Possible mitochondria damage?

Posted by bborth @bborth, Apr 27 10:32am

Not sure if this would be the right group to address this, but thought to start here to see what others may think is happening to me. In sum, I had major abdominal surgery this past September '19. A month after this, a suspected infection came about where I was given a course of antibiotics, Flagyl and ciproflaxin in combination. I soon began to experience symptoms like anything I have ever felt…..brain fog, balance issues, profound fatigue (as in exercise intolerance and prolonged recovery from exertion) and restless legs at night. My entire life I have done endurance competitions (10k's, triathlons) so I know what being tired feels like after pushing yourself. This fatigue is so different……like my energy production system is off. To try to do what was basically a warm up for me cause this type of tiredness/brain fog is scary….as in a part of body is broken now. I have heard that these antibiotics can really damage the mitochondria, but wanted to see what others have to say here. Would so appreciate any responses.

Hello @bborth,

You pose an interesting question about mitochondria damage. I did some research on the topic at Google Scholar and information seems to be there about the aging process and mitochondria damage as well as the use of chemotherapy. You do not mention your age, type of abdominal surgery nor any history of chemotherapy so perhaps this is not an issue for you. I have had three surgeries of the upper digestive tract and I know that it takes longer each time to recover from the effects of surgery, anesthesia, etc.

You said that you had abdominal surgery then followed by an infection and then two antibiotics. As you may know, ciprofloxacin can cause some problems with tendons, muscles, etc. It is suggested that you do not exercise heavily when you are taking this med. Here is some info from Drugs.com which lists some of the side effects of this type of med https://www.drugs.com/ciprofloxacin.html. Are you still taking the ciprofloxacin?

Please know that it is always your right to get a second opinion. What do your doctors say about your current symptoms?

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@hopeful33250

Hello @bborth,

You pose an interesting question about mitochondria damage. I did some research on the topic at Google Scholar and information seems to be there about the aging process and mitochondria damage as well as the use of chemotherapy. You do not mention your age, type of abdominal surgery nor any history of chemotherapy so perhaps this is not an issue for you. I have had three surgeries of the upper digestive tract and I know that it takes longer each time to recover from the effects of surgery, anesthesia, etc.

You said that you had abdominal surgery then followed by an infection and then two antibiotics. As you may know, ciprofloxacin can cause some problems with tendons, muscles, etc. It is suggested that you do not exercise heavily when you are taking this med. Here is some info from Drugs.com which lists some of the side effects of this type of med https://www.drugs.com/ciprofloxacin.html. Are you still taking the ciprofloxacin?

Please know that it is always your right to get a second opinion. What do your doctors say about your current symptoms?

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I had Roux En Y surgery for bile reflux, not for weight loss. My surgeon says that although not likely, antibiotics can cause damage to the stomach in regard to wiping out all the bacteria, which in turn can get into the mitochondria. I have sore hip tendons now whereas I never had this in all my time of doing intense running/biking. But it is the energy that is the main issue with me, just can't generate what I was able to prior to taking this medication. A functional doctor I am seeing as well seems to be convinced this is the root of my problem now, but fixing the gut with a balanced level of bacterial/flora will start the process of healing. Could be some time though. Just not used to being this lethargic all the time, which can be depressing.

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@bborth

I had Roux En Y surgery for bile reflux, not for weight loss. My surgeon says that although not likely, antibiotics can cause damage to the stomach in regard to wiping out all the bacteria, which in turn can get into the mitochondria. I have sore hip tendons now whereas I never had this in all my time of doing intense running/biking. But it is the energy that is the main issue with me, just can't generate what I was able to prior to taking this medication. A functional doctor I am seeing as well seems to be convinced this is the root of my problem now, but fixing the gut with a balanced level of bacterial/flora will start the process of healing. Could be some time though. Just not used to being this lethargic all the time, which can be depressing.

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@bborth This is a difficult place to be. It sounds like you are getting some great advice from your surgeon and the functional doctor.

From reading the Drugs.com article you can see the damage that can be done to the tendons if you use ciprofloxacin over a long time. Are you still taking the ciprofloxacin?

From what you say about, " fixing the gut with a balanced level of bacterial/flora will start the process of healing" you are probably taking probiotics?

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@hopeful33250

@bborth This is a difficult place to be. It sounds like you are getting some great advice from your surgeon and the functional doctor.

From reading the Drugs.com article you can see the damage that can be done to the tendons if you use ciprofloxacin over a long time. Are you still taking the ciprofloxacin?

