but overlooked facts from The National Center for Complementary and Integrative Health div. of NIH (one of the sponsors of TACT) https://nccih.nih.gov/health/chelation

– Overall, TACT showed that chelation therapy produced only modest reduction in cardiovascular events. However, further examination of the data showed that therapy benefitted only those patients with diabetes. There was no significant benefit of EDTA treatment in participants who didn’t have diabetes.
– Among the patients receiving chelation, 26% went on to have a cardiovascular event, such as death, heart attack or stroke.
– 16% of those receiving chelation and 15% who were receiving the placebo stopped their infusions because of an adverse event. Four of those events were serious; 2 were in the chelation group (1 death) and 2 were in the placebo group (1 death).
– Dept. of Health and Human Services cited several concerns about the study, including that the researchers hadn't followed the rules.
– In 2006, the CDC reported that two children and one adult had died after receiving chelation. They all developed dangerously low calcium levels, which can cause the heart to stop beating.

At the risk of inundating you with more reading, I think this journal article might also interest you:
– Why the NIH Trial to Assess Chelation Therapy (TACT) Should Be Abandoned https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2438277/

In the constant search for "living our best life” or following popular (often misleading) trends like "natural equals safe,” I myself have given in to the temptations of anecdotal evidence (oh the joys of non-diet related weight loss supplements:) – rather than waiting for tedious, sometimes inconclusive, but often factually correct clinical evidence. So when considering complementary or alternative treatments, it is best to be be open-minded yet skeptical–making treatment decisions based on poor-quality scientific data can be dangerous, especially when it concerns heart disease.

@mark430, I will continue to research this topic to provide resources, and I’m so glad to read that you will consult your cardiologist about chelation. I’m tagging Mentors @hopeful33250 and @predictable and fellow members @thankful @mdemoI @surf362 , and look forward to hearing more from you.

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I thought I made it clear that I'm not pursuing chelation to lower MI risk. My goal is to reduce calcification of vessels that are otherwise turning to stone. I'm well aware that there is NO data to support (for or against) what I'm doing and I'm not recommending this for anyone else. It's totally an experiment on my part – an experiment that might end soon. It's not like there's a better approach to these astronomical CAC scores, other than the usual anti-atheroma approaches. But thanks for your input and concern, Kanaaz. jon

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Here are a some more discussions on Connect, where fellow members are talking about about calcium scores:

– very high calcium score https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/very-high-calcium-score/
– High Calcium Score and PCSK9 https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/high-calcium-score-and-pcsk9/
– Vitamin K2 and Calcium (CAC) Score https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/vitamin-k2-and-cac-score/

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@kanaazpereira

Hello @mark430,

Living in an age of information-overload, it is so difficult to determine what is safe or real and what is not! I’m not a medical professional and cannot offer medical advice, but as a moderator on Connect I would be remiss if I did not share my concerns about chelation therapy. While there is a legitimate medical use for chelation therapy – as treatment for toxic metal poisoning – it has gained notoriety as a treatment for many other conditions like heart disease, atherosclerosis.

According to Mayo Clinic, "The safety and effectiveness of chelation therapy for heart disease can't be determined, even after a large-scale study was conducted to determine just that. Results of TACT didn't provide enough evidence to support routine use of chelation therapy for heart disease.” https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/heart-disease/expert-answers/chelation-therapy/faq-20157449

Some important, but overlooked facts from The National Center for Complementary and Integrative Health div. of NIH (one of the sponsors of TACT) https://nccih.nih.gov/health/chelation

– Overall, TACT showed that chelation therapy produced only modest reduction in cardiovascular events. However, further examination of the data showed that therapy benefitted only those patients with diabetes. There was no significant benefit of EDTA treatment in participants who didn’t have diabetes.
– Among the patients receiving chelation, 26% went on to have a cardiovascular event, such as death, heart attack or stroke.
– 16% of those receiving chelation and 15% who were receiving the placebo stopped their infusions because of an adverse event. Four of those events were serious; 2 were in the chelation group (1 death) and 2 were in the placebo group (1 death).
– Dept. of Health and Human Services cited several concerns about the study, including that the researchers hadn't followed the rules.
– In 2006, the CDC reported that two children and one adult had died after receiving chelation. They all developed dangerously low calcium levels, which can cause the heart to stop beating.

At the risk of inundating you with more reading, I think this journal article might also interest you:
– Why the NIH Trial to Assess Chelation Therapy (TACT) Should Be Abandoned https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2438277/

In the constant search for "living our best life” or following popular (often misleading) trends like "natural equals safe,” I myself have given in to the temptations of anecdotal evidence (oh the joys of non-diet related weight loss supplements:) – rather than waiting for tedious, sometimes inconclusive, but often factually correct clinical evidence. So when considering complementary or alternative treatments, it is best to be be open-minded yet skeptical–making treatment decisions based on poor-quality scientific data can be dangerous, especially when it concerns heart disease.

