1. < Aortic Aneurysms

Aortic Flutter Test 98% prediction accuracy

Posted by georgeh @georgeh, Aug 5 5:54pm

Hi Everyone! I just found this forum today. There's such great information here!

I'm a 77 year old male with a 4.6 cm (CT last Oct.) ascending aortic aneurysm. The cardiologist didn't seem that concerned, and said let's check it again in a year... I'm scheduled for another CT this Oct. I'm in good health with no family history of heart disease. I don't smoke or drink...I play tennis 4 times a week...I live in Los Angeles.

I've come across something quite interesting and I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with it.

It's called the “flutter instability parameter” (FIP), the new metric (calculated with a single 4D flow MRI) predicted future aneurysm with 98% accuracy on average three years after the FIP was first measured.

It seems this would help in determining how dangerous an aneurysm is...

The research was done at Northwestern University. I've tried emailing the researcher, but I haven't gotten a reply. My cardiologist hadn't heard of it...

Here's a YouTube link:


Article link:
https://news.northwestern.edu/stories/2023/12/unstable-fluttering-predicts-aortic-aneurysm/
Let's hope this will be a value...

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Aortic Aneurysms Support Group.

JSN1 | @cez1 | Sep 24 9:15am

Im male 5-11 185 lbs, run 5 miles a day, 67 years. Only told to avoid holding breath when lifting and avoid lifting over 80 pounds, monitor blood pressure and keep in optimal range (below 80 dia). Last measured at 4.6. Wondering about that flutter test, since a burst aorta is different than a dissection, my understanding being that a dissection is like a de-lamination that allows blood to get behind the lining of the aorta and starts separating the layers, does the flutter test relate to just one or the other? Does flutter test relate to turbulence due to a valve problem? Risk information provided by doctors does not seem to differentiate between a burst and a dissection. Can't help but wonder if same mechanics underlie both or are they fundamentally different?

REPLY
1 reply
georgeh | @georgeh | Sep 24 4:12pm
In reply to @carlwgordon "I'm 6 foot 1 ich and 210 lbs" + (show)
@carlwgordon

I'm 6 foot 1 ich and 210 lbs

Jump to this post

Sounds like you're in really good shape! A 4.1 cm is relatively small. As long as you monitor it yearly, it seems to me you're on the right path. But of course, that's just my (uneducated) opinion.

REPLY
1 reply
georgeh | @georgeh | Sep 24 4:45pm
In reply to @cez1 "Im male 5-11 185 lbs, run 5 miles a day, 67 years. Only told to avoid..." + (show)
@cez1

Im male 5-11 185 lbs, run 5 miles a day, 67 years. Only told to avoid holding breath when lifting and avoid lifting over 80 pounds, monitor blood pressure and keep in optimal range (below 80 dia). Last measured at 4.6. Wondering about that flutter test, since a burst aorta is different than a dissection, my understanding being that a dissection is like a de-lamination that allows blood to get behind the lining of the aorta and starts separating the layers, does the flutter test relate to just one or the other? Does flutter test relate to turbulence due to a valve problem? Risk information provided by doctors does not seem to differentiate between a burst and a dissection. Can't help but wonder if same mechanics underlie both or are they fundamentally different?

Jump to this post

What I get from the article is that the weakness in the aortic wall creates "flutter". From that instability, a dissection or rupture can occur.

Terrible percentages when it comes to rupture...pretty close to 100% fatal. For dissection, it's all about how fast they can get you to a hospital (that has the ability) to operate. My cardiologist said the number is about 50% survival.

Super important that responders know you have an aneurysm. At least you know!

People who experience a dissection and don't know they have an aneurysm can die by the time the hospital figures out the problem. John Ritter died because of a misdiagnosis.

If the responders know it's an aneurysm, they'll medivac you to a hospital that can do the surgery. Every minute counts...

I wish I knew more about the FIP test. I've called and emailed Northwestern but they don't respond. My guess is they feel they need more research before they make the information available to the world. God, I hope that's soon.

Next month if my CT scan is 5.0 I'm going for surgery. Not a pleasant thought. But if you're at a high volume hospital that does hundreds of aortic repairs a year, your chances of survival are greater than 99%.

But, wouldn't it be nice if an MRI could tell you "you have 3 years without any worry"?

REPLY
1 reply
carlwgordon | @carlwgordon | Sep 24 6:20pm
In reply to @georgeh "Sounds like you're in really good shape! A 4.1 cm is relatively small. As long as..." + (show)
@georgeh

Sounds like you're in really good shape! A 4.1 cm is relatively small. As long as you monitor it yearly, it seems to me you're on the right path. But of course, that's just my (uneducated) opinion.

Jump to this post

Thanks for your input and good luck.

REPLY
pamela78 | @pamela78 | Sep 25 8:47am
In reply to @georgeh "What I get from the article is that the weakness in the aortic wall creates "flutter"...." + (show)
@georgeh

What I get from the article is that the weakness in the aortic wall creates "flutter". From that instability, a dissection or rupture can occur.

Terrible percentages when it comes to rupture...pretty close to 100% fatal. For dissection, it's all about how fast they can get you to a hospital (that has the ability) to operate. My cardiologist said the number is about 50% survival.

Super important that responders know you have an aneurysm. At least you know!

People who experience a dissection and don't know they have an aneurysm can die by the time the hospital figures out the problem. John Ritter died because of a misdiagnosis.

If the responders know it's an aneurysm, they'll medivac you to a hospital that can do the surgery. Every minute counts...

I wish I knew more about the FIP test. I've called and emailed Northwestern but they don't respond. My guess is they feel they need more research before they make the information available to the world. God, I hope that's soon.

Next month if my CT scan is 5.0 I'm going for surgery. Not a pleasant thought. But if you're at a high volume hospital that does hundreds of aortic repairs a year, your chances of survival are greater than 99%.

But, wouldn't it be nice if an MRI could tell you "you have 3 years without any worry"?

Jump to this post

Yes, it would be nice to know, not how long we have but how long we can stop thinking about it 24/7. My cardiologist has been very reassuring. I'm female, 78, 5'6", 4.2. My doctor says I'll live to be 90. He's probably just trying to make me feel better, but I'll take it.

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