Pain and depression, the one two punch.

Posted by Stephen @wsh66, Mon, May 18 11:48am

I have dealt with both pain and depression for more than 20 years. I’m ok with both now but they have taken a toll. It seemed it was easier to get good treatment for depression than for pain. I’m guessing in this new anti opioid environment, it even harder, if not impossible to get adequate pain management. I’m part of a type or group of patients who did not contribute to the problem. I’m over 66, my pain is permanent. I’m mostly disabled by pain and will be for the rest of my life. Too far gone to be helped by the PT I did for 15 years and most exercise increases my pain level. There are no more surgeries being suggested. I’m officially receiving palliative care at a very fine pain clinic.

I don’t know what I would do if my narcotic treatment were taken away. I know many of you are facing that situation and I wonder how your coping and how it’s affecting your depression?

@stephen

I deal with this. I'm 62. Here's what I think about when I think about how cruel it is to withhold pain meds from those who cannot function without them:

– doctors take an oath to Do No Harm. There is absolutely harm done when a patient's quality of life is *lost* due to chronic pain.
– I'm kind of amused by the current environment that stresses doctors and patients work "together" on the patient's health issues. Boy, not in the case of pain management.

I currently have a Rx for Oxycodone for unbearable back pain that is usually managed with very expensive and complex interventions like radio frequency ablations. I only have the prescription because of the COVID19 crisis and my pain clinic's closure. I dread asking for a renewal because, somehow, the pain docs make you feel so guilty for doing so.

I'm pretty fed up. Those of us who have nothing to do with the opiod crisis shouldn't be punished for the actions of those who are part of the problem.

REPLY
@babette

@stephen

I deal with this. I'm 62. Here's what I think about when I think about how cruel it is to withhold pain meds from those who cannot function without them:

– doctors take an oath to Do No Harm. There is absolutely harm done when a patient's quality of life is *lost* due to chronic pain.
– I'm kind of amused by the current environment that stresses doctors and patients work "together" on the patient's health issues. Boy, not in the case of pain management.

I currently have a Rx for Oxycodone for unbearable back pain that is usually managed with very expensive and complex interventions like radio frequency ablations. I only have the prescription because of the COVID19 crisis and my pain clinic's closure. I dread asking for a renewal because, somehow, the pain docs make you feel so guilty for doing so.

I'm pretty fed up. Those of us who have nothing to do with the opiod crisis shouldn't be punished for the actions of those who are part of the problem.

Jump to this post

Babette, search wsh66 and look at my post on the chronic pain discussion. Same title as this thread. I go into more detail on this subject and what I can do about it. We can change this if we stand together and tell our stories but first we need to see a bigger picture.

REPLY

I truly wish someone from Mayo would respond to your question. I’m going through some of the same things and would love to get an opinion from the pain pain management team at Mayo.

Liked by gayle, Kathie Koch

REPLY
@babette

@stephen

I deal with this. I'm 62. Here's what I think about when I think about how cruel it is to withhold pain meds from those who cannot function without them:

– doctors take an oath to Do No Harm. There is absolutely harm done when a patient's quality of life is *lost* due to chronic pain.
– I'm kind of amused by the current environment that stresses doctors and patients work "together" on the patient's health issues. Boy, not in the case of pain management.

I currently have a Rx for Oxycodone for unbearable back pain that is usually managed with very expensive and complex interventions like radio frequency ablations. I only have the prescription because of the COVID19 crisis and my pain clinic's closure. I dread asking for a renewal because, somehow, the pain docs make you feel so guilty for doing so.

I'm pretty fed up. Those of us who have nothing to do with the opiod crisis shouldn't be punished for the actions of those who are part of the problem.

