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jpaul
@jpaul

Posts: 1
Joined: Oct 24, 2017

Two Phase Sleep Pattern

Posted by @jpaul, Oct 24, 2017

After 15 years using a CPAP for OSA, I stopped using the machine about a year ago. I was only able to use it for 3 to 4 hours per night as other conditions caused me to wake up and I couldn’t get back to sleep using the CPAP – way to uncomfortable. I took matters into my own hands (please don’t judge) and using my Tracker, which records sleep activity and heart beats plus occasionally a oximeter, I am able to record and analyze my sleep to see if I am having any OSA events during sleep. Due to osteoarthritis, Spondylithosis at L4, and fibromyalgia, I cannot sleep longer than 4 or 5 hours per night. Since I have been retired for 4 years, I am able to spend 3 hours actively involved in reading the newspaper, watching TV news, surfing the web, and writing. I then return to bed to sleep another 2 to 3 hours so that I average 7 to 8 hours of sleep. I have trained my body to sleep on my right side and rarely move from this position. I wake after sleep in the same position. This, I believe, reduces the possibility of an OSA sleep event that would occur if I slept on my back. The 2 phase sleep was quite common in the days before electricity and the light bulb. We have gotten away from it because we can stay awake longer involved in activities using light. I have found that I feel more refreshed after my second sleep and am good to go for 12 to 14 hours in the day. The only drawback is if there is another person in the family who sleeps late and is awake during my second sleep session. However, a routine can be created that works for everyone. Just don’t expect to see me out and about until after 12 noon.

REPLY

@jpaul your two phase sleep sounds very sinilar to mine. I have a problem sleeping for a different reason, incontinence. Some mornings I get up intending to go my health cliub but by the time I have my breakfast I hit a wall and can’t go – I’m afraid I will fal asleep in the pool ☹️ Some mornings I am able to fight through it but either way I need a nap afterwards. On the days that I get to the pool I am more energized afterwards, after my nap, so I really do try to get there.
JK

Hi, @jpaul. Please let me add my welcome to Mayo Clinic Connect. I thought you might like to meet some of the other Connect members here on this site who have talked about OSA. @hosta, @bcgal, @sandyh, @msrooster, @trippangie17, @margareto, @nawrot, @djpjmj, @bevtar98, @jimhd, @steve1948, @sanibelsandy, @maureercria and @dawn_giacabazi.

I also thought they’d be interested in your approach.

How did you learn about/come up with the idea to do the 2-phase sleep pattern?

@lisalucier

Hi, @jpaul. Please let me add my welcome to Mayo Clinic Connect. I thought you might like to meet some of the other Connect members here on this site who have talked about OSA. @hosta, @bcgal, @sandyh, @msrooster, @trippangie17, @margareto, @nawrot, @djpjmj, @bevtar98, @jimhd, @steve1948, @sanibelsandy, @maureercria and @dawn_giacabazi.

I also thought they’d be interested in your approach.

How did you learn about/come up with the idea to do the 2-phase sleep pattern?

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Hi @jpaul, I too have trouble staying asleep. I was diagnosed with OSA. After the third sleep lab,was diagnosed with both OSA and central apnea. I was having so many apneas every night and was constantly fighting the masks all night long. Now after the fourth sleep lab the doctor has said that the bipap can sometimes make the centeral apneas worse. Now I am oxygen only at night. I too sleep about 2-3 hrs get up for a bathroom break and try to go back to sleep. I have other issues also. I am lucky if I get 4-5 hrs sleep a night. I have only been on the oxygen for about 2 weeks. Now that there is no record of my sleep pattern, I am wondering if the oxygen is taking care of the problem? Our son died of sleep apnea. I can’t help by wonder if this is helping. I am still so tired, but can’t sleep more that a couple hours at one time. Maybe someone can answer my question. Thanks for your idea on 2 phase sleep pattern. You mentioned a Tracker?? What is this? & where can I get it?

@jpaul and @hosta — reminded of you today and wondering how the sleep is going?

@jpaul — are you continuing with the 2-phase sleep pattern?

@hosta — are you finding you are getting any more than 4-5 hours of sleep recently? Devastating that you son died of sleep apnea. I'm very sorry for that loss.

I am no longer on the CPAP. I have been on 2.5 oxygen at night only for several months. I still do not sleep well at night, maybe 4-5 hours per night. I have Central Apnea. I really don't know if it is helping the apnea because there is no report. I wish someone could tell me how oxygen helps central apnea or if it does! Can't get answers. I am still so tired, but they don't seem to worried about it because I am almost 82. If anyone can help answer some questions I would appreciate it. Tell me more about this tracker and two phase business.

@jpaul, So, do you have any apneas during either phase of your sleep? Is it more common in the first few hours or the latter? You are spot on with your statement about the divided night being the norm in the 1800's. I read there were several reasons. Laborers were worked so hard, for so long during the day that they were too tired to do anything but sleep when they arrived home, so the first sleep stage was usually as soon as they got home. Diaries from that period detail what they did while awake (eat, visit with neighbors, have sex now that they had energy, other general household chores). Another benefit to this schedule was that when they cooked on their wood stove, it would be cooler than when they initially arrived home. They would then return to sleep until the sun rose, because the mills opened back up with light. Anyway, forgive the rambling, but I am interested in your pattern of apneas as I have slept with a CPAP for at least 15 years and it has become pretty routine to me. Please keep us updated.
Good luck, Gary

@hosta

I am no longer on the CPAP. I have been on 2.5 oxygen at night only for several months. I still do not sleep well at night, maybe 4-5 hours per night. I have Central Apnea. I really don't know if it is helping the apnea because there is no report. I wish someone could tell me how oxygen helps central apnea or if it does! Can't get answers. I am still so tired, but they don't seem to worried about it because I am almost 82. If anyone can help answer some questions I would appreciate it. Tell me more about this tracker and two phase business.

