What would you do in my situation? Should I be worried?

Posted by guyrien @guyrien, Feb 6 7:59am

I'm 6 foot (see weight details below) currently I'm 53.

I've been on a statin for the last 25 years and it keeps my cholesterol under check nicely.

I exercise regularly (i.e. I walk 100+ miles a month), I eat good food but do over-eat. I live in California where the summer fruits are so good I can't help but eat alot of them!

As part of turning 50, I did the usual battery of tests including doing a heart stress test that was fine. But I asked to do a Calcium Heart Scan and the results aren't awful, but they are a bit disturbing given my age and that I'm in the 88 percentile! Cardiologist and I are meeting soon but he's a hands off kind of person who needs to be prodded a bit (i.e. I had to prod him to do the Calcium Heart Scan).

FINDINGS: Agatston Coronary Calcium Score:
LMA: 0
LAD: 144
LCX: 8
RCA: 0
Total: 152
Percentile: 88%

The coronary arteries arise from the expected sinuses of Valsalva. Moderate coronary artery calcification. The coronary artery calcium score defined by Agatston amounts to 152. The estimated probability of a non-zero calcium score for a white Male of age 53 is 50%. The Agatston score is 152, which places the patient at the 88th percentile adjusted for age, gender, and race/ethnicity based on the MESA trial cohort. CARDIOVASCULAR FINDINGS: Vessels: Aorta and pulmonary artery are not significantly dilated. Heart and Pericardium: Normal. Extra-coronary Calcification: None

My high-school weight was 170
Ages 20-35 I kept my weight under 200 pounds.
Ages 35-45 I shot up to 240 pounds.
Ages 45-53 (current age) I'm back around 190.

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@guyrien

I've been on a statin for 27 years (currently early 50s). For the first 15 years I took it more often than not, but now I take it religiously every day.

My cardiologist prescribed me Crestor and my HDL is above 50 my LDL below 100 now.

I did a calcium heart scan and it came back with;
"Agatston Coronary Calcium Score:
LMA: 0
LAD: 144
LCX: 8
RCA: 0
Total: 152
Percentile: 88%

CARDIOVASCULAR FINDINGS:
Vessels: Aorta and pulmonary artery are not significantly dilated.
Heart and Pericardium: Normal.
Extra-coronary Calcification: None."

So the percentile is high but the finding are nothing too serious.

He says to just on keep on keeping on. No changes except baby asprin. He even said I could keep on eating red meat, cheese etc as the 153 reading is due to the last 10 years and the next 10 years is going to be better due to being on a stronger statin.

2nd opinion or not?

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Cardinal rule: a second opinion, like time spent on research, is seldom wasted. If nothing else, you'll have a confirmation, and if the two are even somewhat disparate, you can then decide which way to look at it on your own behalf.

The LAD score isn't great, but nor is it cause for panic. It's just a photo, a snapshot, of what extent of calcification is extant.

A statin, aside from its anti-lipid capability, is also a mild anti-inflammatory. You may have some systemic inflammation, maybe just in and around the LAD. Deposition of plaque is exacerbated by inflammation, notably of the endothelial linings of arteries. So, maybe it wouldn't hurt to ask your 'second opinion' what he/she thinks of a CRP test to find out if you are also at the 75%ile or higher in terms of inflammation? Something to think about, or certainly to run past your cardiologist.

Finally, despite what may be your scrupulously excellent diet and fitness regimen, your genetics may predispose you to producing a kind of LDL, size and stickiness, that adheres particularly well to your LAD (for some reason well beyond me), but not to other blood vessels. BTW, while I'm thinking about this, it wouldn't hurt to learn what your carotid arteries look like if they were not part of this scan. A Doppler ultrasound will show their current extent of deposition.

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Given circumstances many target LDL of closer to 50 (vs 100). You didn't mention triglycerides? Total cholesterol of around 100 also a reasonable target. Vascepa?

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@gloaming

You should probably only worry if your score continues to rise with each periodic evaluation of the extent of deposition in your LAD. It can be slowed with some treatment, maybe including backing off on the fruit. Fruit has a lot of fructose, and it's a demanding conversion for the liver to change it to glucose, which spikes insulin levels. High serum sugar levels cause damage to the endothelial lining of arteries due to inflammation, and inflamed tissues are a better surface for cholesterol to adhere to.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8267750/
Good job keeping a lid on your weight gain. Still, though, if you're doing a better job at keeping calories in check, but still eating the wrong types of calories, won't you still get some unwanted events in your body?

It could be unrelated to your diet, but may be related to some other condition/pursuit/pathogen/disorder in you, and you still have a significant amount of inflammation. Your doctor can order tests, such as a CRP, to see if your titers are high, outside of range. CRP is 'C-reactive protein', a biomarker for inflammation. There are others, but CRP is easy and a good start.

Finally, your number, any number, would make the bearer sit up and take notice. Some have scores three, four, six times as high as yours, and they're still kickin'. The score doesn't signify a trend, or directionality...it only shows what was in the picture when the image was taken. Yours is rather low, in my very non-expert opinion. Again, discuss this with a physician, maybe a cardiologist.