Jump to this post

@babette Hi this is lilypaws I am very sorry you are in so much pain. I am going to Mayo Clinic at Rochester by a referral last year by my doctor. I am now going to have a spinal fusion from T10 to my pelvis. Sounds like you have done everything for your pain wherever you live. I was on hydrocodone last year when I saw the surgeon and pain doctor. The pain doctor did an ablation, which did not work. The surgeon told me that if I was going to have surgery I would have to get off my pain Med, which I did with no problem, but I am in a lot of pain off and on. The surgeon told me that his medicine that he would be giving me would not work as well if I was still on hydrocodone, so I have been in pain, but now going to have surgery. Have you thought about being referred to Mayo or a better hospital that could diagnose you? I gave up on the pain clinic I was going too. They were not helping me at all. I had the ablation done at Mayo and it only helped for a short time. Try and get some more pain med, your doctor should not make you feel guilty at least my doctor didn't when I was on them. Did you try to get your pain med from your primary doctor instead of your pain doctor. Makes me feel angry by what you are going through, because I know what it's like. I have severe back pain too. Do you know what's wrong with your back? Take care and I hope you get better.

REPLY

@wsh66 Frankly, Stephen, I think about suicide quite often. I think it is a rational solution to an intense problem. Only people who are utterly suffering understand this. I was a vet tech many years ago, and watched animals being put to sleep in literally, moments. They would just get off their legs, lay down, and that was it. First few times I helped the vet I worked for with this, I cried like a baby. But I began to see it as a gift. I don't ever think I would do it, for a multitude of reasons, but I understand it as a rational choice. Right now, with Covid 19, my trial for a DRG stimulator is on hold, even with elective surgeries starting. Many reasons it is on hold for now. I am hoping to find a new pain doc to do it. Such politics involved, and the severe pain sufferer just is at the mercy of others. Meanwhile, I am doped up on marijuana and Kratom. I am a fighter. I will limp around the neighborhood, drive my car anywhere to distract myself from myself! You have a warrior spirit. I have read so many of your posts, and I so admire your fight and intelligence. Be safe, Stephen Lori Renee

Liked by lilypaws

REPLY

Thank you for your kind words. I'm starting to think a class action law suit may be the answer. We need to find some lawyers with first hand experience with their own pain. I hope none of us commit suicide. My responsibilities to my family stayed my hand. Before the pain clinic my life was out of control and not worth carrying on. Love and Blessings

Liked by migizii, lorirenee1

REPLY

@wsh66, @lorirenee1 I feel for you guys. I could get hydrocodone, but a year ago my doctor at Mayo told me I had to get off of it if he was going to be doing surgery ,because then what he used would not work as well. Well I listened and got off of it and have been in a lot of pain. I had an ablation first and then had to see an endocrinologist, which took time. I then had to go on Tymlos to strengthen my bones for 6 weeks before the surgery . Finally now I'm having my surgery on June 9th. So, after the surgery I will be on Percocet, Tramadol and valium and they will come home with me.
I feel for both of you. My doctor knew I was in pain and gave me hydrocodone, but it did seem like my pain doctor didn't agree with it. He didn't help me much except for the epidurals.
Lorirenee1. It scares me that you think of suicide, so it must be really bad pain. I'm glad you have marijuana and Kraton (what is Kraton)?
May God Bless both of you and I hope you get what you need to survive. My thoughts and prayers are with both of you.

2

REPLY
@lilypaws

@wsh66, @lorirenee1 I feel for you guys. I could get hydrocodone, but a year ago my doctor at Mayo told me I had to get off of it if he was going to be doing surgery ,because then what he used would not work as well. Well I listened and got off of it and have been in a lot of pain. I had an ablation first and then had to see an endocrinologist, which took time. I then had to go on Tymlos to strengthen my bones for 6 weeks before the surgery . Finally now I'm having my surgery on June 9th. So, after the surgery I will be on Percocet, Tramadol and valium and they will come home with me.
I feel for both of you. My doctor knew I was in pain and gave me hydrocodone, but it did seem like my pain doctor didn't agree with it. He didn't help me much except for the epidurals.
Lorirenee1. It scares me that you think of suicide, so it must be really bad pain. I'm glad you have marijuana and Kraton (what is Kraton)?
May God Bless both of you and I hope you get what you need to survive. My thoughts and prayers are with both of you.