From what you say about, " fixing the gut with a balanced level of bacterial/flora will start the process of healing" you are probably taking probiotics?

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I am not taking the medication now, in fact this is now on my list of "do not take" medications in the future unless on my death bed. Yes, taking probiotics to the fullest right now, and trying to eat a real clean, nutrient dense food diet. Lots of work to eat this way though. But if it helps in the long run, its worth it. But I can tell there is a broken system within, i have never felt this type of fatigue ever, even after doing endurance competitions.

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@bborth

I am not taking the medication now, in fact this is now on my list of "do not take" medications in the future unless on my death bed. Yes, taking probiotics to the fullest right now, and trying to eat a real clean, nutrient dense food diet. Lots of work to eat this way though. But if it helps in the long run, its worth it. But I can tell there is a broken system within, i have never felt this type of fatigue ever, even after doing endurance competitions.

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@bborth One other thought: I'm not very familiar with Roux En Y surgery, however, some surgeries of the digestive tract can lead to some nutritional deficiencies. Your body just doesn't absorb the nutrients that you eat in the same way they did before the surgery.

Have you had your vitamin levels checked?

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@hopeful33250

@bborth One other thought: I'm not very familiar with Roux En Y surgery, however, some surgeries of the digestive tract can lead to some nutritional deficiencies. Your body just doesn't absorb the nutrients that you eat in the same way they did before the surgery.

Have you had your vitamin levels checked?

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@bborth All the suggestion that Teresa gave should help you I have had that fatigue where I could hardly walk One thing that helps me is Korean Ginsing but check with your Dr first Another might be is ,after you have your vitamin levels checked is talk to a nutritionist

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Here is some really easy to understand information on mitochondria along with some related links that you might find helpful. I know it says Biology4Kids but hey aren't we all just kids at heart 🙂

Mitochondria – Turning on the Powerhouse — http://www.biology4kids.com/files/cell_mito.html

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Thank you all for responding! So appreciated. When something alters your life like this you want to try anything to get it back. My blood test revealed I was low in iron and vit K. Waiting for the urine test now to see what that shows. My functional doc wants to make sure I get the gut in shape to absorb nutrients normally, as like you said this can be really altered from the surgery. Taking Betaine HCL which is an acid additive, the premise being the system doesn't produce enough of this to break down foods. Trying not to be too scared with all this, as I said I have just never felt the tiredness/weakness to this degree in all my 56 years of life.

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@bborth

Thank you all for responding! So appreciated. When something alters your life like this you want to try anything to get it back. My blood test revealed I was low in iron and vit K. Waiting for the urine test now to see what that shows. My functional doc wants to make sure I get the gut in shape to absorb nutrients normally, as like you said this can be really altered from the surgery. Taking Betaine HCL which is an acid additive, the premise being the system doesn't produce enough of this to break down foods. Trying not to be too scared with all this, as I said I have just never felt the tiredness/weakness to this degree in all my 56 years of life.

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@bborth I do understand how you feel being tired and weak. I'm not sure what part of the digestive system is affected by the Roux En Y surgery but it is my understanding the duodenum is where absorption takes place. If your surgery was there, it might be contributing to the absorption of nutrients.

I'm interested in learning more about Betaine HCL to help break down foods. Do you have more information on that?

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Well, it seems like this surgery really altered things, as I have tested positive for SIBO now. Urine and stool test show some weird results as well, so am really trying to eat a clean healthy diet along with some supplements. The HCL is really adding acid to your stomach to help break down food better given that my surgery diverted bile away from the stomach. If you can't break these foods down, then less can be absorbed according to my functional doc. The less that is absorbed, the less the mitochondria have access to in order to build back up from being damaged. You can get this OTC, but I got mine through my functional doc. Worth a try, I seem to be eating more variety of foods now when I take this as compared to before.

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@bborth

Well, it seems like this surgery really altered things, as I have tested positive for SIBO now. Urine and stool test show some weird results as well, so am really trying to eat a clean healthy diet along with some supplements. The HCL is really adding acid to your stomach to help break down food better given that my surgery diverted bile away from the stomach. If you can't break these foods down, then less can be absorbed according to my functional doc. The less that is absorbed, the less the mitochondria have access to in order to build back up from being damaged. You can get this OTC, but I got mine through my functional doc. Worth a try, I seem to be eating more variety of foods now when I take this as compared to before.

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That is interesting, @bborth. You say that you are eating a variety of foods now. Are you attributing this to the HCL treatment as well?

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Seems like more than a coincidence, yes. Pasta is the one item I seem to tolerate better now after taking the HCL as compared to before.

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