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Other causes of failed PEth test for alcohol abuse?

Posted by gjones1956 @gjones1956, Nov 14, 2017

My daughter undergoes periodic peth testing for alchohol abuse. She fails regularly, although swears she drinks NOTHING. We have reason to believe she is telling the truth. Assuming she is indeed not drinking, is there a physical condition or ailment that might produce positive peth tests? She is 29, has enlarged lymph nodes, some kind of mysterious condition that gives her severe hives, etc. We are wondering if some type of autoinflammation or autoimmune condition might explain elevated levels. Our daughter is FINALLY discussing this with her regular doctor but if it is some unusual condition a specialist will be needed. The reason the peth test is required is due to a nasty custody dispute with lots of allegations of misconduct. I just want to know if there is ANYTHING other than alchohol consumption that can lead to positive test results. Any thoughts or knowledge of cases? Thanks for reading.

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hypes | @hypes | Mar 29, 2023

I failed a PEth test (378ng/100ml) when I had not consumed alcohol for 12 days. And before then, I had only consumed 18 standard drinks (spread out) in the preceding 5 weeks. I have a theory that the ethanol in my e-cigarettes may be responsible for the high reading. Does anyone have any information about this? Or, any info at all on how the reading could have been so high, when my alcohol consumption should have been well within the acceptable limits? I am going to lose time with my sons, and thousands of dollars because of this. I would appreciate any help, or information anyone could provide. Thank you.

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1 reply
hypes | @hypes | Mar 30, 2023
In reply to @hypes "I failed a PEth test (378ng/100ml) when I had not consumed alcohol for 12 days. And..." + (show)
@hypes

I failed a PEth test (378ng/100ml) when I had not consumed alcohol for 12 days. And before then, I had only consumed 18 standard drinks (spread out) in the preceding 5 weeks. I have a theory that the ethanol in my e-cigarettes may be responsible for the high reading. Does anyone have any information about this? Or, any info at all on how the reading could have been so high, when my alcohol consumption should have been well within the acceptable limits? I am going to lose time with my sons, and thousands of dollars because of this. I would appreciate any help, or information anyone could provide. Thank you.

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Edit: It was a blood spot test.

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1 reply
John | @johnnoregon | Mar 30, 2023

I am sober about 5 years. I tested weekly for alcohol and drugs for a couple of years waiting on a liver transplant. My Peths never showed positive. But EtG tests, totally different. This test showed positive on me 2x and was kicked off the list. Ever the NIH says it's a proven false positive machine. I fought it but the hospital was not hearing it. After getting one person supporting me in the clinic, I stopped using all products with any form of alcohol - lotions, shampoos, food condiments - anything that contained any form of alcohol. Mustard, ketchup, anything with vinegar or was fermented. No more positives. I was put back on the list and got a transplant. Look at the list of products that contain alcohol or fermented products. It's everywhere. And they knowingly administer a known false positive test.

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John | @johnnoregon | Mar 30, 2023

Based on my 2 years of Peths and EgTs, and if I was not going sober and continue to drink, I would be off all booze for at least 30 days, if not 45-60 days before getting tested. The unpredictability of the test result even though you know the truth isn't worth the anxiety or anger. If you can't not drink long enough to pass the test, well, that's another thing.
I feel everyone's angst.

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toolsd | @toolsd | Apr 1, 2023

Peth is not known for incidental exposure false positives. I believe they can happen, but not nearly like ETG.

By all accounts you should be able to drink a beer a week and NEVER pop a positive peth. However, although it’s a horrible test for abstinence, it’s used for that. Now, a true alcoholic can’t drink a beer a week, by definition. However, a non alcoholic forced into an abstinence program could. What seems to be happening is folks pop a positive and cop to violating abstinence thinking they’ve been caught when in fact they probably had a false positive. Then the morons who believe in this test get all giddy thinking it caught them too… and so the myth of the amazing peth test is born. Unreal…

A false positive blood spot test is easy to spot in a litigation package.

The best you can do is take three, on the same day, different places. Film each event, and insist on the tech following ALL PROTOCOL. Including sitting around a few hours for it to dry before packaging.

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hypes | @hypes | Apr 3, 2023
In reply to @hypes "Edit: It was a blood spot test." + (show)
@hypes

Edit: It was a blood spot test.

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Another update on my situation. To be clear, the reading of 378ng/100ml put my reading at almost twice excessive consumption - approximately 8 (Australian) standard drinks every day for the last month. That's approximately 240 standard drinks in the month before the PEth test, when I had actually consumed a total of 18 standard drinks in the 5 weeks running up to the test, with zero alcohol consumed for 12 days before the day.

When I received the results, I was shocked so I arranged a CDT test and got it done that day (24 March), which was 8 days after the PEth test. I had another CDT test 6 days later (30 March). I received the results of the tests CDT tests today. Both came in at 0.3%, which is consistent with the amount of alcohol I have actually consumed. I've sent it to the lawyer$. We'll see what happens...

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toolsd | @toolsd | Apr 3, 2023

Excellent. You may want to get the litigation package. That’s an ordeal for some reason.

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agillcrist | @agillcrist | May 7, 2023
In reply to @toolsd "HI folks! A little late to this party, my false positive came a year ago may...." + (show)
@toolsd

HI folks!

A little late to this party, my false positive came a year ago may. Like so many here, backed up with numerous time appropriate follow on PeTH and etg hair tests that are all negative. I have no idea even of a source of incidental exposure.

I was in an abstinence program, another story fraught with fraud waste and abuse, so was offered relapse treatment, 100 days inpatient, but refused because I did not relapse, and was fired from a major airline. Awaiting arbitration, as that's the only due process allowed a unionized employee. As for a union helping, well, think again. They are not and recommended I go to the relapse treatment. And even have some pilots on a contract that removes their right to grieve! So they get fired with NO recourse.

Bad PeTH test was collected by anylab in Atlanta, processed by USDTL. A follow on test from them was negative, as was a follow on processed on whole blood from lab Corp I think.

As for post collection synthesis, absolutely possible. The manufacturer of the blood spot cards specifically states waiting a minimum of two hours before the specimen is sealed in a plastic bag. If your blood ferments on that card, and there's PLD in that blood spot, then PeTH is gonna be formed. It's not called a DRIED blood spot for nothing.

I have a lawyer and 4 forensic toxicologists working on the matter, what better way to spend my 401k....

There are many other pilots in my position, but none have grieved it that I know of.

At the end of my arbitration I'm willing to share any and all of the forensic reports I collect. Surely they can help someone.

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I would love it if you had the time to share what you have. Fellow airline pilot dealing with this also. Your union sounds like mine. Thank you!

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agillcrist | @agillcrist | May 7, 2023
In reply to @toolsd "1. You’re right, info is conflicting. By some standards a 121 is a low positive. Peth..." + (show)
@toolsd

1. You’re right, info is conflicting. By some standards a 121 is a low positive. Peth is absolutely worthless in the context of your overall drinking habits by itself. Period. You WONT find a learned opinion that it is.

2. Trusty old Lab Corps recently produced a positive test like yours and it wasn’t the guy’s blood as shown with DNA testing... so there’s that.

3. Greg Skipper talks a lot about individual PLD variance that affects these results. Ted Shultz talks a lot about individual hematocrit variance that also affects results. I’m certain your PLD levels and hematocrit weren’t recorded at the time of your test...

4. I’ll private message you so you can get in touch with me if you wish. I can provide you with expert opinions concerning PETH testing that might sway the GAL to the inefficacy of this sham test.

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If you have time, could you share your expert opinions concerning PETH testing? Thank you!

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