@mark430, I will continue to research this topic to provide resources, and I’m so glad to read that you will consult your cardiologist about chelation. I’m tagging Mentors @hopeful33250 and @predictable and fellow members @thankful @mdemoI @surf362 , and look forward to hearing more from you.

Jump to this post

Kanaaz Pereira, thank you VERY much for your quality reply to my concerns. It is certainly comforting to have others like yourself helping people stay healthy. Clearly, I have more reading and thinking to do. Regarding chelation and the TACT study, I do see flawed, but apparently good results for those with diabetes. Those results, if accurate may indicate hope for me, as I have been borderline diabetic for quite some time (possibly a side effect of years of statin therapy). To continue increasing my CAC score as time goes by will not end well for me and I am hoping to find some way to reverse it. Exercise and diet may slow it down. Vitamin K2 may or may not help. Catheterization indicates that the lumens in my coronary arteries are clear, so bypass surgery in order to avoid sudden death does not seem to be an option (please let me know if I am wrong about that).

I want to thank Bluesdoc for his willingness to share results of his chelation experience. I, like him, am hoping to reverse my high CAC score. My further hope would be that this reversal, in turn, would reduce the danger of a sudden CVA or an MI.

I live in South Florida, but maybe it would be helpful for me to see someone in the Mayo Clinic who could help through medication and/or surgical intervention. I am under the care of a well trained cardiologist, but she may not have access to many of the tools that Mayo has to offer. Does anyone have thoughts on that possibility?

REPLY
@mark430

Kanaaz Pereira, thank you VERY much for your quality reply to my concerns. It is certainly comforting to have others like yourself helping people stay healthy. Clearly, I have more reading and thinking to do. Regarding chelation and the TACT study, I do see flawed, but apparently good results for those with diabetes. Those results, if accurate may indicate hope for me, as I have been borderline diabetic for quite some time (possibly a side effect of years of statin therapy). To continue increasing my CAC score as time goes by will not end well for me and I am hoping to find some way to reverse it. Exercise and diet may slow it down. Vitamin K2 may or may not help. Catheterization indicates that the lumens in my coronary arteries are clear, so bypass surgery in order to avoid sudden death does not seem to be an option (please let me know if I am wrong about that).

I want to thank Bluesdoc for his willingness to share results of his chelation experience. I, like him, am hoping to reverse my high CAC score. My further hope would be that this reversal, in turn, would reduce the danger of a sudden CVA or an MI.

I live in South Florida, but maybe it would be helpful for me to see someone in the Mayo Clinic who could help through medication and/or surgical intervention. I am under the care of a well trained cardiologist, but she may not have access to many of the tools that Mayo has to offer. Does anyone have thoughts on that possibility?

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@mark430– I had a friend whose father was receiving Chelation therapy and it extended his years by only 3 years. He died (67) just this past year. I am a real believer in Mayo and the way they do medicine. It's a colaborative effort with the best doctors anywhere.
I went to the Scottsdale, AZ. Mayo for a 2nd opinion and the results were so much more accurate than what I received at a very good heart hospital in my area in OR. Btw, I still believe that if we are willing to change our diet significantly and exercise for 45-60 minutes a day for 3 days a week, is the best we can honestly do to extend our lives. After that we were delt certain genes and they have a bunch to do with it as well. Jim @thankful

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Thankful, I appreciate your care in replying to my post. I do exercise about 35 to 40 minutes five or six days per week and my weight is about 190 at 6 feet tall. Will turn 75 next week. I see you wrote about a satellite Mayo clinic in Arizona and I notice that there is a Mayo Clinic in Jacksonville, Florida, about a 4.5 hour drive from my home. I'm thinking it might be good to get there for an opinion and to get myself into their system. Just thinking out loud and thankful for Thankful's advice. Will call them for an appointment.

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@mark430– You won't be disapointed! Jim @thankful

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@nyartist

OK.. so a Calcium score of 2316 and then I wrote kind of a goodbye note to my wife not intending her to see it. Anyway, just got back from hiking in the mountains of Crested Butte in Colorado where the mountains are steep and the trails are rugged. I just came from sea level in NYC to upwards of 11,000 feet and my heart was beating like a madman. Yet I did the hikes with no symptoms. So what the heck are we gonna do – wait for that piece of plaque to break off and kill us? Hell with that nonsense. These high scores indicate that plaque was building up over many many years not the fresh or loose plaque that will tend to be unstable. I've doubled the number of days I go to the gym and doubled the intensity of the workouts I do. That feels great. But I have no idea if something is lurking in the background waiting to bring me down to earth. But I'm gonna continue what I've been doing – and have even stopped the baby aspirin. What's with cardiologists? as soon as you get some kind of score or indication their answer is always: statin and baby aspirin. I started a regimen of holistic or herbal things and will continue doing that. Fact is the cardio docs only know what they know. They have ZERO idea of anything else that could be of help because they just don't study anything else. I will continue to see my cardio doc and continue on this regimen and for sure continue to work my butt off in the gym. For a while all I could think of is this one thing I read: 'if your score is over 1000 you have a 25% chance of having an event in the next year'. To that I say Screw You. That;s no way to live this precious life wondering about that.