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Thanks for your update, @hosta. Sorry to hear you are still not sleeping well at night. That would be frustrating, indeed.

Here is some Mayo Clinic information on central apnea that may be interesting to you:
https://mayocl.in/2GLSG4B.

I'd like to introduce you to a few members who have mentioned central apnea, like @kiwi, @lelhajj @yusofa and @trippangie17. @johnbishop @sandytoes14 and @darlia may also have some insights for you.

I'm sorry to hear you don't feel your provider is too worried about your being tired and not sleeping well since you are 82. That would be hard to take.

Did your doctor mention anything about the purpose of the oxygen for your central apnea?

@jpaul, I really hate to admit it but I didn't know what Obstructive sleep apnea (OSA) was until I looked it up. Yet as I read through your first post that started the discussion I realized I fit into a few of your descriptions. I wake several times a night due to having to make a bathroom trip. I also mostly sleep on my right side because the left side makes parts of me numb/tingly. I also have feet and leg issues with small fiber peripheral neuropathy and lymphedema so my feet feel cold most of the time which I think leads to tossing and turning. I'm sure you have done a lot of research but I ran into a site that has what I think a lot of good information on OSA and offers some help understanding the different treatments.

http://healthysleep.med.harvard.edu/sleep-apnea/

Hope this helps.

John

@hosta

I am no longer on the CPAP. I have been on 2.5 oxygen at night only for several months. I still do not sleep well at night, maybe 4-5 hours per night. I have Central Apnea. I really don't know if it is helping the apnea because there is no report. I wish someone could tell me how oxygen helps central apnea or if it does! Can't get answers. I am still so tired, but they don't seem to worried about it because I am almost 82. If anyone can help answer some questions I would appreciate it. Tell me more about this tracker and two phase business.

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@hosta I'm afraid I cannot offer any insight to you about central apnea. My problem is insomnia and then when I do fall asleep without taking Trazodone as prescribed, I suffer from night terrors. @lisalucier

@hosta

I am no longer on the CPAP. I have been on 2.5 oxygen at night only for several months. I still do not sleep well at night, maybe 4-5 hours per night. I have Central Apnea. I really don't know if it is helping the apnea because there is no report. I wish someone could tell me how oxygen helps central apnea or if it does! Can't get answers. I am still so tired, but they don't seem to worried about it because I am almost 82. If anyone can help answer some questions I would appreciate it. Tell me more about this tracker and two phase business.

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Thank you for the link on Central Sleep Apnea. As I read through it, I noticed that I fit the bill.

I fall asleep, but wake up sometimes within an hour or so and can't go back to sleep for 2-3 hours, then sleep again for a short time. My sleep is so broken up.

All I know is that the doctor said that oxygen helps central apnea. ???????

@hosta

I am no longer on the CPAP. I have been on 2.5 oxygen at night only for several months. I still do not sleep well at night, maybe 4-5 hours per night. I have Central Apnea. I really don't know if it is helping the apnea because there is no report. I wish someone could tell me how oxygen helps central apnea or if it does! Can't get answers. I am still so tired, but they don't seem to worried about it because I am almost 82. If anyone can help answer some questions I would appreciate it. Tell me more about this tracker and two phase business.

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@sandytoes 14. The night terrors would be terrible! I feel for you. Doctors would give me anything for sleep, because for a period of time I was falling a lot. We will keep pushing on,won't we?

@hosta

I am no longer on the CPAP. I have been on 2.5 oxygen at night only for several months. I still do not sleep well at night, maybe 4-5 hours per night. I have Central Apnea. I really don't know if it is helping the apnea because there is no report. I wish someone could tell me how oxygen helps central apnea or if it does! Can't get answers. I am still so tired, but they don't seem to worried about it because I am almost 82. If anyone can help answer some questions I would appreciate it. Tell me more about this tracker and two phase business.

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Hi, @hosta — that is interesting — and it makes sense — that you felt you fit the profile as you read the mayoclinic.org information on central apnea. Did you by chance see the Diagnosis and Treatment page, https://mayocl.in/2xaZSru, where supplemental oxygen is listed as one treatment for this condition?

As a non-medical professional, I don't have further information for you on the precise way in which oxygen helps with central apnea. I am, however, inviting two of our Connect volunteer mentors who have more knowledge and experience with lungs (and connections to others in their Connect groups who also may have relevant experience) to this discussion to see if they may have insights on how oxygen helps with central apnea. Please meet @llwortman and @windwalker.

With the two-phase sleep pattern you have now, are you finding you need a nap in the daytime?

@hosta

I am no longer on the CPAP. I have been on 2.5 oxygen at night only for several months. I still do not sleep well at night, maybe 4-5 hours per night. I have Central Apnea. I really don't know if it is helping the apnea because there is no report. I wish someone could tell me how oxygen helps central apnea or if it does! Can't get answers. I am still so tired, but they don't seem to worried about it because I am almost 82. If anyone can help answer some questions I would appreciate it. Tell me more about this tracker and two phase business.

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Hi, @hosta – You'd mentioned a few months ago you were not sleeping well at night. Wondering how your sleep is going?

@jpaul – how is your sleep going these days? Are you still following the 2-phase sleep pattern you'd mentioned?

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