Why Us?

Posted by layingthegroundwork @layingthegroundwork, Jun 4 10:13am

My question is simply why us? What did we do wrong? Smoking too much, drinking too much? Living too much? Sex too much? Premature birth? Environmental hazards? What is the link criteria that makes us more prone to this disease? Is there anything that we can do or should have done differently?

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Prostate Cancer Support Group.

Profile picture for tattodice @tattodice

I am a healthy eater. Even more before surgery. Spinach salad almost every day for lunch, not organic however. I read a study that correlated healthier eaters (higher intake of raw vegetables) with increased risk for prostate cancer. Pesticides/ insecticide dilemma.

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@tattodice
You really should get the organic version. The pesticides in the non-organic foods tend to be bad for prostate cancer.

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Profile picture for jime51 @jime51

Hard to know. I ate two eggs for breakfast daily for years, looking for low-calorie protein, and learned after diagnosis that Choline in eggs shows a bent toward encouraging prostate cancer. A former sister-in-law died at 61 recently after fighting stage IV breast cancer for 18 years by adding becoming "ultra vegan" to her radiation, chemotherapy, and surgeries. I'm just grateful prostate cancer is relatively treatable.

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@jime51 wrote ❝I ate two eggs for breakfast daily for years, looking for low-calorie protein, and learned after diagnosis that Choline in eggs shows a bent toward encouraging prostate cancer.❞

This is a good illustration of the problem @readandlearn mentioned about correlation vs causation.

There has been no convincing correlation discovered between egg consumption and being diagnosed with prostate cancer, but researchers did find a correlation between very high egg consumption and the severity of prostate cancer (once someone is diagnosed).

So as far as we know, very high egg consumption doesn't cause prostate cancer (you can rest relieved), and it might not even cause it to become more severe — choline is an essential nutrient, regulated by your liver, and you'd die without it — but people who like to eat a lot of eggs and people who have a higher risk of developing the more severe forms of prostate cancer seem to have some factor X in common.

Unfortunately, in the media and online forums that gets simplified and distorted to "eggs cause prostate cancer," as nearly always happens with correlation studies. 😒

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Profile picture for heavyphil @heavyphil

@smoore4 Totally - and regretfully agree! What was purported to be ‘moderate’ drinking for decades is now labelled ‘heavy’ consumption, and the correlation to a list of medical woes is extensive.
I gave up alcohol completely 3 1/2 years ago when a simple blood test showed me to be ‘pre-diabetic’.
How can this be? I wondered when I don’t drink soda, juices, eat candy, cookies, etc. Had to be the 2 scotches (2 measured shotglasses - no more!) I consumed every night before dinner… Well, no more ‘pre diabetes….
I kick myself hard in the ass because I’ve known since forever that alcohol is a cellular poison. Did it cause my cancer? Maybe, but nothing’s definite; but it surely raised the risk when combined with other toxins unintentionally ingested in the air, water and USDA certified foods we eat.
Like a plane crash, it is never ONE thing that leads to the calamity, but a succession of errors all adding up to a big fat disaster…
Phil

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@heavyphil So what happened with alcohol is that initially the research community thought it had found a positive correlation between drinking red wine and cardiovascular health, and the beverage industry ran with that. But it turned out they'd missed some pretty obvious alternative causes and messed up the numbers.

Now the WHO classifies all alcohol, including red wine, as a Class 1 carcinogen, like tobacco (that means they are confident of causation) for 7 types of cancer: squamous cell cancer in the oral cavity, pharynx, larynx, and esophagus; colorectal cancer; liver cancer; and female breast cancer. 😢

AFAIK, prostate cancer is not currently in the list of cancers they're highly confident in linking to alcohol. And for the others, the risk rises significantly with heavy consumption.

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Profile picture for northoftheborder @northoftheborder

@heavyphil So what happened with alcohol is that initially the research community thought it had found a positive correlation between drinking red wine and cardiovascular health, and the beverage industry ran with that. But it turned out they'd missed some pretty obvious alternative causes and messed up the numbers.

Now the WHO classifies all alcohol, including red wine, as a Class 1 carcinogen, like tobacco (that means they are confident of causation) for 7 types of cancer: squamous cell cancer in the oral cavity, pharynx, larynx, and esophagus; colorectal cancer; liver cancer; and female breast cancer. 😢

AFAIK, prostate cancer is not currently in the list of cancers they're highly confident in linking to alcohol. And for the others, the risk rises significantly with heavy consumption.