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Important to know that it's not the calification which kills, its the hot plaque. As long as you have removed sources of inflammation; insulin resistance, stress, infection, etc….and dropped weight, you don't have to be in the unaware high cac score group. I would buy a defibrillator and keep it handy though just in case

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@mark430

Kanaaz Pereira, thank you VERY much for your quality reply to my concerns. It is certainly comforting to have others like yourself helping people stay healthy. Clearly, I have more reading and thinking to do. Regarding chelation and the TACT study, I do see flawed, but apparently good results for those with diabetes. Those results, if accurate may indicate hope for me, as I have been borderline diabetic for quite some time (possibly a side effect of years of statin therapy). To continue increasing my CAC score as time goes by will not end well for me and I am hoping to find some way to reverse it. Exercise and diet may slow it down. Vitamin K2 may or may not help. Catheterization indicates that the lumens in my coronary arteries are clear, so bypass surgery in order to avoid sudden death does not seem to be an option (please let me know if I am wrong about that).

I want to thank Bluesdoc for his willingness to share results of his chelation experience. I, like him, am hoping to reverse my high CAC score. My further hope would be that this reversal, in turn, would reduce the danger of a sudden CVA or an MI.

I live in South Florida, but maybe it would be helpful for me to see someone in the Mayo Clinic who could help through medication and/or surgical intervention. I am under the care of a well trained cardiologist, but she may not have access to many of the tools that Mayo has to offer. Does anyone have thoughts on that possibility?

Jump to this post

The rotterdam study and various ckd studies all show that k2 prevents calcification andreduces heart attack events. I would not take mega does of it with mega doses of d3 though. The calcification is like scar tissue, it cannot kill, only exposed soft plaque clots and kills.

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@muscleriot

The rotterdam study and various ckd studies all show that k2 prevents calcification andreduces heart attack events. I would not take mega does of it with mega doses of d3 though. The calcification is like scar tissue, it cannot kill, only exposed soft plaque clots and kills.

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Thank you for the post, muscleriot. I am taking the same dose of K2 from the same manufacturer as did the people who participated in the Rotterdam study. I do understand the importance of calcification in fixing plaque, but the bottom line is the reduced death rate for participants in the study. I am hoping that the hot plaque diminishes somehow, as I reduce the calcium in my arteries. Does anyone know if the amount of uncalcified (if that is a proper term) hot plaque diminishes in time with very low cholesterol?

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@mark430

Thank you for the post, muscleriot. I am taking the same dose of K2 from the same manufacturer as did the people who participated in the Rotterdam study. I do understand the importance of calcification in fixing plaque, but the bottom line is the reduced death rate for participants in the study. I am hoping that the hot plaque diminishes somehow, as I reduce the calcium in my arteries. Does anyone know if the amount of uncalcified (if that is a proper term) hot plaque diminishes in time with very low cholesterol?

Jump to this post

@mark430– Mark, what is the dose of K2 and the manufacturer you purchase it from? Don't have an answer for you on the uncalcified hot plaque diminishes, but I'm not sure I mentioned this in my earlier post that my cardiologist at Mayo in Scottsdale, AZ. really likes to go after the LDL more than anything and mine was 82 at the time and he put me on 20 ml. of Rosuvastatin (generic for Crestor) and 6 months later all my numbers were even better especially my LDL was at 65. In the past I had always been on 40 ml of the other statins, but he felt lets start here. He was very happy as was I with the results! Jim @thankful

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Thankful, I am using 180 mcg of MenaQ7 K2 MK-7 one time per day. I will be getting my blood tests back in a couple of days, but my LDL should be very low. Good luck to you, Thankful.

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Hi Everyone, Trying to take a proactive approach to my health after my brothers passing a month and a half ago at age 50, he smoked all his life and did not take care of himself, so I asked my doc about things I could do now he told me about this scan, it was only $75 so I did it got my results and now I am freaking out my score came back Total 831, Left Main 0, LAD 297, Left circumflex 346, RCA 188, Other 0, so my doc said I need to see a Cardiologist asap, I am in pretty good health active workout I am 51 years old, I started combing the net for answers, found this site, reading some of your post seeing other peoples scores and ages has me feeling a little better at least knowing I am not the only one out here, this is scary I am 6'3" 285 so not a small guy, my biggest question is what does all this mean, what can I do, and do any of the doctors from Mayo ever chime in? With advice or whatever, I dont know supposed to see the Cardiologist Thursday, if I make it, and one more thing has anyone ever stabilized or lower there score???

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