Metabolic therapy for cancer

Posted by birdman518 @birdman518, Jun 20, 2023

I have several posts here about my newly-diagnosed metastatic melanoma, but I wanted this to be a new thread.
I was looking for alternative therapies for cancer, and I was afraid that most of them would seem, well, a little kooky (sorry, but that's what I thought).
I found one, however, that seems to be both outside the mainstream standard-of-care, but yet very well represented in the scientific literature, including at least one Nobel Prize (Warburg), and that is the metabolic theory of cancer. It seems as though its primary promoter is Dr Thomas Seyfried of Boston College. He is a professor of biology, genetics, and biochemistry at Boston College.
He has many books, articles, and videos online, so it is easy to learn about this theory.
I cannot go into it in detail, but its premise is that cancer is a metabolic disease, and not a genetic one. Please take the time to look at the details before shooting me. 🙂

My only question here is whether anyone else has looked into this, and what do you make of it? Did you ever ask your oncologist about it?

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Cancer Support Group.

@mddrm

@colleenyoung : Thanks for the response and absolutely, we are charlatan-wary, understanding that any treatment is ultimately palliative. We're not looking for a cure. But, I have to say that charlatantry can be found just as much within the medical-industrial complex as without. While never saying "This treatment will cure you," (for fear of lawsuits!) the pitch is placed in either glossy terms or alternately in subtle scare-tactic fashion, such as, "If you *don't* do the chemo you won't live as long," all the while downplaying the side effects, quality-of-life issues, and the possibility that the treatment itself could be the thing which kills you! It's like all those drug commercials with happy people in soft focus, while the narrator rattles off the fine print.

“Life is pain, highness. Anyone who says differently is selling something.” William Goldman, The Princess Bride

I believe your father chose wisely!

No, my wife is not a Mayo patient, and Virginia Oncology has no nearby locations to us. Traveling great distances for treatment is not an option, as I indicated. I also note that the "integrative medicine" there is meant to deal with side effects only while still practicing the standard slash, burn, and poison approach. This seems to me to be wholly different from the research being pursued by folks such as Dr. Seyfried.

And one needs to be careful as well with painting someone as a charlatan if the *only* reason for doing so is because they consider the possibility that the medical-industrial complex might just have it all wrong. No, I am not at all suggesting *you* are doing this! I'm just pointing out that it's oftentimes the outside-the-box thinkers who make the greatest discoveries.

So, all of that to say, yes, we deem the approach we are taking as palliative in nature, and because of my wife's character, discipline, and diet, she may very well be one of those statistical dots down in the far lower right of the survival curve. Or, she may not, but she's good with that.

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Excellent reply, you are so not alone in this thinking. There’s an oncologist william Li, if you haven’t heard of him.
There’s also a group on FB that are following this unique incorporative approach and support through cancer.
I can’t wait till Dr. Seyfried completes his protocol for this alternative approach in print. I do believe he’s working on it now.
Brilliant writing my friend, and i love the princess bride.

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I was diagnosed with stage 3 ovarian cancer approx 3 years ago. I had surgery to remove all tumors then a harsh series of chemo treaments. the chemo was was not affective on removeing cancer that could not be surgically removed. I have been living a healthy active life until about 2 months ago.things changed. I am involved in the lawsuit against johnson and johnson as the cancer was shown not to be genetic.I really do not want chemo but have read much about cancer as mitochondrial metabolic disease. Is the Mayo Clinic envolved in this research?

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@anniewoodyeti

I was diagnosed with stage 3 ovarian cancer approx 3 years ago. I had surgery to remove all tumors then a harsh series of chemo treaments. the chemo was was not affective on removeing cancer that could not be surgically removed. I have been living a healthy active life until about 2 months ago.things changed. I am involved in the lawsuit against johnson and johnson as the cancer was shown not to be genetic.I really do not want chemo but have read much about cancer as mitochondrial metabolic disease. Is the Mayo Clinic envolved in this research?

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Not surprised to hear the chemo wasn’t effective. From family member‘s expert oncologist, we were told that radiation for her would attack the cancer and her low dose chemo was there to ‘light up’ the cells to be destroyed with radiation. She also had a recurrence after only getting a toxic load of chemo only as her first treatment. Some docs very much in the dark about what to do.

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Carb Genius Phone App

I started a 25 gram carbohydrate diet about one year ago, and it is very challenging to keep carbs that low!

I recently discovered a fabulous app called Carb Genius by MyNetDiary to help me. The app is easy to use and it integrates with my Apple Watch data and other devices. I enrolled a premium account for added features.

Here is link to a YouTube video :


The nutrient analysis feature helps me identify nutrient deficiencies. I am able to add in supplements to be included in the analysis. In addition, the app also allows me to customize the dashboard to include glucose, ketones, weight, etc.