2

Jump to this post

@lilypaws Reading what you've just wrote here and I agree. All of what you said regarding opiod therapy and pain management. My PCP was kind enough to believe and understand my pain and prescribe me hydrocodone. My pain management drs provide me needles only such as radio frequency ablations and epidurals or, implants of course. Neither PM or my Neuroligist will prescribe an opiod. The stigma is real and felt strongly by communities, advertising, politics. I feel guilty and shamed by this but, at the same time feel truly blessed that I'm the lucky one who receives such help and blessed that an opiod allows me some of my life back. Do I like being in this position and using them? Hell no! It weighs on me daily and I will continue to fight for other solutions.

My heart goes out to everyone who has ever had a suicidal thought from exacerbation of daily pain and all that it brings. I can say I have never been there but, yes depression presents. In the end, my family, my children motivate me and I believe I have good to provide this world still. Since I've been sick, I do think of death. I guess because there have been days when I feel like I'm heading in that direction and envision my funeral, what it would be like. Sorry, I hate to bring negativity up but, if we all know we are not alone and are here for each other….my hope is, that it will help.
Be good to yourselves everyone.

@lilypaws Thank for the conversation starter and stay positive, as I hear in your message of hope.

@lorirenee1 You are a fighting spirit…I feeling this through your messages, despite being tested by your feet.

@wsh66 You provide much experience and knowledge. Thank you for your insight.

Be well
Rachel

REPLY

I 74 years old and I am in constant pain and have been for at least 4 years. Last October I had A L4 through S1 spinal fusion surgery at Mayo Clinic in AZ, which only increased my pain. I felt the surgeon did not want to treat my pain and told me to find a pain doctor. I am now taking Dilaudid which I have to jump through hopes to get, My insurance will not cover this and I have to have urine test, to continue to get this pain medicine I need. I agree, something needs to be done. Pain takes away your life, breaks your spirit and you always feel unwell. Something needs to be done. Pain medication is a much needed medication for survival.
,

Liked by migizii

REPLY
@ceceilia

I 74 years old and I am in constant pain and have been for at least 4 years. Last October I had A L4 through S1 spinal fusion surgery at Mayo Clinic in AZ, which only increased my pain. I felt the surgeon did not want to treat my pain and told me to find a pain doctor. I am now taking Dilaudid which I have to jump through hopes to get, My insurance will not cover this and I have to have urine test, to continue to get this pain medicine I need. I agree, something needs to be done. Pain takes away your life, breaks your spirit and you always feel unwell. Something needs to be done. Pain medication is a much needed medication for survival.
,

Jump to this post

I'm sorry to hear this. That's so unfair. They're giving you that urinalysis to prove that you're actually taking your drugs and not selling them and that you're not using any illegal drugs which would point you out as a drug addict. It is actually a good thing and you should encourage your doctor to continue that practice. It gives the doctor some cover should he be accused of giving out too many drugs to the wrong people. About cost, have you asked your insurance company what narcotic they would cover ? It seems odd that they don't want to pay for dilaudid because it's one of the cheapest medicines that we have.

I take Dilaudid too but I get mine from an intrathecal pump surgically implanted in my belly. I take between 4 and 5 mg per 24 hours. That's a small dose but it is 100 to 300 times more effective than taking it orally. It also prevents the side effects of grogginess and constipation. Better yet as I can't touch these drugs I can't alter the way I take them I can't sell them it puts me Beyond reproach in the eyes of the doctor's as not being a drug addict. Search these chats under my handle wsh66. I've written quite a bit about the pump. The four milligrams is automatic. The other milligram is divided into 10 doses that I can give myself, one an hour over 24 hours. My doctor also continues a small oral dose for later in the day when the rest of the medication is not adequate to deal with my increasing pain. The only downside is I can see is I will have to have a surgery every five to seven years to replace my pump and I have to drive down to M Health, about an hour away, once every 10 weeks to have the old medicine removed and new medicine put into my pump via a small needle. We need to find a better solution to this crisis than just cutting off people whose lives were saved by getting pain medication.

REPLY
@rwinney

@lilypaws Reading what you've just wrote here and I agree. All of what you said regarding opiod therapy and pain management. My PCP was kind enough to believe and understand my pain and prescribe me hydrocodone. My pain management drs provide me needles only such as radio frequency ablations and epidurals or, implants of course. Neither PM or my Neuroligist will prescribe an opiod. The stigma is real and felt strongly by communities, advertising, politics. I feel guilty and shamed by this but, at the same time feel truly blessed that I'm the lucky one who receives such help and blessed that an opiod allows me some of my life back. Do I like being in this position and using them? Hell no! It weighs on me daily and I will continue to fight for other solutions.

