I seem to find myself between a rock and a hard place

@heavyphil
I don't know Phil, there are some stupid things I do. You would think I would learn- but no I still will do them;)

@diverjer Yes, agreed that mega-dosing is a bad idea for many other reasons, but also, it's highly improbable that it caused your prostate cancer.

There are dozens (hundreds?) of studies that have shown correlations between factor X or Y and prostate cancer, so either almost everything causes prostate cancer, or most of them are just meaningless correlations (like ice cream sales and shark attacks going up at the same time of year, i e. summer).

In the latest edition of Dr Walsh's prostate cancer book, he wrote that while it's good to do everything in moderation, the only thing that was approaching the threshold for a consensus on causation was very high consumption of prepared meats (like hot dogs and bologna), but even that is only a bump — I've been vegetarian since 1997, and that didn't stop me from getting prostate cancer.

So

1. Yes, don't mega-dose or do other "alternative medicine" stuff any more unless you're certain it's safe, but

2. Stop worrying that you gave yourself prostate cancer. I've never mega-dosed anything or even smoked a cigarette, and I was still diagnosed with de-novo stage 4 prostate cancer (already moved to my spine) in 2021. It just happens. 😕

@diverjer Buddy, we ALL do things that seem stupid in hindsight…we’d never do them if we knew then what we know now.
You didn’t give yourself cancer and neither did I…in life, you get what you get DESPITE your best efforts!😖
Phil

@heavyphil Exactly. And on the other side of the coin, I didn't do anything to "deserve" to still be alive and N.E.D. 5 years after a stage-4 cancer diagnosis. I was just lucky. If anyone asks me my secret formula, I have nothing to share.

My friend was diagnosed with stage 4 lymphoma at the same time as my stage 4 prostate cancer diagnosis. He fought just as hard as I did (probably harder), and was initially doing much better, but we lost him 2 years ago. If he'd been diagnosed a few years later, his outlook would have been much, much better, because lymphoma treatment is now starting to get the big breakthroughs we had in prostate cancer treatment at the beginning of the 2020s.

It's comforting to imagine we could control whether we get cancer by eating the right food or doing the right exercise or even praying the right way (imagining that we gave ourselves cancer is just a variation of that: still a fantasy that it's possible to be in control). But aside from a little tweaking around the edges, life mostly doesn't work that way. Often good things happen to bad people, bad things happen to good people, and both happen to average people like most of us. We just have to roll with the punches and make the best of it.

I'm just stumbling into this discussion late, but remembering how "zinc ionophores" were discussed during COVID, including quercetin and EGCG, just having an apple a day, or a cup of green tea, might mean more to any zinc issue than the exact milligrams consumed.

@diverjer
Some great perspectives here.

If I were on AREDS for AMD, the first thing I would do is have my PCP order blood tests for serum zinc and copper (copper because too much zinc can inhibit copper absorption). If all come back normal, then my chosen (and hopefully well researched) supplementation for AMD would continue.

Zinc oxide, the compound in AREDS has a very low absorption rate (studies vary between 10% and 49%). Further, eating foods high in phytic acid (legumes, nuts, seeds, whole grains) or polyphenols and tannins (coffee and many teas) less than 2 hours before or after taking a zinc supplement will significantly inhibit its absorption. As the poster child for phytic acid and a life-long lover of coffee I found that the only way zinc supplementation could bring my small deficiency into range was to take it on an empty stomach before bed. And even then, the zinc needed to be zinc glycinate which has the highest absorption rate of zinc compounds and is very easy on an empty stomach.

Bill

@northoftheborder Well stated.

I was diagnosed with AMD 25 years ago. Shortly after that I started taking the AREDS supplements. At that time it included Beta-carotene, but not the Lutein or Zeaxanthin.

In 2006 I had a colonoscopy and the doctor removed three polyps. He commented that I had a factory producing them. Shortly after that I read an article in a health newsletter produced by Consumer Reports that associated Beta-Carotene with colon polyps. I stopped taking the commercial available AREDS formula and started to roll my on own without Beta-Carotene. I had difficulty in finding copper tablets of the appropriate strength here in Panama. After some research I hound the copper was in the formula because of the heavy dose of zinc. My solution was to cut the zine to 25 mg and not use the copper.

A couple years later I hound in my reading that Lutein and the Zeaxanthin were beneficial for the eyes and I added those to my formula. Last year my oncologist told me to take a vitamin B complex, so now I am essentially using the AREDS3 formula without the copper.

25 years and the Macula is still dry.

I was thinking about AREDS3 until I read the following:
Major clinical studies, such as the Selenium and Vitamin E Cancer Prevention Trial (SELECT) and follow-up analyses by organizations like Harvard Health Publishing and Johns Hopkins Medicine, found that high-dose vitamin E supplementation is linked to a 17% increase in overall prostate cancer risk, with even higher risks (up to 63% higher overall and 111% higher for high-grade prostate cancer) observed in men with low baseline selenium levels. These are the bad amounts 400 IU or 180 MG. Seems there are 2 forms of E? 400 IU of Vitamin E equals 268 mg if it is natural (d-alpha-tocopherol) or 180 mg if it is synthetic (dl-alpha-tocopherol).
Seems I could just take a multi vitamin and there is an eye vitamin I see in stores with Lutein and the Zeaxanthin in them and not a lot of zinc or E. Can get the zinc and E from multi vitamin. Sam's club has one with Lutein 25mg and Zeaxanthin 5mg both an extract from marigold flower. Still researching. Now just taking one of the PreserVision AREDS 2 from Bausch and Lomb instead of the 2 a day.

Then again I don't have a prostate anymore, but must still have some prostate tissue as PSA last reading was .06 and they say I have a high risk of BCR. So it's the BCR that I am concerned about. Actually, it's all over my head, need a physician that actually knows these studies as well as BCR risks.

@diverjer
Yes, I suggested that solution for you - that is the easiest and simplest way.

I really , really doubt that you will find any doctor that will actually know the answer to your questions or would find time to do real deep dive into this "problem", so the best way forward is to find supplement that you feel comfortable with and that will not "scare you".

Also, as I said before, most of the vitamins are pooped and peed out so perhaps you were not even exposed to those doses and your doctors TOLD you to take them so really, how and why do you think you are to blame for anything ? As everybody else already said - cancer happens - it is mutation and mutations happen in many ways. For PC, age is the biggest factor.

Just stop taking that supplement and find the one that does not make you nervous and that is it 👍😎.