Masks: How do you encourage people that they help?

Posted by tjdog @tjdog, Jun 23 1:51pm

I live in a retirement community. Many of my neighbors do not believe masks help stop the transmission of COVID-19. They use the Nextdoor app to post their feelings and “facts”. I usually try to convince them otherwise, but it seems to be fruitless. Today someone posted a picture of a warning on the box of disposable surgical masks (attached) to prove their point that masks, other than N95, don’t work. Can you give me some information that will help explain this warning and why these type of masks help. Thanks.

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@robbie1956

I have felt that wearing a mask (like the surgical one pictured) is at least some protection if you came around someone with the virus…it certainly can’t hurt….it has been stated by many to please wear a mask ….Dr.Fauci has pleaded with us Americans to please wear some kind of face mask or covering….social distance, length of time and proximity in crowded areas….hand washing..

And for myself, some hope that things will get better.

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@robbie1956– Masks protect others in case you have COVID-19 and don't realize it. This is why it is so important for everyone to wear a mask.

Dr. Gregory Poland explains why:

COVID-19: Mayo Clinic expert answers questions about masks after CDC updates its recommendation
https://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/discussion/covid-19-mayo-clinic-expert-answers-questions-about-masks-after-cdc-updates-its-recommendation/

COVID-19: How much protection do face masks offer?: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449

Does this clear things up for you?

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@sueinmn

My daughter, an ER nurse in Minneapolis, was here yesterday for an outdoor visit. She has been off work for 3 months due to her personal health risks, but is finally returning to a non-contact job tomorrow. However, she is closely involved with her union, so has been in daily contact with coworkers and management throughout her physical absence.

Now to get to the point – since the ENTIRE staff in the buildings, from cleaners to CEO, have been required to mask AT ALL TIMES, worker to worker and/or environmental transmission of Covid-19 has dropped by about 80 – 90%. These are not all brand new every shift N95 masks – those are for patient-facing staff – but rather surgical or cloth masks or N95 masks repeatedly sanitized and reused. Early in pandemic days, about an equal number of workers who never had patient contact were getting Covid as those who had regular contact – up to 100 people at a time were in quarantine. Right now, around 40-50 patient-facing personnel are out, but only 3 who never have patient contact. This is despite the fact that the still has many virus patients – and their Covid ICU continues to be above 50% capacity.

I encouraged her to get this information better quantified and get it to the department of health and the news outlets. So it appears that masks do help…

Sue

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That is really great news @sueinmn. Thank you for sharing. Hopefully the data/information can be shared outside to the media to encourage people to wear masks.

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@sueinmn

My daughter, an ER nurse in Minneapolis, was here yesterday for an outdoor visit. She has been off work for 3 months due to her personal health risks, but is finally returning to a non-contact job tomorrow. However, she is closely involved with her union, so has been in daily contact with coworkers and management throughout her physical absence.

Now to get to the point – since the ENTIRE staff in the buildings, from cleaners to CEO, have been required to mask AT ALL TIMES, worker to worker and/or environmental transmission of Covid-19 has dropped by about 80 – 90%. These are not all brand new every shift N95 masks – those are for patient-facing staff – but rather surgical or cloth masks or N95 masks repeatedly sanitized and reused. Early in pandemic days, about an equal number of workers who never had patient contact were getting Covid as those who had regular contact – up to 100 people at a time were in quarantine. Right now, around 40-50 patient-facing personnel are out, but only 3 who never have patient contact. This is despite the fact that the still has many virus patients – and their Covid ICU continues to be above 50% capacity.

I encouraged her to get this information better quantified and get it to the department of health and the news outlets. So it appears that masks do help…

Sue

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When I was at Mayo in Rochester a few weeks ago, I heard the same thing about the 80% – 90% drop in staff COVID19 cases when masks were required. The staff who are in direct contact with patients are also wearing clear protective eyewear, even over their own eyeglasses as an added layer of protection.

On a side note – I had to make an in-person bank transaction on Friday. The bank door was locked, and so I was met by a masked bank employee -in this instance, it was a small branch office so it was the office manager – who unlocked the door, and had me give my name and phone number when I entered. I was the only customer in the lobby, and I learned that it was for contact tracing if needed. After I completed my business, I thanked her for the added protection. I could not see her face that was hidden behind the mask, but her reaction indicated to me that she had never been thanked before!

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@merpreb

@zeiracorp– Yes, there are people who are doing this, reaching out to make scenes and try to humiliate people. Recently this happened at a local ice cream shop where some people barged their way into the store and refused to obey the sign to wear masks. The workers are young kids trying to make some money during vacation. These people went "at" them with the full force of the political agenda against wearing masks. It's just awful that politics has played a role in downplaying the seriousness of COVID-19. They say stupid things like, "I'm not going to live in fear for the rest of my life." Being polite is the only way to go is by being respectful as @astaingegerdm said. "respectful to wear a mask all the time out so one does not make others sick." Trying to argue with them just urges them on. I love a good debate but will not debate these fools. They are just blinded to the truth.

