Erosive Osteoarthritis

Posted by anniebrook @anniebrook, Feb 12 11:48am

I have been trying to get answers for many years to find out why my OA in my hands is so painful and debilitating. It doesn't look as bad to the eye as many other people I have met that also have OA but have huge joint nodes but say it's not too painful. I had the traditional basal thumb surgery on left and right hands,left went well 10yrs ago but right which I had one yr later has never been pain free.. About 6 mths ago the pain in the back of my right wrist became so much worse at the same time a large lump appeared.I thought this was probably a Ganglion then a few weeks later a softer round lump appeared on the dip joint on the inside of my right little finger which as made the joint very swollen. Eventually got Xrays of both hands which have now been diagnosed as Erosive Osteoarthritis which I have never heard of. Prognosis doesn't look good with this type of OA. Has anyone else been diagnosed with this and do I ask to be referred to a Rheumatologist ? How do I deal with this ? Is there any meds I can take for pain and to slow down the progression ? Thank you

@anniebrook I'm sorry to hear you are in pain and that you have been diagnosed with erosive osteoarthritis.

Members like @heyhey @catharbert @diana13 @artscaping @imatine @susanjd @donniehailey @ess77 @kathleen1314 @sunnyflower @parrotqueen @debbiem @cireland have discussed osteoarthritis generally and may be able to offer support and/or point you in the right direction regarding next steps and treatment options.

You asked if you should request to see a rheumatologist. May I ask, did your primary care refer you for the testing? Did you have an appointment yet with a provider going over the results?

REPLY
@erikas

@anniebrook I'm sorry to hear you are in pain and that you have been diagnosed with erosive osteoarthritis.

Members like @heyhey @catharbert @diana13 @artscaping @imatine @susanjd @donniehailey @ess77 @kathleen1314 @sunnyflower @parrotqueen @debbiem @cireland have discussed osteoarthritis generally and may be able to offer support and/or point you in the right direction regarding next steps and treatment options.

You asked if you should request to see a rheumatologist. May I ask, did your primary care refer you for the testing? Did you have an appointment yet with a provider going over the results?

Jump to this post

This all sounds so painful. I have osteoporosis arthritis just about everywhere in my body but my hands have been the latest part ive added to the list. I have trigger fingers on both hands ; mainly the middle and ring fingers and now the thumbs. I’ve been seeing and orthopedic hand surgeon who wants to open those trigger points in my hands basically by the base of those fingers. I’m a tad worrisome about that surgery since I haven’t heard anything about it previously. I just found out that the other knuckle problems in my hands typically the middle knuckle in my thumbs and fingers do not have any repairs or meds to help them. I do take celebrex once an evening for overall degenerative disc and knee problems.
I’d be interested to hear if anyone has any. 1. Insights on the trigger finger surgery and 2. Help with the degenerative knuckle osteoarthritis. Good luck with your erosive arthritis. Prayers.

REPLY

I have suffered with osteoarthritis and rheumatoid arthritis for more than 50 years. Last year I came upon something that took away all of my arthritis pain – when I was treating myself for osteoporosis. I started taking boron. Boron is a trace element. You can find it in raisins and prunes and other foods – but you just can't get enough from food. Just 3 mg with breakfast, lunch, dinner and before bed. I'm up to 6 mg at each meal and before I go to sleep. I used to cry myself to sleep every night with arthritis pain. I've had five hip replacements and two shoulder surgeries. Doctors don't know anything about boron. They say the upper limit is 20 mg per day and that is because after 20 mg, boron interacts with estrogen. I believe it aids in the absorption of estrogen. I know people who take 120 mg of boron per day for osteoporosis and EDS, so I am not worried about taking 21-24 mg per day. Everybody I have told about this agrees it gives complete relief. I cannot take NSAIDs and aspirin – I took too much and my stomach started bleeding. It is much less harmful than some of the drugs they prescribe for arthritis. I wish you good luck.

