Which vaccination should you get with pre-existing heart conditions?

Posted by davej @davej, Nov 18, 2021

I was afraid to get vaccinated, 3 family members with in 2 days of being vaccinated had heart attacks. It has been a few months and I have not heard of anybody else having that problem. All three family members were told getting vaccinated had nothing to do with heart attacks. So I have asked 2 nurses I know if they told their patients which one to get when you have preexisting conditions. They both told me that they were not qualified to give their opinion on he vaccine. So I'm asking any of you, if you have been told by a medical professional which one is more beneficial with preexisting conditions ? Which one did you get and why? Thanks for giving me an education on these vaccines.

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Dave, Thank you for your question. I am a patient like you, and I had an allergic reaction to the Pfizer vaccine which was probably a reaction to the polyethylene glycol which is it. After that, I spoke with my allergist, and the vaccine that he was choosing for himself was the Johnson & Johnson. He told me it has a lot less side effects than either of the m-rna vaccines (which are the Pfizer and Moderna). Here is a link to information from the CDC about myocarditis and pericarditis (heart related) and the 3 vaccines that are available in the US. This information states:
"Since April 2021, increased cases of myocarditis and pericarditis have been reported in the United States after mRNA COVID-19 vaccination (Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna), particularly in adolescents and young adults. There has not been a similar reporting pattern observed after receipt of the Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine (Johnson & Johnson)."

Here is the link: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/clinical-considerations/myocarditis.html

Symptoms after vaccinations are reported and collected which allows researchers to look for links. Something that happens may not be related to a vaccine, or it may, but it will take some time to figure out. Some people have pre-existing conditions and already have inflammation which could be heart related in someone who is already developing heart disease.

This link explains how data is evaluated by VAERS, the vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System. One of the misconceptions of looking at the data is to assume that a vaccine caused a specific problem. "Generally, VAERS data cannot be used to determine if a vaccine caused an adverse event. VAERS data interpreted alone or out of context can lead to erroneous conclusions about cause and effect as well as the risk of adverse events occurring following vaccination."

Here is the link about safety monitoring. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4632204/

Does this help ease your mind? Have you discussed your concerns with your doctor?

REPLY

Jennifer interesting information and I'm now wondering and this is based on Heart only Transplant but seeing we don't know the age of our donor if that could also be a factor . I'm not sure if even our Doctors know anything about our donor when it comes to possible side effects. Interesting I may ask that question. Thanks

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@jenniferhunter

Dave, Thank you for your question. I am a patient like you, and I had an allergic reaction to the Pfizer vaccine which was probably a reaction to the polyethylene glycol which is it. After that, I spoke with my allergist, and the vaccine that he was choosing for himself was the Johnson & Johnson. He told me it has a lot less side effects than either of the m-rna vaccines (which are the Pfizer and Moderna). Here is a link to information from the CDC about myocarditis and pericarditis (heart related) and the 3 vaccines that are available in the US. This information states:
"Since April 2021, increased cases of myocarditis and pericarditis have been reported in the United States after mRNA COVID-19 vaccination (Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna), particularly in adolescents and young adults. There has not been a similar reporting pattern observed after receipt of the Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine (Johnson & Johnson)."

Here is the link: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/clinical-considerations/myocarditis.html

Symptoms after vaccinations are reported and collected which allows researchers to look for links. Something that happens may not be related to a vaccine, or it may, but it will take some time to figure out. Some people have pre-existing conditions and already have inflammation which could be heart related in someone who is already developing heart disease.

This link explains how data is evaluated by VAERS, the vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System. One of the misconceptions of looking at the data is to assume that a vaccine caused a specific problem. "Generally, VAERS data cannot be used to determine if a vaccine caused an adverse event. VAERS data interpreted alone or out of context can lead to erroneous conclusions about cause and effect as well as the risk of adverse events occurring following vaccination."

Here is the link about safety monitoring. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4632204/

Does this help ease your mind? Have you discussed your concerns with your doctor?

Jump to this post

Yes I talked to cardiologist and was informed any of them is better than not taking any of them. I was also told he has no scientific evidence that any vaccines causes more health issues and that's what worries me. Are the pharmaceutical companies being upfront with us and the government agencies. Thanks for your response.

