When does pain and muscle stiffness subside after pacemaker surgery

Posted by diab @diab, 4 days ago

Help! It’s been 24 hours after my 3 wire pacemaker defibrillator under the skin surgery and the pain and stiffness still seem very strong, when does it subsides??

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Your cutaneous and sub-cutaneous tissues were damaged during the procedure. There is the cutting and bleeding to be dealt with, plus all that inflammation. It's minor, sort of like striking your thumb smartly with a good sized hammer. It won't be a lotta fun for several days, but soon you'll realize you feel fine again.

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Profile picture for gloaming @gloaming

Your cutaneous and sub-cutaneous tissues were damaged during the procedure. There is the cutting and bleeding to be dealt with, plus all that inflammation. It's minor, sort of like striking your thumb smartly with a good sized hammer. It won't be a lotta fun for several days, but soon you'll realize you feel fine again.

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@gloaming
Thank you . I just was not prepared for this type of pain .

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Profile picture for diab @diab

@gloaming
Thank you . I just was not prepared for this type of pain .

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@diab
Hello diab
I felt compelled to answer your post because as someone who has had a 3 wire (biventricular) pacemaker with a defibrillator - also known as a CRT-D - implanted fairly recently, I can confirm that the pain and discomfort you are experiencing are real and not as minor as "striking your thumb with a good sized hammer." I remember the procedure and its aftermath quite well.
When one looks at the procedural notes, as I have done, you come to understand that there is, among other things, a fair amount of cutting, yes, but also a lot of stitching done. Once the leads are in place (for example, the right ventricular ICD lead is navigated to the mid right septum) and have been tested, then they are stitched to your pectoralis fascia. The same applies for the right atrial lead.
The left lead, in my case a quadripolar lead, was then guided using various wires and occlusive venography, to a favourable vein within the chamber in the vicinity of the coronary sinus, attached, tested, and secured by stitching to the pectoralis muscle.
All of the leads, after placement, are secured into your heart muscle by "screwing" them into it. This method has made them much more secure. Once upon a time, the leads were secured by "hooking" (think of something like a gaff hook) them into the muscle but that method resulted in more frequent episodes of the leads becoming detached. And because the leads are attached to very specific locations within your heart muscle, they are always attached and never static.
The wires are then attached to the generator, which in my case was enclosed in an antibiotic Tyrx pouch, then secured to prevent migration by stitching the generator to the pectoralis muscle. Indeed, mine is is installed in a little pocket the electrophysiologist created in my pectoral muscle. (I suspect he was not particularly gentle when he created this pocket. It certainly did not feel like he was afterwards. But he had a job to do and I do not have any complaints.) Needless to say, your pectoralis muscle takes a fair amount of "abuse", for the lack of a better word. And, yes, it is indeed, very sore and stiff for about a month, maybe more, after the surgery. If you have ever pulled a muscle, be it a sprained ankle or muscle in your back, you know that recovery takes some time. And the pectoral muscle in your left upper quadrant has been poked and pulled and generally treated like a pincushion so it will take time to heal. But gradually, the discomfort will ease.
If your electrophysiologist prescribed any pain medications, please take them as advised. I was prescribed Tylenol 3 and took 3 or 4 of them. After that, I could use regular Tylenol.
One thing that helped tremendously was a cool gel pack placed over the incision area. As with any muscle inflammation, a cold compress helps with swelling. I would recommend you wrap the gel pack in a towel so it does not come into contact with your skin, and place it lightly on the site for 10, 15 or 20 minutes . In addition, gentle heat helped me, as well. I use a reheatable cloth bag filled with wheat, of all things. I reheat in the microwave. I bought it on Amazon. It is called a Magic Bag. The good thing about it is: a) the heat dissipates slowly so you don't have to worry about burning yourself and b) the wheat in the bag absorbs a little moisture while in the microwave. Moist heat penetrates better than dry heat. Again, use a cloth between the bag and your skin. Especially in your early days of recovery.
I would stress you follow the instructions you received about activity restrictions for 6 weeks. Experiencing a displacement of any of the leads is something you want to avoid. But do move your shoulder gently to avoid a "frozen" shoulder situation but always with your restrictions in mind. I suspect during your follow up appointment, your clinician will review some gentle arm and shoulder exercise with you. If they don't, ask for some suggestions.
Also try not to touch the area of the incision after the protective bandaging is removed. I know of a couple of people who, absentmindedly , did that and the incision became infected. You really don't want that. You have had enough pain.
You are in early days of your recovery but barring any complications, you should feel better in a week or so and much better by Christmas. I sincerely hope so. Please keep us informed of your progress. We are all here to help one another on this journey by sharing our experiences.
Best Wishes for the Festive Season.