REPLY
@lustarr

This all sounds so painful. I have osteoporosis arthritis just about everywhere in my body but my hands have been the latest part ive added to the list. I have trigger fingers on both hands ; mainly the middle and ring fingers and now the thumbs. I’ve been seeing and orthopedic hand surgeon who wants to open those trigger points in my hands basically by the base of those fingers. I’m a tad worrisome about that surgery since I haven’t heard anything about it previously. I just found out that the other knuckle problems in my hands typically the middle knuckle in my thumbs and fingers do not have any repairs or meds to help them. I do take celebrex once an evening for overall degenerative disc and knee problems.
I’d be interested to hear if anyone has any. 1. Insights on the trigger finger surgery and 2. Help with the degenerative knuckle osteoarthritis. Good luck with your erosive arthritis. Prayers.

Jump to this post

I got that done on my thumbs and it worked brilliantly – nothing to it really. Please do not go hog wild with shots of cortisone into your fingers – it eats the bone up. The BEST thing I have found for arthritis – particularly in my hands – is boron. Boron is a trace mineral and I've been doing a lot of research on it. I've been taking it a little over two years for osteoporosis – but it took ALL of my arthritis pain away! If I feel any pain, I just pop another one. But basically I take 6 mg at breakfast, 6 mg at lunch, 6 mg at dinner, and 6 mg before I go to sleep. You can get it from raisins and prunes and other foods (you can do a search for this) – this is why Ruth Bader Ginsburg ate prunes all the time. You just cannot get enough from prunes to do much good. The upper limit for boron has been set at 20 mg/day – but I have spoken to hundreds of people who are taking 120 mg/day, and they have been taking that dose for years and years (EDS, osteoporosis and arthritis are the main reasons for taking boron). It is hard to find good research about boron – I was able to find some at the NIH (National Institute for Health). Doctors don't know anything about boron. My hand surgeon wanted to do extensive surgery on my hands and I was all set to get it – then I discovered boron. There is no way I am having any more arthritis-related surgery now that I have boron. And it is super cheap.
Good luck to you! Arthritis really hurts – I used to cry myself to sleep with my hands just hurting so bad. Now I can crochet and play piano again. A nutritionist might be able to tell you about boron. It is really hard to find anything about it – and yet people have been using it for hundreds of years for arthritis. This is my third winter without pain and I LOVE it!

REPLY

@parrotqueen thanks for the tip, I would like to try it. I just had back fusion on my lumbar and I think after 3 1/2 weeks that it is going to be successful. I am very hopeful, but I also have a lot of arthritis pain particularly in my hands. I also overdid the nsaids and I can’t take them anymore. Can you tell me do you buy yours at a health food store or over the Internet? Does it cause you any stomach indigestion? I find taking calcium and some vitamins really upset my stomach.

REPLY

Here is more information about boron from evidence-based sources.

– Brains, Bones, and Boron https://www.healthline.com/health/brains-bones-boron
"While boron supplements have been considered as a possible treatment for people with arthritis, more clinical evidence is needed to support this claim.
Boron is considered safe for most people, but large amounts can be harmful. There also isn’t data regarding a safe level for children younger than 1 year old. Its safety hasn’t been studied in pregnant women.
It’s important that you talk with your doctor before taking supplements. It’s unlikely that boron supplements are necessary. Most experts recommend increasing intake through dietary sources like fruits and vegetables before considering supplements.
If you don’t want to take additional boron supplements, eating foods that contain boron, like prunes, raisins, dried apricots, or avocados, can help increase boron levels."

– NIH Medline Plus: Boron https://medlineplus.gov/druginfo/natural/894.html
"When taken by mouth: Boron is LIKELY SAFE when taken by mouth in doses that don't exceed 20 mg per day. Boron is POSSIBLY UNSAFE when taken by mouth in higher doses. There is some concern that doses over 20 mg per day might harm a man's ability to father a child. Large quantities of boron can also cause poisoning. Signs of poisoning include skin inflammation and peeling, irritability, tremors, convulsions, weakness, headaches, depression, diarrhea, vomiting, and other symptoms."
"Hormone-sensitive condition such as breast cancer, uterine cancer, ovarian cancer, endometriosis, or uterine fibroids: Boron might act like estrogen. If you have any condition that might be made worse by exposure to estrogen, avoid supplemental boron or high amounts of boron from foods."