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you said
"It can be slowed with some treatment, maybe including backing off on the fruit. Fruit has a lot of fructose, and it's a demanding conversion for the liver to change it to glucose, which spikes insulin levels. High serum sugar levels cause damage to the endothelial lining of arteries due to inflammation, and inflamed tissues are a better surface for cholesterol to adhere to.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8267750/"
The article you reference is based on fructose sugar from soft drinks.
and I quote "The alarming increase in metabolic syndrome and comorbidities can only be attenuated if the consumption of fructose, mainly in soft beverages, is significantly reduced worldwide"
Fructose from whole fruit it metabolized very differently that fructose sugar used in soft drinks and does not represent the threat you imply that whole fruit fructose is = to fructose added to soft drinks.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6247175/
Food sources of fructose-containing sugars and glycaemic control: systematic review and meta-analysis of controlled intervention studies
"Energy control and food source appear to mediate the effect of fructose-containing sugars on glycaemic control. Although most food sources of these sugars (especially fruit) do not have a harmful effect in energy matched substitutions with other macronutrients, several food sources of fructose-containing sugars (especially sugars-sweetened beverages) adding excess energy to diets have harmful effects. However, certainty in these estimates is low, and more high quality randomised controlled trials are needed."

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@harveywj

you said
"It can be slowed with some treatment, maybe including backing off on the fruit. Fruit has a lot of fructose, and it's a demanding conversion for the liver to change it to glucose, which spikes insulin levels. High serum sugar levels cause damage to the endothelial lining of arteries due to inflammation, and inflamed tissues are a better surface for cholesterol to adhere to.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8267750/"
The article you reference is based on fructose sugar from soft drinks.
and I quote "The alarming increase in metabolic syndrome and comorbidities can only be attenuated if the consumption of fructose, mainly in soft beverages, is significantly reduced worldwide"
Fructose from whole fruit it metabolized very differently that fructose sugar used in soft drinks and does not represent the threat you imply that whole fruit fructose is = to fructose added to soft drinks.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6247175/
Food sources of fructose-containing sugars and glycaemic control: systematic review and meta-analysis of controlled intervention studies
"Energy control and food source appear to mediate the effect of fructose-containing sugars on glycaemic control. Although most food sources of these sugars (especially fruit) do not have a harmful effect in energy matched substitutions with other macronutrients, several food sources of fructose-containing sugars (especially sugars-sweetened beverages) adding excess energy to diets have harmful effects. However, certainty in these estimates is low, and more high quality randomised controlled trials are needed."

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"...However, certainty in these estimates is low, and more high quality randomised controlled trials are needed."






Without knowing more about the diversity and total calorific intake of the person to whom I posted my reply, it might make sense for that person to cut back on fruit consumption, which is what I said.

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@gloaming

"...However, certainty in these estimates is low, and more high quality randomised controlled trials are needed."






Without knowing more about the diversity and total calorific intake of the person to whom I posted my reply, it might make sense for that person to cut back on fruit consumption, which is what I said.

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If you want to put up youtube stuff, here as an 80 minute lecture By Dr. Robert Lustig MD University of California Professor of Pediatrics that is pure science.

BTW I watched a couple of your links and amazingly a couple of them said the fructose from whole fruits generally is good thing esp because the rise in sugar is much slower due to slower metabolism.


Sugar the bitter truth. It gives the real science of fructose metabolism and how the liver stores excessive sugar as fat.

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Get an “LP little a” blood draw/test and find out if you have coronary artery disease CAD. If you do and with your calcium test, go to the cardiologist and find out if you have any arteries blocked. That’s really the main concern you didn’t say what your cow what your cholesterol was. CAD runs in my family so I was able to get the test easily and indeed I do have it unfortunately it’s hereditary. So fortunately my whole life I’ve been really concerned about eating a low-fat diet and staying healthy. I have three clear arteries and one artery that’s 1/3 blocked. I’m 67 years old. I outlived my other relatives so I’m doing pretty good and my arteries are in great shape compared to my dad who had a heart attack at 58 and swam three times a week and had three arteries completely blocked and had to be on statins the rest of his life. He died a normal life span of 87 years old. I found it was really easy to lower my cholesterol by just putting more fish in my diet when I went off the fish my cholesterol shot back up. Because of the CAD I also get LEVEQIO injections twice a year which are going to help Avoid plaque buildup. I wouldn’t worry so much about numbers I would worry about what condition your arteries are in and your heart. They seem to be in good condition but I didn’t see what your arteries look like. Get that checked get a cardio doctor. Good luck.

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@harveywj


If you want to put up youtube stuff, here as an 80 minute lecture By Dr. Robert Lustig MD University of California Professor of Pediatrics that is pure science.

BTW I watched a couple of your links and amazingly a couple of them said the fructose from whole fruits generally is good thing esp because the rise in sugar is much slower due to slower metabolism.


Sugar the bitter truth. It gives the real science of fructose metabolism and how the liver stores excessive sugar as fat.

