Other causes of failed PEth test for alchohol abuse?

Posted by gjones1956 @gjones1956, Nov 14, 2017

My daughter undergoes periodic peth testing for alchohol abuse. She fails regularly, although swears she drinks NOTHING. We have reason to believe she is telling the truth. Assuming she is indeed not drinking, is there a physical condition or ailment that might produce positive peth tests? She is 29, has enlarged lymph nodes, some kind of mysterious condition that gives her severe hives, etc. We are wondering if some type of autoinflammation or autoimmune condition might explain elevated levels. Our daughter is FINALLY discussing this with her regular doctor but if it is some unusual condition a specialist will be needed. The reason the peth test is required is due to a nasty custody dispute with lots of allegations of misconduct. I just want to know if there is ANYTHING other than alchohol consumption that can lead to positive test results. Any thoughts or knowledge of cases? Thanks for reading.

@fairlaneowner

I have three negative PEth tests and two positive PEth tests, all with no alcohol consumed. There is a high risk of me losing custody of my kids due to the positives, but my family doctor offered no help. Keep this blog going!

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The morning after that evening’s surprise test, I took my own back-up test at another testing facility nearby. The sample went to the same lab (USDTL) at the surprise test for analysis. Results: negative! How can that be? How can I test positive from one tester and negative at another, within hours? The PEth test is a 2-3 week look-back. So far, Forensic DNA & Testing has shown me positive three times, where every other tester results came back negative. All of it with no alcohol consumption at all. Something isn’t right. I also recently did a fingernail EtG which came back negative, which I was told looks back 6 months. Currently I cannot see my kids because of Forensic DNA & Testing PEth Test positive results. I’m working hard to vindicate myself, included getting a toxicologist to review all the results & speak on my behalf as not drinking.

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The PEth test is a non-FDA approved "Laboratory Developed Test" (LDT) that was introduced as a "confirmation test" for the EtG test. All of the "research" supporting it confirms alcohol ingestion and supporting the purported cutoff levels can be linked to those who profit from it. There is no regulation or oversight of these tests. The labs can say anything they want about them (and they do). It is no accident that these tests are only being used by the criminal justice system, child custody cases and state licensing boards (doctors, nurses) and some pilots. It is not used in employee drug testing by any unionized occupation or group that has an outside entity advocating for the best interests of the person being tested. This is not simply "junk science" but a racket designed to profit a few at the expense of many and the consequences are far reaching, grave and sometimes permanent. The problem is no counter-forces exist. It is self-evident that those who have been harmed by these tests are not able to muster the resources to provide counter-studies or debunk the experts in their individual cases. The financial conflicts of interest and "bent-science" need to be identified and exposed. There is simply no scientific basis for the misuse of these tests and those promoting and selling them need to be held accountable. A class-action is necessary sooner rather than later. See disruptedphysician.com and search by keyword "LDT" for more history on these tests

Liked by mllangan1

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@fairlaneowner

I have three negative PEth tests and two positive PEth tests, all with no alcohol consumed. There is a high risk of me losing custody of my kids due to the positives, but my family doctor offered no help. Keep this blog going!

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Hi @roxycarmichael can you explain alittle more about Phytoceramide and Honokiol? Do they help show a negative result on the PeTh blood sample?

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@fairlaneowner

I have three negative PEth tests and two positive PEth tests, all with no alcohol consumed. There is a high risk of me losing custody of my kids due to the positives, but my family doctor offered no help. Keep this blog going!

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I sent you a PM but we need to talk… Same Lab; Same test facility; same issue…

Anyone else seeing this with either USDTL and/or Forensic DNA? What other testers did you use?

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@mllangan1

The PEth test is a non-FDA approved "Laboratory Developed Test" (LDT) that was introduced as a "confirmation test" for the EtG test. All of the "research" supporting it confirms alcohol ingestion and supporting the purported cutoff levels can be linked to those who profit from it. There is no regulation or oversight of these tests. The labs can say anything they want about them (and they do). It is no accident that these tests are only being used by the criminal justice system, child custody cases and state licensing boards (doctors, nurses) and some pilots. It is not used in employee drug testing by any unionized occupation or group that has an outside entity advocating for the best interests of the person being tested. This is not simply "junk science" but a racket designed to profit a few at the expense of many and the consequences are far reaching, grave and sometimes permanent. The problem is no counter-forces exist. It is self-evident that those who have been harmed by these tests are not able to muster the resources to provide counter-studies or debunk the experts in their individual cases. The financial conflicts of interest and "bent-science" need to be identified and exposed. There is simply no scientific basis for the misuse of these tests and those promoting and selling them need to be held accountable. A class-action is necessary sooner rather than later. See disruptedphysician.com and search by keyword "LDT" for more history on these tests