REPLY
Profile picture for cottagecountry @cottagecountry

@diab
Hello diab
I felt compelled to answer your post because as someone who has had a 3 wire (biventricular) pacemaker with a defibrillator - also known as a CRT-D - implanted fairly recently, I can confirm that the pain and discomfort you are experiencing are real and not as minor as "striking your thumb with a good sized hammer." I remember the procedure and its aftermath quite well.
When one looks at the procedural notes, as I have done, you come to understand that there is, among other things, a fair amount of cutting, yes, but also a lot of stitching done. Once the leads are in place (for example, the right ventricular ICD lead is navigated to the mid right septum) and have been tested, then they are stitched to your pectoralis fascia. The same applies for the right atrial lead.
The left lead, in my case a quadripolar lead, was then guided using various wires and occlusive venography, to a favourable vein within the chamber in the vicinity of the coronary sinus, attached, tested, and secured by stitching to the pectoralis muscle.
All of the leads, after placement, are secured into your heart muscle by "screwing" them into it. This method has made them much more secure. Once upon a time, the leads were secured by "hooking" (think of something like a gaff hook) them into the muscle but that method resulted in more frequent episodes of the leads becoming detached. And because the leads are attached to very specific locations within your heart muscle, they are always attached and never static.
The wires are then attached to the generator, which in my case was enclosed in an antibiotic Tyrx pouch, then secured to prevent migration by stitching the generator to the pectoralis muscle. Indeed, mine is is installed in a little pocket the electrophysiologist created in my pectoral muscle. (I suspect he was not particularly gentle when he created this pocket. It certainly did not feel like he was afterwards. But he had a job to do and I do not have any complaints.) Needless to say, your pectoralis muscle takes a fair amount of "abuse", for the lack of a better word. And, yes, it is indeed, very sore and stiff for about a month, maybe more, after the surgery. If you have ever pulled a muscle, be it a sprained ankle or muscle in your back, you know that recovery takes some time. And the pectoral muscle in your left upper quadrant has been poked and pulled and generally treated like a pincushion so it will take time to heal. But gradually, the discomfort will ease.
If your electrophysiologist prescribed any pain medications, please take them as advised. I was prescribed Tylenol 3 and took 3 or 4 of them. After that, I could use regular Tylenol.
One thing that helped tremendously was a cool gel pack placed over the incision area. As with any muscle inflammation, a cold compress helps with swelling. I would recommend you wrap the gel pack in a towel so it does not come into contact with your skin, and place it lightly on the site for 10, 15 or 20 minutes . In addition, gentle heat helped me, as well. I use a reheatable cloth bag filled with wheat, of all things. I reheat in the microwave. I bought it on Amazon. It is called a Magic Bag. The good thing about it is: a) the heat dissipates slowly so you don't have to worry about burning yourself and b) the wheat in the bag absorbs a little moisture while in the microwave. Moist heat penetrates better than dry heat. Again, use a cloth between the bag and your skin. Especially in your early days of recovery.
I would stress you follow the instructions you received about activity restrictions for 6 weeks. Experiencing a displacement of any of the leads is something you want to avoid. But do move your shoulder gently to avoid a "frozen" shoulder situation but always with your restrictions in mind. I suspect during your follow up appointment, your clinician will review some gentle arm and shoulder exercise with you. If they don't, ask for some suggestions.
Also try not to touch the area of the incision after the protective bandaging is removed. I know of a couple of people who, absentmindedly , did that and the incision became infected. You really don't want that. You have had enough pain.
You are in early days of your recovery but barring any complications, you should feel better in a week or so and much better by Christmas. I sincerely hope so. Please keep us informed of your progress. We are all here to help one another on this journey by sharing our experiences.
Best Wishes for the Festive Season.