My BMI is 19 and my goal is to maintain my weight. The goals you set to lose, maintain, or gain weight are calculated for you and the app includes many tutorials.

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@eileenham

this is it. this guy has put his finger on it, syphoned it down to understandable language. it's the glucose and glutamine that kill you. the cancer thrives on both so take them out of the equation. 1) no sugar or carbs, ketosis. 2) break down the glutamine either with berberine, or remove the precursors cysteine and methionine, and voila, you win. I think there is a class action suit in all of this. doctors take an oath "first not to do harm" and yet they are doing it every day with radiation and chemo. they know how to cure you but they don't tell you how. they are literally killing hundreds of thousands of people. 4 months ago I was diagnosed with stage IIb cervical and sent to die. it took awhile to figure it out but now I am working with a Gerson practitioner and following Seyfried's protocol. I'll get back to you in 10 years. it takes discipline and a positive attitude but it's all right there in front of us.

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@eileenham

Interesting thank you for sharing. Why each of us has cancer, have how each of us are affected by our cancer and how we respond to treatment (whether FDA approved or not) is fascinating.

Personally I was diagnosed stage 4 appendix cancer in 2021, had a radical hysterectomy and debulking surgery, 6 months of Folfiri and Avastin then in mid 2022 HIPEC with cytoreductive surgery and a peritonectomy. I’ve been NED since then (surveillance scans and blood tests now 4 monthly) with almost no side effects from treatments (just need to watch my hydration and fibre intake due to a colon resection).

No way am I suing my doctor!! He’s been fabulous. He’s encouraged me to live holistically through, and then post, treatment as adjuvant therapies. Referred me to various holistic experts. I eat a Mediterranean diet, exercise well, sleep well, practice mindfulness, minimise stress, enjoy Pilates, yoga and aromatherapy etc etc.

I don’t do Botox and try to live clean. However, I drink minimal red wine as per the Mediterranean diet and I do worry that I should drink none at all as I did through treatment. Alcohol does have a level of toxicity.

Hopefully that lifestyle will help prolong my life before recurrence. My cancer is rare, cause unknown and cannot be cured.

Who knows what I will do when my cancer returns. It will depend on the research and possibly my level of desperation

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@janet23

Carb Genius Phone App

I started a 25 gram carbohydrate diet about one year ago, and it is very challenging to keep carbs that low!

I recently discovered a fabulous app called Carb Genius by MyNetDiary to help me. The app is easy to use and it integrates with my Apple Watch data and other devices. I enrolled a premium account for added features.

Here is link to a YouTube video :


The nutrient analysis feature helps me identify nutrient deficiencies. I am able to add in supplements to be included in the analysis. In addition, the app also allows me to customize the dashboard to include glucose, ketones, weight, etc.

My BMI is 19 and my goal is to maintain my weight. The goals you set to lose, maintain, or gain weight are calculated for you and the app includes many tutorials.

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Wow. That sounds very useful for all kinds of health goals.

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Dr. William W Li is a brilliant scientist and Harvard trained MD. He is the founder of the Angiogenesis Foundation (angio.org).

I follow the guidelines in his best selling book, “Eat to Beat Disease”, by eating cancer fighting organic foods.

Here is a link to one of his many YouTube interviews discussing food and cancer:

TED Talk over 10 years ago :


More recent interview :

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In my experience, Metabolic Therapy, RGCC Circulating Tumor Cell tests, Oncottace and Onconomics Plus, are not offered by traditional Oncology.

I have stage 1a lung cancer that was resected with clean margins and negative lymph nodes. My CTC count was high before surgery, dropped a little after surgery, and has increased in October with dangerous levels of cells which appear to be causing metastasis. My recent CT scan showed a new GGO in a different lobe of my lung.

The RGCC test is expensive. You can find a list of doctors on the RGCC website that offers the test. FDA refuses to approve the test, so the blood is sent to a lab in Europe. The Onconomics Plus test will test your tumor cells against natural substances,
and traditional chemo and radiation to give you options of therapies to try.

I am trying Natural Substances, Keto diet, and eating cancer fighting foods for now. I have a great Oncologist who supports my decision to try other therapies.

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@gisellef

Thank you so much for your very informative and well researched contribution. The excerpt that you included was very interesting and hopefully will yield some positive outcomes for those with cancer. For me, the question provoked by this theory is this: If we can accept the proposition that cancer may be the outcome of metabolic overload, can it be treated as you would a metabolic problem once cancer is present. In other words, can the strategies that you so very effectively employed to lower your risk be tweaked to address the conditions present in cases where the threshold of producing cancer has been reached.
That idea is less clear to me, especially as Dr Attia points to a host of other diseases and conditions, including diabetes, autoimmune and alzheimers are connected to metabolic processes gone awry. It seems as though by continually stressing our bodies we can reach a point of no return in terms of disease progression where pure metabolic-based correction strategies can make us healthier but will not be sufficient to deal with the additional disease, eg. diabetes, cancer or other....I suppose this gives us more to study in the future.
Thank you for stimulating more thought about these important ideas. All the best....