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I would love to join the suit based on our experience with PETH

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@fairlaneowner

I have three negative PEth tests and two positive PEth tests, all with no alcohol consumed. There is a high risk of me losing custody of my kids due to the positives, but my family doctor offered no help. Keep this blog going!

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I should add we also have (multiple) conflicting test results to counter failed tests at USDTL using direct blood draw vs their bloodspot cards.

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@mllangan1

The PEth test is a non-FDA approved "Laboratory Developed Test" (LDT) that was introduced as a "confirmation test" for the EtG test. All of the "research" supporting it confirms alcohol ingestion and supporting the purported cutoff levels can be linked to those who profit from it. There is no regulation or oversight of these tests. The labs can say anything they want about them (and they do). It is no accident that these tests are only being used by the criminal justice system, child custody cases and state licensing boards (doctors, nurses) and some pilots. It is not used in employee drug testing by any unionized occupation or group that has an outside entity advocating for the best interests of the person being tested. This is not simply "junk science" but a racket designed to profit a few at the expense of many and the consequences are far reaching, grave and sometimes permanent. The problem is no counter-forces exist. It is self-evident that those who have been harmed by these tests are not able to muster the resources to provide counter-studies or debunk the experts in their individual cases. The financial conflicts of interest and "bent-science" need to be identified and exposed. There is simply no scientific basis for the misuse of these tests and those promoting and selling them need to be held accountable. A class-action is necessary sooner rather than later. See disruptedphysician.com and search by keyword "LDT" for more history on these tests

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There isn’t a suit

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I am also seeking help and answers. I am a recovering alcoholic. I went thru treatment. I have had a total 5 PEth tests. 2 were positive, 1 Negative hair follicle test. I am waiting to do another hair follicle test. I haven't had any alcohol since Aug 5, 2017. I need help. This test could cost me my livelihood.

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@fairlaneowner

I have three negative PEth tests and two positive PEth tests, all with no alcohol consumed. There is a high risk of me losing custody of my kids due to the positives, but my family doctor offered no help. Keep this blog going!

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I was wondering the accuracy of USDTL. I am also wondering about expiration dates on the cards used to collect samples. If they have lot numbers, have there been recalls. How many positive tests in lot number sets. Are the skewed batches of cards are there to increase the testing . I could go on.

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@genie862017

I am also seeking help and answers. I am a recovering alcoholic. I went thru treatment. I have had a total 5 PEth tests. 2 were positive, 1 Negative hair follicle test. I am waiting to do another hair follicle test. I haven't had any alcohol since Aug 5, 2017. I need help. This test could cost me my livelihood.

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All I know is what’s happened to me. After a two false positives (contradicted by back-up tests I paid for myself from another testing facility), my judge said a toxicologist could be engaged to speak to the contradictions and vindicate me. Since then there have been 3 more false positives similarly contradicted by back-up tests, & I’m headed to court with said toxicologist soon to hopefully put this behind us. It cost me my kids thru no fault of my own, no alcohol consumption at all.
My ONLY positives were from one testing facility. All others from different places have all been negative, as they should be. Covering yourself with back-up tests is expensive but worth it.

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@fairlaneowner

All I know is what’s happened to me. After a two false positives (contradicted by back-up tests I paid for myself from another testing facility), my judge said a toxicologist could be engaged to speak to the contradictions and vindicate me. Since then there have been 3 more false positives similarly contradicted by back-up tests, & I’m headed to court with said toxicologist soon to hopefully put this behind us. It cost me my kids thru no fault of my own, no alcohol consumption at all.
My ONLY positives were from one testing facility. All others from different places have all been negative, as they should be. Covering yourself with back-up tests is expensive but worth it.