– HIN Boron Factsheet for Consumers https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Boron-Consumer/
– NIH Boron Factsheet for Professionals https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Boron-HealthProfessional/

The last 2 articles also include links to other useful related articles. Luckily, I eat prunes for digestive reasons (a-hem: helps keep me regular) and I love avocados. I'm confident that I'm getting enough dietary boron.

REPLY
@erikas

@anniebrook I'm sorry to hear you are in pain and that you have been diagnosed with erosive osteoarthritis.

Members like @heyhey @catharbert @diana13 @artscaping @imatine @susanjd @donniehailey @ess77 @kathleen1314 @sunnyflower @parrotqueen @debbiem @cireland have discussed osteoarthritis generally and may be able to offer support and/or point you in the right direction regarding next steps and treatment options.

You asked if you should request to see a rheumatologist. May I ask, did your primary care refer you for the testing? Did you have an appointment yet with a provider going over the results?

Jump to this post

I have a lovely man as my GP but I have to do my own research to tell him what I need and want. He sent me for an Xray but I think I need an MRI. Due to the 2 thumb surgeries in the past I thought I had better ask to go back to the same surgeon and get the what I am diagnosing as ganglions looked at. Hand surgeons by the way here in BC,Canada are plastic surgeons,who knew ? So, I daren't ask to see the Rheumatologist yet I think that he thinks I focus on my pain too much so never suggests ANYTHING unless I ask for it.

REPLY
@lustarr

This all sounds so painful. I have osteoporosis arthritis just about everywhere in my body but my hands have been the latest part ive added to the list. I have trigger fingers on both hands ; mainly the middle and ring fingers and now the thumbs. I’ve been seeing and orthopedic hand surgeon who wants to open those trigger points in my hands basically by the base of those fingers. I’m a tad worrisome about that surgery since I haven’t heard anything about it previously. I just found out that the other knuckle problems in my hands typically the middle knuckle in my thumbs and fingers do not have any repairs or meds to help them. I do take celebrex once an evening for overall degenerative disc and knee problems.
I’d be interested to hear if anyone has any. 1. Insights on the trigger finger surgery and 2. Help with the degenerative knuckle osteoarthritis. Good luck with your erosive arthritis. Prayers.

Jump to this post

I'm sorry you have so much pain,I think I may end up with a trigger finger as my ring finger on right hand does get stuck slightly sometimes.My gran suffered with it terribly,she would shout my cousin and I when we were around 8trs old to pull it out she wold scream out in pain,not nice at all.Nature is so cruel.

REPLY
@parrotqueen

I have suffered with osteoarthritis and rheumatoid arthritis for more than 50 years. Last year I came upon something that took away all of my arthritis pain – when I was treating myself for osteoporosis. I started taking boron. Boron is a trace element. You can find it in raisins and prunes and other foods – but you just can't get enough from food. Just 3 mg with breakfast, lunch, dinner and before bed. I'm up to 6 mg at each meal and before I go to sleep. I used to cry myself to sleep every night with arthritis pain. I've had five hip replacements and two shoulder surgeries. Doctors don't know anything about boron. They say the upper limit is 20 mg per day and that is because after 20 mg, boron interacts with estrogen. I believe it aids in the absorption of estrogen. I know people who take 120 mg of boron per day for osteoporosis and EDS, so I am not worried about taking 21-24 mg per day. Everybody I have told about this agrees it gives complete relief. I cannot take NSAIDs and aspirin – I took too much and my stomach started bleeding. It is much less harmful than some of the drugs they prescribe for arthritis. I wish you good luck.