If I were out and someone was not wearing a mask I would turn my back and wait for them to pass or leave a store.

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Very irritating, and these people whatever the agenda make me beg the question, 'just who do they think they are to get in my face or anyone's face and just out of the blue try to jam their political agenda on us?' Businesses can make basically any rule they want as long as it doesn't create a safety hazard or is illegal in and of itself. They can require masks, gloves, whatever, as a condition of entry, and if people won't comply then the next step would be to ask them to leave. When they don't leave, then the business should call the police and have them charged with criminal trespass. Most states have specific laws dealing with different kinds of trespass. In PA, simple trespass is a summary offense with a maximum jail sentence of 90 days. Usually people are just served a citation. If they violate a clearly posted no-trespassing sign, or remain after they've been told to leave it becomes defiant trespass aka criminal trespass and that is a misdemeanor with a one year sentence in the state pen (so posting no-trespassing signs becomes extra important in PA). Anyhow, that is one way to deal with it. If I went into a store an an argument like that was escalating, I'd just take anyone I brought with me and leave immediately. Not my battle, and I'm not going to end up getting punched, kicked, hit with thrown objects, or just having to deal with it.
I'm not a lawyer or official and this is not legal advice. Just my 2 cents. 🙂

Liked by lioness

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@zeiracorp

Very irritating, and these people whatever the agenda make me beg the question, 'just who do they think they are to get in my face or anyone's face and just out of the blue try to jam their political agenda on us?' Businesses can make basically any rule they want as long as it doesn't create a safety hazard or is illegal in and of itself. They can require masks, gloves, whatever, as a condition of entry, and if people won't comply then the next step would be to ask them to leave. When they don't leave, then the business should call the police and have them charged with criminal trespass. Most states have specific laws dealing with different kinds of trespass. In PA, simple trespass is a summary offense with a maximum jail sentence of 90 days. Usually people are just served a citation. If they violate a clearly posted no-trespassing sign, or remain after they've been told to leave it becomes defiant trespass aka criminal trespass and that is a misdemeanor with a one year sentence in the state pen (so posting no-trespassing signs becomes extra important in PA). Anyhow, that is one way to deal with it. If I went into a store an an argument like that was escalating, I'd just take anyone I brought with me and leave immediately. Not my battle, and I'm not going to end up getting punched, kicked, hit with thrown objects, or just having to deal with it.
I'm not a lawyer or official and this is not legal advice. Just my 2 cents. 🙂

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@zeiracorp Yes, businesses can ask people who will not comply with mask requirements to leave, and in most places it is probably a misdemeanor not to do so. But here in the Twin Cities, our police are stretched beyond the limit by other events of the day, and have made it clear they cannot respond to such calls. In other parts of the country, law enforcement has been known to openly mock and/or defy masking requirements (the political thing again, I suppose.)

Finally, business owners are fearful of violence with so many people passionate about the matter, and nerves frayed by the pandemic and current events, and will not enforce or ask their employees to do it. I just leave businesses where people are not masked – even my favorite local hardware store, where everyone except the owners are masked and practicing safe distancing.
Sue

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@sueinmn

@zeiracorp Yes, businesses can ask people who will not comply with mask requirements to leave, and in most places it is probably a misdemeanor not to do so. But here in the Twin Cities, our police are stretched beyond the limit by other events of the day, and have made it clear they cannot respond to such calls. In other parts of the country, law enforcement has been known to openly mock and/or defy masking requirements (the political thing again, I suppose.)

Finally, business owners are fearful of violence with so many people passionate about the matter, and nerves frayed by the pandemic and current events, and will not enforce or ask their employees to do it. I just leave businesses where people are not masked – even my favorite local hardware store, where everyone except the owners are masked and practicing safe distancing.
Sue

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@sueinmn @zeiracorp. There's a video going around about this woman who went to Trafer Joe's, at first she had a mask on so she was let in. Then she took off her mask, when the staff told her

Liked by Z, fiesty76

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@fiesty76

@zeiracorp, Z, I do applaud you for keeping your cool when confronted by the taunter! Thank you for your post and also for being a certified fire arm instructor. I grew up and now live in a state where hunting and ranching is prevalent so understand why gun ownership is high.

I am grateful for those who carry to protect others and themselves and are licensed do so for the safety of us all. My neighbor tried unsuccessfully for years to get me to buy a gun and take classes on how to use it. Because I've never been around guns, I've always said that I might do more harm than good if I had one. I am a firm believer that every sane individual has every right to defend against harm.

