Dying Well

Posted by happykc @happykc, Apr 26 5:24pm

Does anyone know of a group, anywhere, who can support each other while dying in love and grace? I do not fear dying, for a number of reasons. It will come soon, and I hope I can welcome it, I've worked hard to get to this point. But this is the first time in my eight decades that I feel lonely. I would love to share feelings, experiences, etc. with other like minded folks, but no one in my periphery shares my joy at looking forward to the transition. Family would be horrified, friends terrified. I cannot discuss this with my therapist, he is terrified himself and would be sure I am depressed and possibly suicidal. I am not. I am not anxious to die, I love my life. I used to wonder why God kept me around so long, as everyone around me, even those younger, are passing. I'm thinking it might be the grand gift of the 'Golden Years', 'cuz I am loving these days! I am not anti aging, but have no interest in attempting to retain my youth or live forever. My attitude is "I'm ready whenever He is". Not a religious person, but one of great faith and spirituality. I've spent hours scrolling around to see if there is any entity, group or person who shares my feelings. All I find is stuff to support fear of death, and how to get over it. I'm over it, and have been for some time. I'm trying to age with love and gratitude, and meet the transition the same way. I live each day as joyfully as I can. I'm just kinda bummed that I have no one to share this joy with, who feels as I do. Life has taught me that shared experiences have such great value, but maybe not this? Maybe Mayo should consider a "Dying Well" support group. I can't believe I'm the only person out there. But if I tried to start one, OMG! Friends and family would plotz! I think I'm just tired of having to keep my feelings to myself. It's a long journey, and a great one, and I'd love to share with others like me, learn from each other, help each other along. Thanks to any who read this, and suggestions are welcome but don't be a wiseass.

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Aging Well Support Group.

@happykc

what a wonderful mindset, @happilyalive! That's what frustrates me the most, that most everyone is younger than me, and scared of death, so I have to keep this lovely journey to myself. But I see by the number of responses I've received, it's on a lot of people's minds. When I encounter something that has the potential to be dark and scary, I want to shine a light on it, make it less scary. I'm very close with some of my grands and great grands, and being young, they freak out. My 8 year old great grand started asking questions about death. He's a smart kid, and that's a normal age to start wondering about death. I watched the people around him get all uncomfortable and it brought me back to a time when I was little, prolly asked the same questions, got the same uncomfy feelings. When he asked if I'm so old, will I die soon, everyone hollered "no", and I said 'yes'. Poor kid , everyone started yammering at once, and I just grabbed him and went out back, and we discussed it over a game of cornhole. He's fine with it, he says, but would like some advance notice so he could say goodbye. His paternal great grandma passed recently, so of course he has questions. Of course they ask at the wrong time, without warning, that's what kids do. People were like cockroaches, scurrying out of the kitchen! Thank you again, for your wonderful post of love and support. Peace and Every Good!

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Hi, Thank you for this post. Truly I don't see how people can think of living without thinking of dying also. In America it seems like a taboo subject most of the time. I totally loved your 8 year old great grand asking you about death. It's good that he went to someone he trusted to tell him the truth. I smiled when you mentioned how children ask at the wrong time but am thankful that you were there to help him see the light in the matter. You still have people that you touch with your love, wisdom and advice. Thank you for that. We need more of it. I do hope to be like you whenever my end is nearing and who knows, it may be. So, every day live life to the fullest and enjoy something every day. Keep us posted on how things are going and have a truly blessed day.

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@catartist

Ditto- at 78 and getting more crippled fast it now seems , don’t know how close I am. But not afraid - tired of pain frankly but love being alive. My family finds my thoughts ‘morbid ‘ - not! Anyway - interesting topic

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I guess I'm not the only one in this boat. So many have commented on family's inability to hear us, and understand that we're not being 'morbid' or 'depressed'. This is just another big event in everyone's lives, but guess we've just got to keep it to ourselves. Walk this part of the path alone, or with God, but can't discuss it normally like any other big event. You be you and I'll be me @catartist, I think we've earned that right!

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@erinchasen

It's been said that one can't really live until one is prepared to die. Preparing for eternity is the most important thing anyone can do and having that assurance brings peace and joy. Jesus said “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." John 14:6. I'd be happy to do a Bible study (online or in person) for anyone who is interested in learning more.

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Thank you, @erinchasen. I appreciate your kind offer of Bible Study, but am no stranger to BS. This is less about me and God, and more about our culture, it's ageism and fear of death. But I had to make sure I was 'right' with My Creator, first and foremost. I can't live without Him, and I certainly don't want to die without Him. Peace and Every Good!

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@edsutton

I feel that this moment is the only life I'll ever have.
The "me" of yesterday or twenty years ago is gone, absent.
So, while I may not have been aware of it, I have been constantly dying away.
Every blade of grass is, in its way, momentarily significant, and so am I.
And eventually our moments are gone.
We won't be worrying about it then and perhaps we can best not worry about it now.
This could be my last moment! I don't want to miss it!