My heart goes out to everyone who has ever had a suicidal thought from exacerbation of daily pain and all that it brings. I can say I have never been there but, yes depression presents. In the end, my family, my children motivate me and I believe I have good to provide this world still. Since I've been sick, I do think of death. I guess because there have been days when I feel like I'm heading in that direction and envision my funeral, what it would be like. Sorry, I hate to bring negativity up but, if we all know we are not alone and are here for each other….my hope is, that it will help.
Be good to yourselves everyone.

@lilypaws Thank for the conversation starter and stay positive, as I hear in your message of hope.

@lorirenee1 You are a fighting spirit…I feeling this through your messages, despite being tested by your feet.

@wsh66 You provide much experience and knowledge. Thank you for your insight.

Be well
Rachel

Jump to this post

You should never feel guilty about the appropriate use of pain meds. People who became addicted to pain medication became addicted because they took enough to get high. Their doctors are not responsible unless they prescribed such high levels that people got wasted and became addicted. There should be no more guilt associated with taking pain medication that is associated with taking an antihistamine or an anti-inflammatory or any other medicine. You Are Not Alone. There are thousands of us in the same situation. I'm doing everything I can to change this and I won't stop until I do.

REPLY
@wsh66

I'm sorry to hear this. That's so unfair. They're giving you that urinalysis to prove that you're actually taking your drugs and not selling them and that you're not using any illegal drugs which would point you out as a drug addict. It is actually a good thing and you should encourage your doctor to continue that practice. It gives the doctor some cover should he be accused of giving out too many drugs to the wrong people. About cost, have you asked your insurance company what narcotic they would cover ? It seems odd that they don't want to pay for dilaudid because it's one of the cheapest medicines that we have.

I take Dilaudid too but I get mine from an intrathecal pump surgically implanted in my belly. I take between 4 and 5 mg per 24 hours. That's a small dose but it is 100 to 300 times more effective than taking it orally. It also prevents the side effects of grogginess and constipation. Better yet as I can't touch these drugs I can't alter the way I take them I can't sell them it puts me Beyond reproach in the eyes of the doctor's as not being a drug addict. Search these chats under my handle wsh66. I've written quite a bit about the pump. The four milligrams is automatic. The other milligram is divided into 10 doses that I can give myself, one an hour over 24 hours. My doctor also continues a small oral dose for later in the day when the rest of the medication is not adequate to deal with my increasing pain. The only downside is I can see is I will have to have a surgery every five to seven years to replace my pump and I have to drive down to M Health, about an hour away, once every 10 weeks to have the old medicine removed and new medicine put into my pump via a small needle. We need to find a better solution to this crisis than just cutting off people whose lives were saved by getting pain medication.

Jump to this post

Thanks for the reply. My insurance covered dilaudid for 30 days and then quit. I will look under the handle wsh66 for information on Pain Pumps. Have you had any experience with spinal cord stimulator?

REPLY

Yes I was tested and evaluated for a spinal implant but was rejected from this option due to the trial. The pump gives me the best relief I've veer had. Prior to it's implant I was getting huge quantities of oral narcotics that were not very effective but which made me stupid and very very constipated.

REPLY

Thanks again. I thought my surgery was going to relieve my pain and I could start living again. Now, I am starting all over again. I will do more research on a pain pump. I looking at all options. Take care and be safe.

REPLY

@ceceilia this is lilypaws I'm a very feeling person and so sorry and sad your surgery did not relieve your pain. What type of surgery did you have? I'm having a spine fusion on June 9th. They first said they would have to go in my front and back, but now only my back, but from T-10 to my pelvis. It's a big surgery! They tested me to see if it would work and the test came back positive. I was just at Mayo Clinic at Rochester on Monday and they ran a whole bunch of tests. They all came out ok. I can't wait for June 9th, I'm in a lot of pain, but it will be better. I'm sorry your surgery did not work. My thoughts and prayers will be with you.

REPLY
Please login or register to post a reply.