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I have been to court again with a toxicologist speaking on my behalf to evidence of five (5) false positives each contradicted by a negative PEth test taken elsewhere. The judge ruled to give me my kids back and let me drive them now, and I no longer have to be subjected to the court’s appointed test facility but can go to another facility of my choosing. It was time consuming & very costly (oh, what I could do for my kids with the $15k all this cost, for ultimately no good reason!), and cost me 8 months of time with my wonderful kids.

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@roxycarmichael

This PETH test is BS. Point. Blank. I know several non-drinkers who’ve tested positive and suffered the consequences.

I think it’s time to get Congress involved! In the meantime, might we not fight fire with fire? This PETH is created by an enzyme called Phospholipase D. Amazon (and many local health stores) carry things that block Phisoholipase D. Phytoceramide and Honokiol are two of them.

My $.02.

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@roxycarmichael Have you had success with the Honokiol and Phytoceramides? I had a ridiculous positive… and I am not drinking. If they are going to take this test, have you heard of good results with these two things… and how fast does it start to block the Phospholipase… Thanks for any input about this…

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@hulalupa

@roxycarmichael Have you had success with the Honokiol and Phytoceramides? I had a ridiculous positive… and I am not drinking. If they are going to take this test, have you heard of good results with these two things… and how fast does it start to block the Phospholipase… Thanks for any input about this…

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Hi, @hulalupa – welcome to Mayo Clinic Connect. I'm sorry to hear you had a ridiculous positive with a PEth test.

Hoping that @genie862017 @fairlaneowner @genie862017 @pethmadpethmadness @peterpansdotter @mllangan1 and others in this discussion about failed PEth tests will have some input for you on Honokiol and Phytoceramides. @johnbishop may also have some insights.

Will you share a bit more about what happened with your positive PEth test, @hulalupa?

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Hi @hulalupa — I would like to add my welcome to Connect along with @lisalucier and other members here. The best thing you can do is learn as much as you can about the testing and be a strong advocate for yourself. These links were in earlier posts but I thought I would repeat them here.

Links I've found that point out the problems with the current PEth testing:

Against the Rising Tide: Looking for Biostatisticians and Epidemiologists to help shape Drug-Testing Policy to be more Evidence-Based
https://disruptedphysician.com/2014/12/01/against-the-rising-tide-looking-for-biostatisticians-and-epidemiologists-to-help-shape-drug-testing-policy-to-be-more-evidence-based/

ETG/ETS – A Physician Criticizes the Tests and Lack of FDA Oversight (law firm website)
http://www.rockindlaw.com/etgets-a-physician-criticizes-the-tests-and-lack-of-fda-oversight/

Biomolecules and Biomarkers Used in Diagnosis of Alcohol Drinking and in Monitoring Therapeutic Interventions
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4598755/

I also found a lot of research information on Google Scholar (https://scholar.google.com/) using the search phrase "peth alcohol test false positive". Here are the search results links:
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?as_ylo=2018&q=peth+alcohol+test+false+positive&hl=en&as_sdt=1,24&as_vis=1

Hoping you find some answers…

John

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@johnbishop

Hi @hulalupa — I would like to add my welcome to Connect along with @lisalucier and other members here. The best thing you can do is learn as much as you can about the testing and be a strong advocate for yourself. These links were in earlier posts but I thought I would repeat them here.

Links I've found that point out the problems with the current PEth testing:

Against the Rising Tide: Looking for Biostatisticians and Epidemiologists to help shape Drug-Testing Policy to be more Evidence-Based
https://disruptedphysician.com/2014/12/01/against-the-rising-tide-looking-for-biostatisticians-and-epidemiologists-to-help-shape-drug-testing-policy-to-be-more-evidence-based/

ETG/ETS – A Physician Criticizes the Tests and Lack of FDA Oversight (law firm website)
http://www.rockindlaw.com/etgets-a-physician-criticizes-the-tests-and-lack-of-fda-oversight/

Biomolecules and Biomarkers Used in Diagnosis of Alcohol Drinking and in Monitoring Therapeutic Interventions
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4598755/

I also found a lot of research information on Google Scholar (https://scholar.google.com/) using the search phrase "peth alcohol test false positive". Here are the search results links:
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?as_ylo=2018&q=peth+alcohol+test+false+positive&hl=en&as_sdt=1,24&as_vis=1

Hoping you find some answers…

John

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Thank you John So much for these links… I really appreciate it!
Lupa

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