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It is the only moment, promised, @edsutton , thank you for that reminder. I'm a little too much 'ducks in a row' for my own good, and you brought me back to the present. I'd hate to miss a moment of these wonderful days, fretting. I don't really fret, I just get happy at times about my next adventure, and want to share that joy. Peace and Every Good!

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@catartist

Hope they DO add a dying support group! We all wonder and get myopic I think - how can we not? And it is lonely…even with family and my husband here. They are marvelous but don’t want to hear about dying thoughts. Will see a counselor soon on a couple of topics ( with husband - daughter seeing same ). Just lots to navigate. Others thoughts are welcome!

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Good for you, @catartist! That sounds like a good topic for family therapy! That's what I was hoping for, and I do love my therapist, but he's got health issues himself and is quite terrified. We have to remember these are human being just like us. I'll stick with him, but it was disappointing that we cannot have a dialogue about this. Peace and Every Good! And I agree with you, a discussion group about dying would be great. That's what I am searching for. But no one is in more death denial than our healthcare industry, so for now, we are on our own.

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@isadora2021

@happykc I totally get what you mean. So many groups cater for people who fear death, worry about what happens after death and generally need help with coming to terms with dying.

Others (like myself) are comfortable with the prospect of dying and don’t fear it or worry about what happens next. Whether there’s something
or nothing.

Yet many of our loved ones ARE fearful about our deaths and aren’t comfortable talking about it. They are the ones who need those other support groups!

When I was diagnosed with stage 4 appendix cancer the first thing I did was to come to terms with death. I don’t want to die, I love my life. But I don’t fear death and I am at peace that it could be very close around the corner.

If I say something to my family or friends which recognises that (eg “I must do X soon to make sure I get the chance before I die)” they rush to tell me I mustn’t think like that etc. Yes I must!!! I want a group that understands that. It’s not a misery group we’re after but a joyful group supporting each other in making the most of what’s very likely a more limited time.

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Bless you, @isadora2021! You nailed it. I have to watch what I say, I have grown granddaughters who will dissolve in tears when I say stuff like you mentioned. It's nice to be loved, and to know I will be missed, but let's get real. I'm older than dirt. It's OK. I've had, and continue to have a wonderful life. I cherish every moment (umm, almost!) I'm here. I'm a 3x cancer survivor, one that almost took me, another that still may. It's all good now, all that pain and suffering is behind me, and I am loving life. All of it. And you are right, it's not a misery group, but joyful. Many of us have been there and back, and know the worst is behind us. Peace and Every Good!

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@cynthiaftaylor

I am a believer in Jesus, and you stated you weren’t
,so I won’t push my beliefs on you, but I have had a POLST and a DNR since I watched several loved ones suffer with the decision of life support and when to let someone go. I am also not suicidal, I love every minute of my life, but I do not ever want to put my Husband or sons in a position of when is the time to turn off life support, I choose to die whenever the good Lord calls me home. I have had legal document signed by my Phycician , for many years and have had to under spinal surgery in 2020. That meant general anesthesia.
I just turned 70 and hope to have many years left here on earth. Barring any diseases or accidents, I seem to have longevity genes. Mom and Dad passed in 2023 at the ages of 90-1/2 and 92. They died within 2 months of each other, and were not sick. Mom is one of 8 kids and only her youngest brother died before 80 due to agent orange poising in Vietnam Nam. Everyone else lived late 80’s or mid 90’s. None had memory issues. I don’t have a support group to recommend to you, but I do understand how you feel about aging . If I was unable to care for myself or unable to make my own decisions, I wouldn’t want anyone else to have to make those decisions for me. Thus my DNR and Polst. My Husband children know my wishes and have promised to honor them. We will all eventually die. But I made my own wishes known in a legal document. I don’t consider this decision horrific, and I am of sound mind.