Whether with words or weapons, those who are physically aggressive due to mental illness and those who are defiant for the sake of causing upheaval and danger for its own sake are the people who most frighten me.

I couldn't agree with you more that it is the idiots out there who put us all in danger. Whether confronting others verbally to start a skirmish, refusing to wear masks or distance, or threatening others with a firearm or other weapon, these are the people that put all of us at risk.

When a "sold" sign went up on a house at the corner of our block, we were delighted when a young policeman and his sweet family moved in. Most of us are elderly and many are singles so having his police car parked in his drive at night is very reassuring. I live in a quiet neighborhood but recently neighbors are reporting instances on our facebook page of being accosted and even chased while on walks. I'm sticking with my very early morning neighborhood walks but staying closer to home than when I began the walks last January.

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Thanks. By the way, I'm not police. I tried that gig and it was not for me (long story). Most of my life I've worked one kind or another of "security" (there is a huge diversity of job descriptions in that field from easy and boring to complex, demanding, and ridiculously dangerous; I've done all – I'll take boring, high-pay, and easy any day, 🙂 ). I did learn a lot of things in the police training (and various security training) that have been helpful, not the least of which is the defensive driving. I think everyone should take a course like that. Massively informative as to what your car and you can do to avoid crashes. Has saved my life and other's more than once using what I learned.

Speaking of idiots, I think the highway is the most dangerous place we all have to be. People drive like they are insane. There are TONS of people killed in traffic accidents. People speed by 40 or more mph at all times.
When I was right out of high school I fell asleep at the wheel from working night shift and put my car into a concrete bridge abutment. I was not going fast. If I had been, I would not be here. I had a concussion, smashed my face, knocked about half of my teeth out, shattered my jaw, and was unable to work for months. Driving is, by far, the most deadly thing we do.

Regarding the police – Just because someone has a badge and a title does not mean they deserve your trust. People think because they are innocent or have nothing to hide they have nothing to fear from the police – they are dead wrong. I'm not diminishing the service the police do, just be aware, if they are stopping you or questioning you they are NOT your friends. They are looking for a reason to arrest you and charge you with a crime. I always tell people not to answer a lot of questions if the police stop them and start grilling them, and not to consent to warrantless searches (if they search you by force after you politely refuse, you have legal recourse; note there are certain circumstances where they CAN search you against your consent and without a warrant). Do not invite them into your house. If they are questioning you, tell them you do not want to answer any questions without the benefit of an attorney. That should end any questioning right there on the spot. Be polite, obey legal commands, and your recourse if you are treated illegally is in the courts (you can also complain to their bosses- but that may or may not get you anywhere).
Everyone should listen to this lecture:

The man talks so fast it's irritating, but it's worth putting up with it for the information contained in his lecture. Paper here:
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1998119
Also, you should be aware that, unfortunately, a lot of people get into police work who are very bad actors themselves. More than one might think. I've met some of them.

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@sueinmn @zeiracorp ooops, didn't finish..what happened? Anyway when the staff told her to put her mask back on, she just went nuts and screamed that her doctor told her due to medical reasons, she cannot wear a mask, and it's against federal law to force her. She was so loud and obnoxious, there's nothing wrong with her lungs. My friend who owns a nail salon required her customer to have temperature taken and wash hands before going inside. Thus woman absolutely refused, so my friend denied her service. She went to Yelp and gave the salon a very nasty rating saying she was denied because of her race. This pandamic seems to bring out the worst in some people. When I see people without masks even while I am walking, I would walk farther away, no need to tempt fate.

Liked by lioness, Z, fiesty76

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@mayofeb2020

@sueinmn @zeiracorp ooops, didn't finish..what happened? Anyway when the staff told her to put her mask back on, she just went nuts and screamed that her doctor told her due to medical reasons, she cannot wear a mask, and it's against federal law to force her. She was so loud and obnoxious, there's nothing wrong with her lungs. My friend who owns a nail salon required her customer to have temperature taken and wash hands before going inside. Thus woman absolutely refused, so my friend denied her service. She went to Yelp and gave the salon a very nasty rating saying she was denied because of her race. This pandamic seems to bring out the worst in some people. When I see people without masks even while I am walking, I would walk farther away, no need to tempt fate.

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"This pandamic seems to bring out the worst in some people."
That's sure true! We haven't seen all of it yet unfortunately. There are resurgences in places and places going back into stay-at-home. People are going to be even more testy if things get rolled-back.

Look at the bright side- what if this had been ebola or something similar?