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@cottagecountry
Thank you. That was very helpful 🙏

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@diab
I have had 3 ICD/Pacemakers implanted since 2006. Mine was placed below my chest muscle thus a more complexed and involved surgery. It was placed below chest muscle as my skin was considered too thin.

With any surgery you are going to be sore and have irritation. I think important to know that you now have a foreign device under your skin. You body at first will try to fight it with inflammation. Over time the body will resort to encapsulating the device.

When that encapsulation happens it will reduce the inflammation and irritation. In other words it will get better as I have had 3 different surgeries. Did you get stiches or glue? Know that your skin has been stretched to get the device in and the device (in under skin like yours) will push upward.

Talk to your doctor (hope you have a EP) about what to do for discomfort. Mine suggested cold packs, but what you should do for your surgery should come from your surgeon and doctors not us on MCC.

I am passing on my experience with this after going through 3 surgeries now since 2006. The first one is always the worse as body really does not like something foreign in it. Did you surgeon go over what to do and not to do? The movement of your arm needs to be restricted for some time. Most of us learn to adapt to what is bothersome to us and restrict movement and activities to allow the surgery to heal.

I am do for another surgery in 3 years which will be my forth.

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It took me about 7 weeks to be able to move my left arm without pain and stiffness. My incision scar still alternates between burning and itching like mad. I form keloids (excessive scar tissue), so this is not abnormal.

REPLY
Profile picture for cottagecountry @cottagecountry

@diab
Hello diab
I felt compelled to answer your post because as someone who has had a 3 wire (biventricular) pacemaker with a defibrillator - also known as a CRT-D - implanted fairly recently, I can confirm that the pain and discomfort you are experiencing are real and not as minor as "striking your thumb with a good sized hammer." I remember the procedure and its aftermath quite well.
When one looks at the procedural notes, as I have done, you come to understand that there is, among other things, a fair amount of cutting, yes, but also a lot of stitching done. Once the leads are in place (for example, the right ventricular ICD lead is navigated to the mid right septum) and have been tested, then they are stitched to your pectoralis fascia. The same applies for the right atrial lead.
The left lead, in my case a quadripolar lead, was then guided using various wires and occlusive venography, to a favourable vein within the chamber in the vicinity of the coronary sinus, attached, tested, and secured by stitching to the pectoralis muscle.
All of the leads, after placement, are secured into your heart muscle by "screwing" them into it. This method has made them much more secure. Once upon a time, the leads were secured by "hooking" (think of something like a gaff hook) them into the muscle but that method resulted in more frequent episodes of the leads becoming detached. And because the leads are attached to very specific locations within your heart muscle, they are always attached and never static.
The wires are then attached to the generator, which in my case was enclosed in an antibiotic Tyrx pouch, then secured to prevent migration by stitching the generator to the pectoralis muscle. Indeed, mine is is installed in a little pocket the electrophysiologist created in my pectoral muscle. (I suspect he was not particularly gentle when he created this pocket. It certainly did not feel like he was afterwards. But he had a job to do and I do not have any complaints.) Needless to say, your pectoralis muscle takes a fair amount of "abuse", for the lack of a better word. And, yes, it is indeed, very sore and stiff for about a month, maybe more, after the surgery. If you have ever pulled a muscle, be it a sprained ankle or muscle in your back, you know that recovery takes some time. And the pectoral muscle in your left upper quadrant has been poked and pulled and generally treated like a pincushion so it will take time to heal. But gradually, the discomfort will ease.
If your electrophysiologist prescribed any pain medications, please take them as advised. I was prescribed Tylenol 3 and took 3 or 4 of them. After that, I could use regular Tylenol.
One thing that helped tremendously was a cool gel pack placed over the incision area. As with any muscle inflammation, a cold compress helps with swelling. I would recommend you wrap the gel pack in a towel so it does not come into contact with your skin, and place it lightly on the site for 10, 15 or 20 minutes . In addition, gentle heat helped me, as well. I use a reheatable cloth bag filled with wheat, of all things. I reheat in the microwave. I bought it on Amazon. It is called a Magic Bag. The good thing about it is: a) the heat dissipates slowly so you don't have to worry about burning yourself and b) the wheat in the bag absorbs a little moisture while in the microwave. Moist heat penetrates better than dry heat. Again, use a cloth between the bag and your skin. Especially in your early days of recovery.
I would stress you follow the instructions you received about activity restrictions for 6 weeks. Experiencing a displacement of any of the leads is something you want to avoid. But do move your shoulder gently to avoid a "frozen" shoulder situation but always with your restrictions in mind. I suspect during your follow up appointment, your clinician will review some gentle arm and shoulder exercise with you. If they don't, ask for some suggestions.
Also try not to touch the area of the incision after the protective bandaging is removed. I know of a couple of people who, absentmindedly , did that and the incision became infected. You really don't want that. You have had enough pain.
You are in early days of your recovery but barring any complications, you should feel better in a week or so and much better by Christmas. I sincerely hope so. Please keep us informed of your progress. We are all here to help one another on this journey by sharing our experiences.
Best Wishes for the Festive Season.