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@danab

Jennifer interesting information and I'm now wondering and this is based on Heart only Transplant but seeing we don't know the age of our donor if that could also be a factor . I'm not sure if even our Doctors know anything about our donor when it comes to possible side effects. Interesting I may ask that question. Thanks

Jump to this post

@danab Dana, one thing that I wonder about is about the transplant anti-rejection medications which I would guess would lower an immune response. I wonder if that lowers an immune response to everything or more specifically a transplanted organ. It's an interesting question if the age of the organ donor or the immune system of the recipient and their age is a bigger factor. If you get an answer, I'd be interested in hearing what your doctor said. These articles recommend maintaining masking and social distancing protocols for transplant patients who are vaccinated, and that 2 doses of the m-rna vaccines is not enough for protection.

I found this regarding Covid vaccinations and organ transplants.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2108861
This talks about being immuno-compromised because of anti-rejection medications.
This is an excerpt from this link: https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/newsroom/news-releases/organ-transplant-recipients-remain-vulnerable-to-covid-19-even-after-second-vaccine-dose

"People who receive solid organ transplants (such as hearts, lungs and kidneys) often must take drugs to suppress their immune systems and prevent rejection. Such regimens may interfere with a transplant recipient’s ability to make antibodies to foreign substances, including the protective ones produced in response to vaccines."

REPLY
@davej

Yes I talked to cardiologist and was informed any of them is better than not taking any of them. I was also told he has no scientific evidence that any vaccines causes more health issues and that's what worries me. Are the pharmaceutical companies being upfront with us and the government agencies. Thanks for your response.

Jump to this post

@davej The information about possible vaccine side effects is being reported by the public and being studied by the CDC which is the governing body that gives permission for the vaccines to be used. It isn't the vaccine manufacturers who are stating safety, it is the researchers at the CDC who study everything. What is it about your doctor's statement that worries you? When he says there isn't evidence that vaccines cause more health issues, isn't that what you would want to hear as in good news? There can be multiple causes for health issues and pre-existing conditions. The pharmaceutical companies can't sell their vaccines without CDC approval. One thing that humans often do is to think that a problem isn't going to happen to them. Doctors see the statistics on everything regarding health, and they are the ones on the front lines trying to save people who gambled and lost the bet. So many have died from Covid, or survive with a disability that Covid caused. I take that very seriously. I wasn't able to get a 2nd m-rna vaccine because of an allergic reaction, so I tested the ingredients in the J & J by eating some ice cream with Polysorbate 80 in it (which is in the J & J). I didn't feel great eating that, but it was tolerable and I took antihistamines, so I had the J & J vaccine and did fine. I had 2 days of fatigue and headache, but it disappeared almost instantly at the 48 hour mark except for the injection site pain that lasted about a week. Do you trust your cardiologist's opinion?

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Not sure if govt and pharmaceutical companies I trust. Was told take vaccine and no side effects and you wont get covid. Now it's you can still get covid just not as bad but now we have to get a booster to stop covid or dont get as sick. All vaccines have side effects I think, but which vaccine should a person get with preexisting conditions?

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@davej

Not sure if govt and pharmaceutical companies I trust. Was told take vaccine and no side effects and you wont get covid. Now it's you can still get covid just not as bad but now we have to get a booster to stop covid or dont get as sick. All vaccines have side effects I think, but which vaccine should a person get with preexisting conditions?

Jump to this post

@davej Science and medicine are always evolving. So is the Covid virus with many variants that happen because of errors in copying when it is duplicating itself. Some of the variants became so much more infectious because they make much larger quantities of virus. It is in the Coronavirus family which includes the virus that causes the common cold, and even though people get a cold, they don't develop immunity to catching it, so it can happen repeatedly. People have caught Covid multiple times too. I suspect that was one of the challenges in creating a vaccine for Covid. From the beginning when the vaccines were first available, they didn't promise it would entirely prevent Covid; they said it would lessen the chance of severe disease that requires hospitalization and lessen the death rate. That proved to be true after the public started getting vaccinated. They also didn't know how long immunity from a vaccine would last because this vaccine was new so there was no data available, but they have found that booster shots are needed now because the strength of immunity drops off after a period of time. They can measure the antibody levels in a patient's blood. This is just how it is. Perhaps in the future, the vaccines will be better. People spread this virus before they know they are sick.