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@gisellef
I also am exploring press pulse protocoal as an adjunctive treatment and last week started undertaking my own GKI measures and am now exploring HOBT treatment. My issue is I am in Australia and to date can’t find a supportive Doctor to help with the HBOT schedule in conjunction with DON which as far as I have researched is not a viable here.
So my question is very much is there another way to reduce Glutamine levels for the pulse process,

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It is New Year’s Eve and I decided to jump back onto this thread, mostly for closure and to contribute another consideration to whoever comes across this thread and wants to look into what I write. This may be “too long; didn’t read” for some, but I think adding context will help. And it looks like I will need to post this in two or three parts, so bear with me.

My last post was July 6th which was one and two days after my wife had a PET scan and a brain MRI, respectively. Neither showed metastases to lungs, liver, bone, or brain—the usual pathways for her type of breast cancer, though the pleura and an intercostal rib area did light up in the PET scan, and possibly a supraclavicular lymph node. The few spots showing were relatively small at the time. Nonetheless, she took her last breath on the morning of December 3rd.

Between July 6th and December 3rd she really only had one bucket list item, to travel from our Virginia home to the Pacific Northwest where she grew up and where we met, for her to see family and friends. We had not been back there since 2011 and actually planned a trip for late September before the dreaded diagnosis. This was the choice of quality over quantity. The plan had been to ride the rails out and fly back, but as things progressed, this became untenable due to the increasing pain which required her to be lying down quite a bit. So, I rented an RV and she and our two sons headed west. It was a rough journey nonetheless and with hindsight I can identify a fairly steep drop-off in her condition about two days into it. By the time we reached our destination we had to go to the ER to switch from Tramadol to morphine. The morphine certainly helped her and she was in fact able to enjoy the reunions, though still with increasing pain.

Because—and as I indicated in my earlier posts—we were understanding her orientation to be palliative-based, our focus was on pain management, which included some of the usual drugs (ibuprofen, acetaminophen, aspirin, Lyrica, Tramadol, and morphine), along with having an indwelling pleural catheter (IPC) inserted. We considered some alternative (supposedly) cancer-curing treatments and she opted to try one which her brother-in-law promoted. I won’t say which one that was because, quite frankly, I don’t think it useful to repeat here. But, I will say that it may have been the reason for cessation of hot flashes she had been suffering from for years. Small comfort, of course, but at least that misery was no longer an issue! My wife started that alternative regimen in September and kept it up for about 6 weeks.

In August I was at a picnic gathering of a sports club I’m a member of, and when discussing my wife’s diagnosis with various friends, three of them independently suggested she try cannabinoids to relieve pain. It’s legal in Virginia so I ordered some gummies and one of the friends suggested she start out with only about a quarter of one, a relatively low dose. Nevertheless she didn’t like the way it made her head feel (she’d never—ever—been drunk or high, much less had a buzz). So, we shelved that.

Enter now onto the scene my son’s college friend’s father, Bill (not his real name), an attorney, whom I had gotten to know during my son’s college career. Bill had been diagnosed with a cancer (I don’t recall which type; perhaps a lymphoma) in late 2019. He started standard-of-care treatment and over the next four months his condition deteriorated. At that point he had over 30 tumors throughout his body and his oncologist later said that he would have guessed Bill had maybe 6 to 8 weeks left to live.

Enter next one of Bill’s clients, Jack (not his real name) a hemp farmer, who had been doing a lot of research into the use of cannabinoids for cancer treatment. Jack set Bill up with a THC/CBD regimen which started with the pure compounds which were then turned into tinctures, capsules, and suppositories at such high dosages it has made the eyes of some friends who suggested cannabinoids for pain relief pop out when told what those numbers were. After 6 weeks or so Bill’s tumors were gone and he is still alive today.

With that—personally knowing someone who had been unquestionably cured by an alternative treatment—and with my wife’s pain increasing and her condition deteriorating, we decided no harm, no foul in trying this. We got in touch with Jack who provided the pure CBD and THC (for free), along with instructions and some pointers to the research that’s out there (Google “Patent Number 20130059018A” as a place to start). While Jack did not promise this would cure my wife, he was adamant in saying that from a strictly palliative position, cannabinoids would be exceedingly better for her than the opioid/opiate treatments. This proved to be the case.

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