Jump to this post

@cottagecountry

If you know: Does a pacemaker involve all of that cutting, sewing, screwing things to muscles, too?

REPLY
Profile picture for earther @earther

@cottagecountry

If you know: Does a pacemaker involve all of that cutting, sewing, screwing things to muscles, too?

Jump to this post

Basically, yes. A traditional dual chamber pacemaker has 2 leads instead
of 3, but the procedure is generally the same. However, there are now
leadless pacemakers. From what I understand, they are currently only
single chamber units. They are surgically inserted, using a catheter, into
the heart via a blood vessel, most often in the groin. But they are also
attached to the interior of the heart to avoid migration. However, since
there are not any leads to contend with, there is nothing to stitch to any
chest muscle.
What I have is a pacemaker, one designed for people diagnosed with heart
failure. Mine comes with a defibrillator because I am at risk of
experiencing sudden cardiac arrest.

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I have the same diagnoses + 4 arrhythmias (including AFib and bradycardia) and a couple of others, so I'm expecting attempts to persuade me at 2 appointments next week to consent to a pacemaker. I was persuaded by Gemini (Google AI -- not intentionally but just by points conveyed) to do it, but after all I've read here the last couple of weeks, don't think I can face it. Sounds awful. And a year to get used to it and get past constant interference with movement and pain? Ugh.

I'm 80, not a long life left, and LIVING as fully as I can (already limited), not staying alive by any means is my priority at this stage. I don't want to ever have general anesthetic again, because it has taken me an entire year to even partially get my mind, memory, and who I am back after having it twice in less than a month last year. It requires general anesthetic, right?

Sudden cardiac arrest, to me, would be a blessing in that it's a reasonably easy way to go. Many far worse ways. But worse than death is a stroke that puts me in some "care facility." So it is a difficult decision with serious tradeoffs and not one anyone else can or should make for us.

REPLY
Profile picture for earther @earther

I have the same diagnoses + 4 arrhythmias (including AFib and bradycardia) and a couple of others, so I'm expecting attempts to persuade me at 2 appointments next week to consent to a pacemaker. I was persuaded by Gemini (Google AI -- not intentionally but just by points conveyed) to do it, but after all I've read here the last couple of weeks, don't think I can face it. Sounds awful. And a year to get used to it and get past constant interference with movement and pain? Ugh.

I'm 80, not a long life left, and LIVING as fully as I can (already limited), not staying alive by any means is my priority at this stage. I don't want to ever have general anesthetic again, because it has taken me an entire year to even partially get my mind, memory, and who I am back after having it twice in less than a month last year. It requires general anesthetic, right?

Sudden cardiac arrest, to me, would be a blessing in that it's a reasonably easy way to go. Many far worse ways. But worse than death is a stroke that puts me in some "care facility." So it is a difficult decision with serious tradeoffs and not one anyone else can or should make for us.

Jump to this post

@earther
Usually, the surgery is done under a local anesthetic with some light sedation so one is comfortably "asleep". But please confirm with your physician.

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