Jump to this post

WOW, I might try that if I can get it in Canada.I don't have any estrogen after full Hysterectomy so no problem there.Wonder if anyone else has tried it.Or is there anything I can read about it ?I have tried every anti inflam and pain killer including Gabapentin,NOTHING works so Boron might be worth a try.Thank you for that

REPLY
@parrotqueen

I got that done on my thumbs and it worked brilliantly – nothing to it really. Please do not go hog wild with shots of cortisone into your fingers – it eats the bone up. The BEST thing I have found for arthritis – particularly in my hands – is boron. Boron is a trace mineral and I've been doing a lot of research on it. I've been taking it a little over two years for osteoporosis – but it took ALL of my arthritis pain away! If I feel any pain, I just pop another one. But basically I take 6 mg at breakfast, 6 mg at lunch, 6 mg at dinner, and 6 mg before I go to sleep. You can get it from raisins and prunes and other foods (you can do a search for this) – this is why Ruth Bader Ginsburg ate prunes all the time. You just cannot get enough from prunes to do much good. The upper limit for boron has been set at 20 mg/day – but I have spoken to hundreds of people who are taking 120 mg/day, and they have been taking that dose for years and years (EDS, osteoporosis and arthritis are the main reasons for taking boron). It is hard to find good research about boron – I was able to find some at the NIH (National Institute for Health). Doctors don't know anything about boron. My hand surgeon wanted to do extensive surgery on my hands and I was all set to get it – then I discovered boron. There is no way I am having any more arthritis-related surgery now that I have boron. And it is super cheap.
Good luck to you! Arthritis really hurts – I used to cry myself to sleep with my hands just hurting so bad. Now I can crochet and play piano again. A nutritionist might be able to tell you about boron. It is really hard to find anything about it – and yet people have been using it for hundreds of years for arthritis. This is my third winter without pain and I LOVE it!

Jump to this post

Thank you. Another lady said the same,I have never heard of it but as soon as the snow clears I'm out to the health food shop

REPLY
@ga29

@parrotqueen thanks for the tip, I would like to try it. I just had back fusion on my lumbar and I think after 3 1/2 weeks that it is going to be successful. I am very hopeful, but I also have a lot of arthritis pain particularly in my hands. I also overdid the nsaids and I can’t take them anymore. Can you tell me do you buy yours at a health food store or over the Internet? Does it cause you any stomach indigestion? I find taking calcium and some vitamins really upset my stomach.

Jump to this post

Yes I have major back pain too and again the pain clinic just puts shot's in there and/or a an ablation on the nerves.

REPLY
@colleenyoung

Here is more information about boron from evidence-based sources.

– Brains, Bones, and Boron https://www.healthline.com/health/brains-bones-boron
"While boron supplements have been considered as a possible treatment for people with arthritis, more clinical evidence is needed to support this claim.
Boron is considered safe for most people, but large amounts can be harmful. There also isn’t data regarding a safe level for children younger than 1 year old. Its safety hasn’t been studied in pregnant women.
It’s important that you talk with your doctor before taking supplements. It’s unlikely that boron supplements are necessary. Most experts recommend increasing intake through dietary sources like fruits and vegetables before considering supplements.
If you don’t want to take additional boron supplements, eating foods that contain boron, like prunes, raisins, dried apricots, or avocados, can help increase boron levels."

– NIH Medline Plus: Boron https://medlineplus.gov/druginfo/natural/894.html
"When taken by mouth: Boron is LIKELY SAFE when taken by mouth in doses that don't exceed 20 mg per day. Boron is POSSIBLY UNSAFE when taken by mouth in higher doses. There is some concern that doses over 20 mg per day might harm a man's ability to father a child. Large quantities of boron can also cause poisoning. Signs of poisoning include skin inflammation and peeling, irritability, tremors, convulsions, weakness, headaches, depression, diarrhea, vomiting, and other symptoms."
"Hormone-sensitive condition such as breast cancer, uterine cancer, ovarian cancer, endometriosis, or uterine fibroids: Boron might act like estrogen. If you have any condition that might be made worse by exposure to estrogen, avoid supplemental boron or high amounts of boron from foods."

– HIN Boron Factsheet for Consumers https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Boron-Consumer/
– NIH Boron Factsheet for Professionals https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Boron-HealthProfessional/

The last 2 articles also include links to other useful related articles. Luckily, I eat prunes for digestive reasons (a-hem: helps keep me regular) and I love avocados. I'm confident that I'm getting enough dietary boron.

Jump to this post

I'll start slowly for sure .I am a retired nurse so would always watch out for side effects Thank you

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