Jump to this post

'...BTW I watched a couple of your links and amazingly a couple of them said the fructose from whole fruits generally is good thing esp because the rise in sugar is much slower due to slower metabolism....'

Exactly. It's better. It's still sugar...no? Even more, it's fructose, the most problematic of all sugars. And if a person is consuming a fair amount of fresh fruit and berries...... (and here I stop talking and raise my eyebrow while continuing to watch you., knowing that you'll realize that what I posted way back there was perfectly sensible and worthy of consideration, which is all I ever suggested).

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@loriesco

Get an “LP little a” blood draw/test and find out if you have coronary artery disease CAD. If you do and with your calcium test, go to the cardiologist and find out if you have any arteries blocked. That’s really the main concern you didn’t say what your cow what your cholesterol was. CAD runs in my family so I was able to get the test easily and indeed I do have it unfortunately it’s hereditary. So fortunately my whole life I’ve been really concerned about eating a low-fat diet and staying healthy. I have three clear arteries and one artery that’s 1/3 blocked. I’m 67 years old. I outlived my other relatives so I’m doing pretty good and my arteries are in great shape compared to my dad who had a heart attack at 58 and swam three times a week and had three arteries completely blocked and had to be on statins the rest of his life. He died a normal life span of 87 years old. I found it was really easy to lower my cholesterol by just putting more fish in my diet when I went off the fish my cholesterol shot back up. Because of the CAD I also get LEVEQIO injections twice a year which are going to help Avoid plaque buildup. I wouldn’t worry so much about numbers I would worry about what condition your arteries are in and your heart. They seem to be in good condition but I didn’t see what your arteries look like. Get that checked get a cardio doctor. Good luck.

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Based on your history, almost all docs would recommend you be on a statin - are you not?

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@mayoconnectuser1

Based on your history, almost all docs would recommend you be on a statin - are you not?

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Nope, not on statin. I was prescribed one but had a bad reaction in 3 weeks. (muscle pain weakness). The Vescepa (saw you mentioned it) was worthless in my case. Couldn't get my cholesterol to budge from 240!
What DID work was the real deal - upping my intake of fish! Only takes 2-3 months and my very stubborn cholesterol will drop 40 points. I wrote another lengthy post today about my cholesterol with numbers. My dad was on statins for two decades. Although it controlled his cholesterol, it did not stop the plaque build up! He had 3 major bypass surgeries at 58, 72 and 80. Angioplasties and stints in between. Then had TIA's and finally a major stroke! But his cholesterol was 169! Its not your cholesterol but the ratios of LDL to HDL and other indicators.
I noticed a convo about fructose above. I have IBS and I can't digest fructose in fruits because of the oligosaccharides, so I went back to a regular ole white sugar after abstaining for 45 years.
I have familial CAD and that plays a part in my body depositing plague even when denied fats. It still finds a way to make them. That is what science teaches us. (I had nutritional chemistry in college) If you make the mistake of giving your body components of cholesterol, it will make up the plaque much easier than if you just ate the cholesterol outright. Our body has a unique "signature" for cholesterol. So it must break down that egg you ate -- before reconstituting it to your body's unique cholesterol. People don't understand digestive nutritional chemistry and that it's not the 'thing" you eat - it's how the body metabolizes it and which part of the body, at what point in the digestive process, it gets digested. We really must understand how to understand the research articles as well.

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@loriesco

Nope, not on statin. I was prescribed one but had a bad reaction in 3 weeks. (muscle pain weakness). The Vescepa (saw you mentioned it) was worthless in my case. Couldn't get my cholesterol to budge from 240!
What DID work was the real deal - upping my intake of fish! Only takes 2-3 months and my very stubborn cholesterol will drop 40 points. I wrote another lengthy post today about my cholesterol with numbers. My dad was on statins for two decades. Although it controlled his cholesterol, it did not stop the plaque build up! He had 3 major bypass surgeries at 58, 72 and 80. Angioplasties and stints in between. Then had TIA's and finally a major stroke! But his cholesterol was 169! Its not your cholesterol but the ratios of LDL to HDL and other indicators.
I noticed a convo about fructose above. I have IBS and I can't digest fructose in fruits because of the oligosaccharides, so I went back to a regular ole white sugar after abstaining for 45 years.
I have familial CAD and that plays a part in my body depositing plague even when denied fats. It still finds a way to make them. That is what science teaches us. (I had nutritional chemistry in college) If you make the mistake of giving your body components of cholesterol, it will make up the plaque much easier than if you just ate the cholesterol outright. Our body has a unique "signature" for cholesterol. So it must break down that egg you ate -- before reconstituting it to your body's unique cholesterol. People don't understand digestive nutritional chemistry and that it's not the 'thing" you eat - it's how the body metabolizes it and which part of the body, at what point in the digestive process, it gets digested. We really must understand how to understand the research articles as well.

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I suspect most of your father's plaque build up from from earlier in life - and, the statins probably did their job by reducing plaque, and by calcifying already present plaque.

While I know you feel certain about ratios, I would urge you to get your cholesterol under control with injectables.

And to Vascepa - jury still out on full effects, but its core purpose is usually to reduce LDL.

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