ADT & Diet: What are others generally eating in a day?

@zzotte
Oh, I absolutely agree : ))) - the bigger variety if healthy stuff we eat , the better 👯‍♀️ : )))

@zzotte

"Statistical data shows that Asian and Pacific Islander men have the lowest documented incidence and diagnosis rates of prostate cancer compared to other major racial and ethnic groups globally and in the United States. Data from the National Institutes of Health (.gov) and Stanford University indicate an average rate of roughly 59.3 per 100,000 men, which is significantly lower than rates seen in Caucasian, Hispanic, and Black populations."

The belief is that it is because of soy consumption (milk, tofu, soy sauce, etc).

Over-consumption of anything can cause problems, even consuming too much water. lol

So yeah, normal amount of dietary soy is OK - eating tons of it (or anything else ) is not . ; )

Soy contains high levels of phytoestrogens, which are plant compounds called isoflavones that structurally mimic human estrogen. Now that we have PATCH study showing that estrogen patch works as well as ADT for prostate cancer suppression , I do not see how any doctor can put soy in "questionable" category ???

@surftohealth88 While Soy is generally accepted as being ‘good’ for PCa, there are MANY variables that affect its ability to exert positive effects on any given population. In fact, it has both androgenic and estrogenic effects, so which one is doing the job??
I read an 12 page article on ICUROLOGY.ORG which for some strange reason I cannot seem to paste to the forum, exploring the different kinds of soy products and the men it positively affects.
In a stunning turnaround, it seems to have NO effect on Asian men - something that’s been drummed into our heads for decades; it does, however, have a positive effect on Latino and Black men.
Also, the benefit is directly related to the grams of unfermented soy (milk - NOT tofu!) consumed per day and that # is approx 150 grams…a LOT!
Finally, any benefit at all was small and ONLY clinically significant in men with small, localized PCa or low grade PCa; it had ZERO effect on men with intermediate grade or higher.
So all the talk about the wonders of soy seem highly exaggerated.
I urge anyone pursuing soy as an alternative to dairy to find this article and read it; it is a meta analysis of ALL studies ever done relating to soy and PCa and covers millions of men in those studies.
If I can find a way to download it here I will…Best,
Phil

@heavyphil
My husband is now consuming soy milk and whey powder as extra protein source per his nutritionist suggestion, so any benefit however small is welcome ; ). He is light eater in general, eats fish or chicken for dinner and that is faaaarrr from being enough for a person who will be on ADT for 18 months. So - soy and whey it is 👍 : ))) ! He actually gained muscle in those 2 months of extra protein and weight lifting - feels great and looks great 🥰.

All things that help in "small amount" cumulatively do help.
All tings that "do harm in small amount" cumulatively do some harm.

@surftohealth88 I totally agree with the notion that any effort - no matter how small - is a positive step.
But there is so much conflicting evidence when it comes to the subjects of dairy and soy…mind numbing!
Some are retrospective meta analyses, some are done only in vitro, and some are purely anecdotal.
For dairy, Some studies cite casein, others IGF-1, others the fat content and some - the estrogens…
For soy, it’s the type of soy (fermented vs non fermented), the nationality of the man eating it, and whether it does anything at all in grades higher than G3+3…
However, most of the studies end with the same caveat: we don’t know for sure because of the unknown genetic/behavioralfactors present.
Individuals raised on soy in a country which has used it for millennia may
have a distinct genetic advantage over those men from countries who never used soy.
So just as insects and animals have evolved over thousands of years and have been nourished by the plants which have co-evolved with them, so too have humans, over time, evolved by what they’ve eaten.
So just because a certain Asian has a lower incidence of PCa because he eats more soy than the average Westerner, it does not necessarily follow that the Westerner will share that advantage.
Of course, you have to do what seems best in your own situation. My reading (I can’t call it research) tells me that there is no smoking gun when it comes to dairy…but maybe some bullets.
Soy too MAY be a help, but certainly not for someone with a high Gleason or Decipher Score…so why bother eating it?
I personally now drink 1% milk at times and eat 0% Greek yogurt every single day; many of the studies I’ve read point to the milkfat as a ‘possible’ culprit, and lowfat dairy has not been shown to be a factor in PCa recurrence, while higher fat dairy has.
But I myself have suffered recurrence 🤔 so I’ve come to accept that things might just be a bit out of my control, I should enjoy the foods I like (in moderation!) and get whatever future treatment I might need from the best doctors out there. More than that I cannot do…Best,
Phil

@heavyphil

Boy that's a lot to take in my friend! What I gather from this is nothing alone with keep us from recurrence. I think I'll stick to almond milk. I also stopped doing greek yogurt and switched to non-dairy yogurt. It's all so damn confusing! I really appreciate what you've said and may make some small changes in my diet. Thanks again man and best of luck to you!!!!!

Doug

@dpayton
It can be confusing if one goes into hair splitting mode - the fact is however, healthy diet with predominantly veggies and fruits is healthy lol, it is as simple as that 😉.

You will not find a single study about that that states opposite. Same goes for soy. You will find studies that say "no benefit seen" and studies that say "meaningful benefit seen" but you will not find a single one stating - do not eat soy. (Maybe not advised for breast cancer patients due to estrogenic effect, but that is isolated and special group of patients; Or for castrate resistant VERY advanced cases where any steroid can have some adverse effects. ) UCSF advises PC patients to include soy regularly in their diet.

But it is opposite for cow milk - you will find studies saying "Inconclusive" or "negative effects observed", but you will not find a single one advising that it is good to "drink cow milk". Choice is very rational, actually.

No single food can cure cancer but healthy nutrition can help our body heal and fight and stay strong as long as possible. 👍 Almond milk is great - just not enough protein if somebody is looking for good protein source. So enjoy your almond milk : ))) 💗 and add some extra beans and quinoa to your meals, or some extra fish - it does not have to be fancy salmon, it can be sardine, tuna etc.

I personally love veggies and fruits and soy products so for me choice is very, very simple - it was always my choice lol because I like it : )))). I am not food motivated in general - I actually some days skip a meal since I find it a "waste of time" lol and have more fun things to do LMAO

@surftohealth88
It’s the fat in milk that’s the problem. Nonfat milk does not have the issues. Over the years I’ve seen many reports about the fact that milk With fat in it is a problem for prostate cancer patients.

I make my daily cappuccino with steamed non fat milk, and it works great, Better than milk with fat in it

@heavyphil

Boy that's a lot to take in my friend! What I gather from this is nothing alone with keep us from recurrence. I think I'll stick to almond milk. I also stopped doing greek yogurt and switched to non-dairy yogurt. It's all so damn confusing! I really appreciate what you've said and may make some small changes in my diet. Thanks again man and best of luck to you!!!!!

Doug

@jeffmarc

It is possible - studies show different things , some are even done to the level of protein type and supposedly casein has bad effect on PC and whey part does not - I mean, having some small amount of milk in coffee definitely can not have any effect : ))). I personally consume 1% milk for coffee in small amount - perhaps total of 2 oz for the whole day of multiple cappuccino cups consumption ; ) and it is because it is impossible to "froth" substitutes . My husband drinks coffee "strait" lol, always did.

UCSF recommends reduction or complete elimination of milk products and especially whole milk products.

According to them : " Men who consumed 3 or more servings a day of diary products had 76% increased risk of overall mortality and 141 % higher prostate cancer specific mortality in comparison to men who consumed less than one serving ", so you are definitely in safe category 👍🥰.

DISCLAIMER : If anybody has a problem with USCF guidelines please contact UCSF directly LOL ; )))