This story (see the dates – it's been ongoing) is of interest: (comes from CBC)
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/chinese-researcher-escorted-from-infectious-disease-lab-amid-rcmp-investigation-1.5211567
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/ebola-henipah-china-1.5232674
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/canadian-scientist-sent-deadly-viruses-to-wuhan-lab-months-before-rcmp-asked-to-investigate-1.5609582
I'm not suggesting anything conspiratorial. Those articles are mainstream news and food for thought. Not trying to scare anyone. Some of the details in that are scary though.

I consider the current pandemic countermeasures as something we should also observe to see how people react to being told to take those measures. What I see is not encouraging. If this bug was a worse bug (and I'm not diminishing COVID-19's risks) we would be in very serious trouble.

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@sueinmn

@zeiracorp Yes, businesses can ask people who will not comply with mask requirements to leave, and in most places it is probably a misdemeanor not to do so. But here in the Twin Cities, our police are stretched beyond the limit by other events of the day, and have made it clear they cannot respond to such calls. In other parts of the country, law enforcement has been known to openly mock and/or defy masking requirements (the political thing again, I suppose.)

Finally, business owners are fearful of violence with so many people passionate about the matter, and nerves frayed by the pandemic and current events, and will not enforce or ask their employees to do it. I just leave businesses where people are not masked – even my favorite local hardware store, where everyone except the owners are masked and practicing safe distancing.
Sue

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They should not push the issue and try to enforce it. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/05/04/family-dollar-security-guard-killed-after-telling-shopper-wear-mask/3081674001/
Brings me back to my own strategy – if [stuff] starts, I'm leaving, immediately. A lot of the stores around where I live don't try to enforce it. There is a mix of people wearing them and people not.
There isn't much more one can do at this point. I would discourage businesses from trying to enforce it. I would be very polite. I would not take a security job where I had to try to enforce masks on the public. Outside my risk envelope.

Liked by fiesty76

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@astaingegerdm

@robbie1956 – I agree with you. The masks offer better protection than nothing , much better. Unless you are face to face for a while with someone with the virus actively coughing. I feel safer, in control. I wear eyeglasses too- makes me remember not to touch my eyes.

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Yes…good point.. glasses need wiping, washing…I wear them…but I have to pocket them when I put the mask on…I tend to fog up the lenses..but glad you mentioned it.

Liked by fiesty76

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@astaingegerdm

@robbie1956 – I agree with you. The masks offer better protection than nothing , much better. Unless you are face to face for a while with someone with the virus actively coughing. I feel safer, in control. I wear eyeglasses too- makes me remember not to touch my eyes.

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@astaingegerdm Ingred I wear glasses but if I didnt I would wear sunglasses to protect my eyes . Your tears can become infected so I think it is important to wear eye wear also

Liked by fiesty76

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@mayofeb2020

@sueinmn @zeiracorp. There's a video going around about this woman who went to Trafer Joe's, at first she had a mask on so she was let in. Then she took off her mask, when the staff told her

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@zeiracorp @sueinmn @mayofeb2020 Here in Ca. also a business just closed down they where tired of getting disrespected ,harassaed by these people who are just stupid so they closed there business in N. Hollywood I don't know if this was the same place as the Trader Jo's place or not . Business owners need to be more vigilant with what our Gov has said .

Liked by Z, fiesty76, robbie1956

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It’s a shame, we all can’t be together on this one…because this one is the one.

Liked by lioness, fiesty76

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@zeiracorp

Very irritating, and these people whatever the agenda make me beg the question, 'just who do they think they are to get in my face or anyone's face and just out of the blue try to jam their political agenda on us?' Businesses can make basically any rule they want as long as it doesn't create a safety hazard or is illegal in and of itself. They can require masks, gloves, whatever, as a condition of entry, and if people won't comply then the next step would be to ask them to leave. When they don't leave, then the business should call the police and have them charged with criminal trespass. Most states have specific laws dealing with different kinds of trespass. In PA, simple trespass is a summary offense with a maximum jail sentence of 90 days. Usually people are just served a citation. If they violate a clearly posted no-trespassing sign, or remain after they've been told to leave it becomes defiant trespass aka criminal trespass and that is a misdemeanor with a one year sentence in the state pen (so posting no-trespassing signs becomes extra important in PA). Anyhow, that is one way to deal with it. If I went into a store an an argument like that was escalating, I'd just take anyone I brought with me and leave immediately. Not my battle, and I'm not going to end up getting punched, kicked, hit with thrown objects, or just having to deal with it.
I'm not a lawyer or official and this is not legal advice. Just my 2 cents. 🙂

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@zeiarcropZ I remember the drives on the Pa.turnpike crazy drivers for sure So many didn't follow the speed limits . Of course they aren't any better out here .

Liked by Z

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