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Hi @cynthiaftaylor . I didn't mean to give the impression to you that I am not a believer. I'm sorry if I mislead you. My faith in God, and in the Holy Trinity is the strongest it's ever been. The words that speak to me are from St. Paul, "pray ceaselessly". And I do, doubt I would have made it this far on my own. I am planning on revisiting all of my advance directives this summer. I did them forever ago, and my wishes have not changed. But the laws do. I recently retired as an Eldercaregiver, my second career. I stopped because my last patient passed and I knew I was burnt out. Not on caregiving, I've loved all my folks to bits. I had to step away from the medical industry, because I was getting combative. I was also horrified by the rampant ageism in medicine. I sure didn't expect that. All my people have their ducks in a row, had advance directives, DNR, POA. Etc. Here in AZ we can file them with the AG's office, which is a lifesaver. I would make multiple copies, all signed and notarized. I would take them to their doctors' offices, and local hospital and request they be placed in the patient's chart. If it was a Vet, the VA got a set. I kept the originals, and several copies in file. Why? Because nobody reads anymore. If you don't have an advocate there hospitals routinely ignore the directives. I would show up, wave it all in staff's faces and that's when the combat commenced. "well, we've never seen this before". Try going beyond the first page in the chart, you morons. If a patient comes through ER, without said advocate, here's what happens. The race is on, to pad that hospital bill with useless diagnostics that cost a fortune. Setting the cost aside, I've seen patients in extremis, close to death get hustled all over town in ambulances for extra imaging, etc. Families getting hysterical, because their loved one's wishes are not being addressed or even considered. There are laws now, in most states, addressing this problem, but it is endemic to the elderly death experience. I had seen enough, and had to step away, for my own health and sanity. There are loopholes, even in DNR. Is she really dying? They have to make sure, before they can even look at the DNR. Let's do a bunch of tests and see. I hope your doc is still around to advocate for you, or a trustworthy family member or designee. It's dreadful time for families. They are bereft as it is, and under enormous stress. Which is the cue for everyone to pile on. The social worker, who is getting hassled by her bosses, to empty the bed. The insurance company reps, who come off ultra sincere while they tell you softly, that oh no, that isn't covered. They will ask the patient rep million stupid questions and then lie in the answers. It's always the next person in line's job to tell the family that what the previous said is incorrect, until your head spins! I am my family's patient rep, because I am the family pit bull. My daughter is starting to take over, even tho she's in poor health herself, but is finding her advocate's voice. And me, I'm done. No more doctors ('cept eyes and feet). No more invasive procedures, no more questionable meds. It's been five years now, and I am doing great, having taken the responsibility for my own self care. I was once a nurse, my mother was a nurse. I have two cousins' who are doctors. We're all on the same page with this stuff, and they are all over the US. Marcus Welby is long gone. Hospitals are for profit, Which means they answer to a Board of Investors who are only interested in profitability. And senior are the cash cows in that equation, for the Boomers are aging out, while the system is collapsing. Peace and Every Good! Mayo Rochester is the exception, I've heard, but Mayo Phoenix and Jacksonville are the same as everyone else.

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@lilymarie

These replies are hopefully of support and comfort for you.
My sweet client passed 2/25/25, 94 and 2 months short of turning 95. No pain, but A LOT of anxiety thru the past 10 years. Thankfully, you are not in that kind of mental anguish. We had fun and laughter was essential up until it was not necessary any longer. I was amazed by her willingness to share her last few days of "seeing" loved one's and also strangers who just made her beam in delight. I'd ask her, "do you see them?" "YEs! They are talking to me." I could see her lips moving but no words I could hear. I said, "try talking to them" she relied, "oh I am!" She said, "why is D. here?" (her husband who passed 4 years earlier and who I took care of for 6 years.) I said, "because, he chose to be here for you. He loved you a lot, Dear". She smiled as he had never in 42 years said, I lovecyou". You are in my thoughts...you are doing GREAT!! Take good care and stay ALIVE as long as you wish/can!! All the best~

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Bless you, @lilymarie. My last patient passed not long ago, also. What a blessing it is, to help them through those final hours of anxiety. Yours had one foot in the now and the other in eternity. I have had similar experiences, and they are so precious to me. Some have conversed and love to share that, because it soothes them. My last guy was 94.5 and he was ready. My previous one lived to be 104 and was sharp as a tack. These are wonderful, blessed experiences, some times almost miraculous, especially if the person hits that sweet spot, and is clear and conscious. That's usually within 72 hours of the end. And when you see their joy at that point, you know all is well. Peace and Every Good!

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@happykc

Bless you, @lilymarie. My last patient passed not long ago, also. What a blessing it is, to help them through those final hours of anxiety. Yours had one foot in the now and the other in eternity. I have had similar experiences, and they are so precious to me. Some have conversed and love to share that, because it soothes them. My last guy was 94.5 and he was ready. My previous one lived to be 104 and was sharp as a tack. These are wonderful, blessed experiences, some times almost miraculous, especially if the person hits that sweet spot, and is clear and conscious. That's usually within 72 hours of the end. And when you see their joy at that point, you know all is well. Peace and Every Good!

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Thank you for the kind and generous feedback. It is very true what you wrote and, like you (pretty sure), there have been many wonderful stories you now reflect on that were pretty miraculous. Such as it is with me and which is why I love being a caregiver. That sweet spot is what we wait for when we are paired with someone who is facing their next step forward into eternity. That sweet spot is what I look forward to and am grateful that, for whatever reason, it was me who was chosen for them. It took ten plus years for my client (beloved friend as I knew her since I was 13) to have NO anxiety any longer...her soul found the peace and her mind was healed. I miss my friend fiercely every day, and yet, my own heart is happy she is no longer in that state of anxiety. Peace, harmony, infinite well being...!

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