Dilated Aortic root

Posted by geocirese @geocirese, May 13, 2024

Hello,
I'm a 78 year old male with what used to be excellent health. I was diagnosed with an expanded aortic root to the size 4.6 cm. My BP readings with out medications are generally excellent with diastolic readings in the 60 and 70's. The systolic readings are in the low 120's and sometimes even in the 115-119.. I was born with only two leaflets in the root as opposed to the normal three. I'm cosidering surgery to repair the aortic root but my concern , as well as my surgeons, is my kidney... as I'm a donor since 2005 and only have the right kidney. My creatinine readings are 1.20 to 1.25 and have maintained in those readings since the donation. Any thoughts?

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Profile picture for geocirese @geocirese

From what I understand, one would have to be a candidate for the minimal invasive surgery. I'm sure it leaves most patients out of that picture. I've reached 80 years and my diagnosis was three years ago in November. My readings range anywhere from 4.2 to 5.1 with a recent MRA and an Echo. One cardiac surgeon is reading me at 4.2 while my cardiologist and cardiac nurses and radiologists are reading me at 5.1. Talk about sleeping well at night???

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@geocirese 87 here and know what you mean.Mine was 4.6 1 yr ago.Will see cardiologist in 2 weeks.Trying to live and not dwell on it but at times it’s difficult.

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Profile picture for geocirese @geocirese

Hi,
I was diagnoised in Decemebr of 2023. At that time a cardilogist read my dialiation at 4.9 with an echocardiogram I'm getting varied dilatation growth rates anywhere from 4.6 with a Gated CT scan (April 24) to a 5.1 with a recent (May 24) echocardiogram. Also getting conflicted reports on which test is more accurate for the aortic root measurment. One surgeon say the CT scan is the best and another claims the Echo is better??? I went for another CT scan just the other day but the radiologist opted out due to the dye needed and my only having one kidney. I'll confer with the surgeon this week. I've seen several cardiologist and two surgeons at this point, again, with conflicting views on the more accurate test. At this point it's check with CT scan every 6 months.

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CT scans give out a lot of radiation. I only have MRIs. Request an MRI and see if your doctor will write an order. Regarding accuracy, it is my understanding ECHOs aren’t as accurate for measurements as CT scans and MRIs.

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See, again, differences of opinions. A while back I read a report about a diagnosis of a condition and treatment for that particular condition. This is where AI comes in. AI got the diagnosis and treatment correct at an 80% rate whereas the group of doctors evaluating got it 20% correct.
My cardiac surgeon only requires CT scans as he claims MRA's and MRI"s and Echo's read too deep and with breathing in an out, the readings are all over the place. He also reads the dilation from the inside of the aortic root whereas most cardiologist and radiologist read the outside diameter. He claims they are reading it wrong. As Prince sang, I now refer to him as Dr. Feel Good.

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Profile picture for sarastewart @sarastewart

CT scans give out a lot of radiation. I only have MRIs. Request an MRI and see if your doctor will write an order. Regarding accuracy, it is my understanding ECHOs aren’t as accurate for measurements as CT scans and MRIs.

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@sarastewart

Echos give other data that CT contrast don't. One example is valve function and condition.

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Profile picture for chrisn61 @chrisn61

I was also diagnosed in December '23. I have never had any symptoms. My aneurysm was found in a checkup with my general practitioner after my 65 yr old brother died suddenly from an unexpected heart attack or aortic dissection. We don't know for sure because the autopsy that I had requested wasn't done. In December '23 my CT scan showed an ascending aortic dilation of 4.2, but missed an aortic root aneurysm. My echocardiogram that same day measured my ascending aorta dilation at 4.3, and found my aortic root aneurysm at 4.5. I was referred to a cardiologist in town for further testing and I got an echo from him in February that measured my ascending aorta at 4.1 and my Aortic root at 4.2. I got into Mayo in March, and my cardiologist there didn't like and was confused by the February echo and so I had another that day and it measured my ascending aorta at 4.2 and my aortic root at 4.7. For a number of reasons, he referred me to their congenital aorta specialist who did a Ct Scan with contrast that showed my ascending aorta at 4.1 and my aortic root at 4.8. I'm meeting with a geneticist at Mayo next month, and the congenital aorta specialist says that if DNA testing finds a genetic marker for this, she would recommend I look at surgery options now with the 4.8 measurement because genetically caused aneurysms are more dangerous sooner. If no marker is found she recommends that I get an echocardiagram one time per year, and to evaluate surgical options once the aortic root reaches 5.0. I am so glad I was able to get into the Mayo system. There are handful of hospital systems that are world class for aorta issues - and I would highly recommend you make sure that yours is one of them. Best of luck to you on this journey!