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@northoftheborder Oh yeah, the great Resveratrol Scam; turns out you have to drink the equivalent of 10,000 bottles of red wine to get the ‘health’ benefit…but no one was checking because it was a great excuse to drink!
I don’t think an occasional anything is cause for concern; and I don’t believe a daily something will protect you from illness…especially that apple, which was where all our trouble began😳

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Profile picture for northoftheborder @northoftheborder

@jime51 wrote ❝I ate two eggs for breakfast daily for years, looking for low-calorie protein, and learned after diagnosis that Choline in eggs shows a bent toward encouraging prostate cancer.❞

This is a good illustration of the problem @readandlearn mentioned about correlation vs causation.

There has been no convincing correlation discovered between egg consumption and being diagnosed with prostate cancer, but researchers did find a correlation between very high egg consumption and the severity of prostate cancer (once someone is diagnosed).

So as far as we know, very high egg consumption doesn't cause prostate cancer (you can rest relieved), and it might not even cause it to become more severe — choline is an essential nutrient, regulated by your liver, and you'd die without it — but people who like to eat a lot of eggs and people who have a higher risk of developing the more severe forms of prostate cancer seem to have some factor X in common.

Unfortunately, in the media and online forums that gets simplified and distorted to "eggs cause prostate cancer," as nearly always happens with correlation studies. 😒

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@northoftheborder I think Mayo/Rochester has an exclusive Choline test used to evaluate for prostate cancer in some way. My cancer was Gleason 7 with unanticipated lymph node involvement.

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Profile picture for jime51 @jime51

@northoftheborder I think Mayo/Rochester has an exclusive Choline test used to evaluate for prostate cancer in some way. My cancer was Gleason 7 with unanticipated lymph node involvement.

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@jime51 Yes, Mayo Rochester uses the C-11 choline PET scan to check for metastases. It is especially useful for finding cancer that does not express PSMA and doesn't show up on a PSMA PET scan. It is useful in finding other cancers besides prostate cancer. It accidentally found oropharynx cancer in my husband when he was scanned for prostate metastases and the cancer showed up in his tonsil, throat, and lymph nodes. Mayo makes the choline in house because it must be used very quickly after production.

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Profile picture for jime51 @jime51

@northoftheborder I think Mayo/Rochester has an exclusive Choline test used to evaluate for prostate cancer in some way. My cancer was Gleason 7 with unanticipated lymph node involvement.

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@jime51
I’ve seen side-by-side images of the choline scan and the PSMA scan. They did not match up very well when it comes to prostate cancer. I am posting a picture of equivalent scans using the same body. As you can see the choline looks like just a big blob in some spots.

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Profile picture for jime51 @jime51

@northoftheborder I think Mayo/Rochester has an exclusive Choline test used to evaluate for prostate cancer in some way. My cancer was Gleason 7 with unanticipated lymph node involvement.

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@jime51 Yes, prostate cancer cells take up choline more than regular cells, I think, but (as with glucose) you have to have some choline in your blood or you will die. So there will always be choline (and glucose) for the prostate cancer cells to munch on.

The liver at least tries to regulate the choline level, even synthesising some when you don't get enough from your diet.

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after two recent falls, one on my bike, the other playing pickleball, the latter requiring a trip to the emergency room to get six stitches in my right hand middle finger and a CT to ensure no brain bleed, my doctor said "Kevin, I'm concerned about the level of your physical activity given you are on blood thinners..."

I responded, "thanx, you know, just getting up in the morning entails risk....

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Profile picture for kujhawk1978 @kujhawk1978

after two recent falls, one on my bike, the other playing pickleball, the latter requiring a trip to the emergency room to get six stitches in my right hand middle finger and a CT to ensure no brain bleed, my doctor said "Kevin, I'm concerned about the level of your physical activity given you are on blood thinners..."

I responded, "thanx, you know, just getting up in the morning entails risk....

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@kujhawk1978 I'm on Eliquis due to occasional Afib diagnosed a couple of years ago. I'm looking at having a Watchman heart procedure with the potential for permanently eliminating blood thinners.

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