I have a pre-existing condition, allergic asthma, and I know how exhausted I am if I cannot get enough oxygen because my airway is compromised which makes my heart rate increase and work a lot harder. I am at a higher risk with Covid because of this, and lung damage and scar tissue from Covid would make my disability so much worse. Some patients required lung transplants after Covid. If there is a preexisting heart condition, Covid can make that worse too. You can survive Covid, but may be left with a long term disability and require oxygen or a wheelchair to manage. Covid also causes blood clots and micro blood clots clogging the circulatory system and stressing the heart. Then there is the financial risk and cost of a long hospitalization and insurance may not cover all of it.

To me the risk of not getting an available vaccine to prevent Covid is a much higher risk than receiving a vaccine. Talk to your doctor about your risks. My doctor told me the risks are less (and they are all very low risks) with the J & J. That vaccine is built similar to the way they make a flu vaccine from a killed virus. That is different from the M- RNA vaccines which use a sequence of messenger RNA for the spike protein to train the immune system. My issue with the Pfizer vaccine was because it contained PEG (polyethylene glycol) which apparently I am allergic to. I didn't have a severe reaction. I just got a slight pain in my tongue, a queasy headache and a pain on the jaw/neck junction on the side that got the injection within 45 minutes of the shot. It was all brought under control easily with steroids and antihistamines. Even with that, It was still worth doing. I had to wait a long time before I could find the J & J because they would not give me a 2nd dose of Pfizer. The advice my doctor gave to me to prevent a reaction was to take an antihistamine like Benadryl and 3000 mg of vitamin C ahead of time. I did that when I got the J & J and my symptoms after were a headache and being tired for 2 days, and a sore arm for a week. Then suddenly it all got better and the symptoms disappeared in a few minutes.

It was all worth it, and I will get a J & J booster when I can. Trust your doctor's advice. They are informed about the state of vaccines and what your personal risks may be. There are risks all the time with health and disease. This is one choice you can make to greatly reduce your risk of serious disease and take control of your health.

REPLY
@jenniferhunter

@davej Science and medicine are always evolving. So is the Covid virus with many variants that happen because of errors in copying when it is duplicating itself. Some of the variants became so much more infectious because they make much larger quantities of virus. It is in the Coronavirus family which includes the virus that causes the common cold, and even though people get a cold, they don't develop immunity to catching it, so it can happen repeatedly. People have caught Covid multiple times too. I suspect that was one of the challenges in creating a vaccine for Covid. From the beginning when the vaccines were first available, they didn't promise it would entirely prevent Covid; they said it would lessen the chance of severe disease that requires hospitalization and lessen the death rate. That proved to be true after the public started getting vaccinated. They also didn't know how long immunity from a vaccine would last because this vaccine was new so there was no data available, but they have found that booster shots are needed now because the strength of immunity drops off after a period of time. They can measure the antibody levels in a patient's blood. This is just how it is. Perhaps in the future, the vaccines will be better. People spread this virus before they know they are sick.

I have a pre-existing condition, allergic asthma, and I know how exhausted I am if I cannot get enough oxygen because my airway is compromised which makes my heart rate increase and work a lot harder. I am at a higher risk with Covid because of this, and lung damage and scar tissue from Covid would make my disability so much worse. Some patients required lung transplants after Covid. If there is a preexisting heart condition, Covid can make that worse too. You can survive Covid, but may be left with a long term disability and require oxygen or a wheelchair to manage. Covid also causes blood clots and micro blood clots clogging the circulatory system and stressing the heart. Then there is the financial risk and cost of a long hospitalization and insurance may not cover all of it.

To me the risk of not getting an available vaccine to prevent Covid is a much higher risk than receiving a vaccine. Talk to your doctor about your risks. My doctor told me the risks are less (and they are all very low risks) with the J & J. That vaccine is built similar to the way they make a flu vaccine from a killed virus. That is different from the M- RNA vaccines which use a sequence of messenger RNA for the spike protein to train the immune system. My issue with the Pfizer vaccine was because it contained PEG (polyethylene glycol) which apparently I am allergic to. I didn't have a severe reaction. I just got a slight pain in my tongue, a queasy headache and a pain on the jaw/neck junction on the side that got the injection within 45 minutes of the shot. It was all brought under control easily with steroids and antihistamines. Even with that, It was still worth doing. I had to wait a long time before I could find the J & J because they would not give me a 2nd dose of Pfizer. The advice my doctor gave to me to prevent a reaction was to take an antihistamine like Benadryl and 3000 mg of vitamin C ahead of time. I did that when I got the J & J and my symptoms after were a headache and being tired for 2 days, and a sore arm for a week. Then suddenly it all got better and the symptoms disappeared in a few minutes.