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@chrisn61

The problem with DNA testing, only about 20% of the genetic causes have been identified. If one of the known markers aren't found doesn't really mean its a negative finding, but inconclusive. That is how the Mayo geneticist gave me the results. It just meant I didn't have one of those known ~20%.

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Profile picture for geocirese @geocirese

Hi,
I was diagnoised in Decemebr of 2023. At that time a cardilogist read my dialiation at 4.9 with an echocardiogram I'm getting varied dilatation growth rates anywhere from 4.6 with a Gated CT scan (April 24) to a 5.1 with a recent (May 24) echocardiogram. Also getting conflicted reports on which test is more accurate for the aortic root measurment. One surgeon say the CT scan is the best and another claims the Echo is better??? I went for another CT scan just the other day but the radiologist opted out due to the dye needed and my only having one kidney. I'll confer with the surgeon this week. I've seen several cardiologist and two surgeons at this point, again, with conflicting views on the more accurate test. At this point it's check with CT scan every 6 months.

Jump to this post

@geocirese
I worked in cardiac echo and cath labs for over a decade. I ran an imaging training program. Measurements are somewhat in the eye of the beholder. First, consistency of imaging mode is important. Compare echo to echo or CT to CT for growth rate. Second, I go to the same place with same machine if possible. Third, no blood vessel is absolutely uniform in size and contour. So if you measure a little bit higher up or lower down on the vessel you may get some variation. Also if you have 3 people measure the same image you may get slight differences in each measurement. If you measure at the peak flow of a ventricular contraction it may be a mm more than in diastole (hence gating to the ekg helps comparative accuracy). I personally trust echo with a good tech more because they can move around and make sure they are getting the best perpendicular slice when they measure and can scan up and down the entire length so you see a more complete set of pictures - not just a single shot.
Bottom line - all measurements have a range of accuracy and error. So consistency - if one echo shows 4.2 and six months later shows 4.1 or 4.3 - in my mind no significant difference. For me - measure in the same modality for best comparisons. Also of note - dye studies light up inner diameter and echo and non-contrast show walls, inner and outer diameter - therefore another source of difference - again, compare only same modality in my world.

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Profile picture for k3b @k3b

@geocirese
I worked in cardiac echo and cath labs for over a decade. I ran an imaging training program. Measurements are somewhat in the eye of the beholder. First, consistency of imaging mode is important. Compare echo to echo or CT to CT for growth rate. Second, I go to the same place with same machine if possible. Third, no blood vessel is absolutely uniform in size and contour. So if you measure a little bit higher up or lower down on the vessel you may get some variation. Also if you have 3 people measure the same image you may get slight differences in each measurement. If you measure at the peak flow of a ventricular contraction it may be a mm more than in diastole (hence gating to the ekg helps comparative accuracy). I personally trust echo with a good tech more because they can move around and make sure they are getting the best perpendicular slice when they measure and can scan up and down the entire length so you see a more complete set of pictures - not just a single shot.
Bottom line - all measurements have a range of accuracy and error. So consistency - if one echo shows 4.2 and six months later shows 4.1 or 4.3 - in my mind no significant difference. For me - measure in the same modality for best comparisons. Also of note - dye studies light up inner diameter and echo and non-contrast show walls, inner and outer diameter - therefore another source of difference - again, compare only same modality in my world.

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@k3b
I think you may have cleared some answers for myself. So, the bottom line seems to be consistency in measuring and using the same preferred test for results to remain consistent.
This is the same impression I got from the cardiac surgeon with the fact of using the same test every 6 months in my case. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and expertise.

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