It was all worth it, and I will get a J & J booster when I can. Trust your doctor's advice. They are informed about the state of vaccines and what your personal risks may be. There are risks all the time with health and disease. This is one choice you can make to greatly reduce your risk of serious disease and take control of your health.

Jump to this post

@davej Thank you for your message and I wanted to respond here so others can also benefit. I applaud you for making the decision to get a J & J vaccine and here is a link that can help you find a provider to get the vaccine. Just choose the vaccine you want and type in your zip code and you will get a map with locations. I suggest also call the location to confirm they do in fact have what you are looking for. Early on last year, I would find the J & J vaccine listed, and then find that the pharmacy listed was doing the Pfizer or Moderna instead. A lot has changed since then with availability, but it is best to check and make an appointment if needed. https://www.vaccines.gov/search/

Good for you!

REPLY

Made the decision last week checked with 2 locations and was told no j and j but had other two avail for a shot on the spot no appt needed. I was told no difference in any of 3 all are equally effective and no need to worry about side effects. I asked why they didnt have j and j and they had no answer so I said thanks but no thanks but I know I can find a provider this week with j and j in stock thanks dave have a great week after thanksgiving everybody.

REPLY
@jenniferhunter

Dave, Thank you for your question. I am a patient like you, and I had an allergic reaction to the Pfizer vaccine which was probably a reaction to the polyethylene glycol which is it. After that, I spoke with my allergist, and the vaccine that he was choosing for himself was the Johnson & Johnson. He told me it has a lot less side effects than either of the m-rna vaccines (which are the Pfizer and Moderna). Here is a link to information from the CDC about myocarditis and pericarditis (heart related) and the 3 vaccines that are available in the US. This information states:
"Since April 2021, increased cases of myocarditis and pericarditis have been reported in the United States after mRNA COVID-19 vaccination (Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna), particularly in adolescents and young adults. There has not been a similar reporting pattern observed after receipt of the Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine (Johnson & Johnson)."

Here is the link: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/clinical-considerations/myocarditis.html

Symptoms after vaccinations are reported and collected which allows researchers to look for links. Something that happens may not be related to a vaccine, or it may, but it will take some time to figure out. Some people have pre-existing conditions and already have inflammation which could be heart related in someone who is already developing heart disease.

This link explains how data is evaluated by VAERS, the vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System. One of the misconceptions of looking at the data is to assume that a vaccine caused a specific problem. "Generally, VAERS data cannot be used to determine if a vaccine caused an adverse event. VAERS data interpreted alone or out of context can lead to erroneous conclusions about cause and effect as well as the risk of adverse events occurring following vaccination."

Here is the link about safety monitoring. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4632204/

Does this help ease your mind? Have you discussed your concerns with your doctor?

Jump to this post

Jennifer,

Thank you for posting the link. I have several serious heart problems, low IgM, hypoxia with unknown cause. I am on oxygen and self isolating most of the time except for appointments. All my doctors tell me to get the booster. I did not have side affects from the two Pfizer vaccines, but I’ll get J&J this time. The more I read about mRNA vaccines the less comfortable I am. I will be flying to Mayo in January and I need some protection.

REPLY
@janet23

Jennifer,

Thank you for posting the link. I have several serious heart problems, low IgM, hypoxia with unknown cause. I am on oxygen and self isolating most of the time except for appointments. All my doctors tell me to get the booster. I did not have side affects from the two Pfizer vaccines, but I’ll get J&J this time. The more I read about mRNA vaccines the less comfortable I am. I will be flying to Mayo in January and I need some protection.

Jump to this post

Thanks, Janet. I'm glad I could help. Good for you for being pro-active! Stay warm too! If you are headed to Rochester in January, it can get pretty cold. Do you have someone traveling with you to help?

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Yes, I have a friend who is a retired emergency room nurse coming with me. I am looking forward to my consultations.

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