Angiogram procedure

Posted by winproc @winproc, Jun 21 2:20am

i am 78 and just had an angiogram which diagnosed Severe Ostial to mid vessel LAD disease and also Moderate mid and distal RCA disease
Negative on pressure wire FFR and RFR
I went into this expecting stents but have had none, just told an initial discussion will be had by my consultant cardiologists on treatment options.
I fear in UK costs on the NHS may be a factor due to age and need best independent advice on the best way forward options.

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Profile picture for winproc @winproc

I will await a consultation with the cardiologist and as it advised on the report ' keep taking the pills.'
A first venture into AI could well be helpful and appreciate that advice.

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'Severe ostial to mid vessel LAD disease' means this:
Ostia is Latin for 'mouth'. When you get an ablation for atrial fibrillation, the ostia of the pulmonary veins are isolated with a circle of tiny burns. That is, the mouths of each of the four pulmonary veins is encircled with small scars to block the unwanted electrical signals from emanating from out of the ostia of the four veins. This is what is meant by 'PVI' procedure, or simply 'pulmonary vein isolation.'
So, your report suggests that you have obstruction in your LAD (left anterior descending artery, also known as 'the widow maker'). Your obstruction is rated as 'severe', meaning you should be treated immediately. Further, the '...to-mid-vessel...' means it runs from the ostium, or the mouth, all the way to the midpoint of that vessel. So, it unfortunately is not good news.
Next, RCA is the 'right coronary artery'. The report is that the mid line, or point, to the far side is moderately diseased, so no real hurry, but something should be done about it soon...for your sake.
Here is an article on RFR and FFR pressure wire assessment. It's not in my wheelhouse as of yet, so you'll have to do this yourself. Note that there are a few click-throughs required before you will be allowed to read it properly:
https://www.cardiovascular.abbott/int/en/hcp/disease-management/physiology/indices/ffr-rfr-epicardial-assessment.html

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Profile picture for gloaming @gloaming

'Severe ostial to mid vessel LAD disease' means this:
Ostia is Latin for 'mouth'. When you get an ablation for atrial fibrillation, the ostia of the pulmonary veins are isolated with a circle of tiny burns. That is, the mouths of each of the four pulmonary veins is encircled with small scars to block the unwanted electrical signals from emanating from out of the ostia of the four veins. This is what is meant by 'PVI' procedure, or simply 'pulmonary vein isolation.'
So, your report suggests that you have obstruction in your LAD (left anterior descending artery, also known as 'the widow maker'). Your obstruction is rated as 'severe', meaning you should be treated immediately. Further, the '...to-mid-vessel...' means it runs from the ostium, or the mouth, all the way to the midpoint of that vessel. So, it unfortunately is not good news.
Next, RCA is the 'right coronary artery'. The report is that the mid line, or point, to the far side is moderately diseased, so no real hurry, but something should be done about it soon...for your sake.
Here is an article on RFR and FFR pressure wire assessment. It's not in my wheelhouse as of yet, so you'll have to do this yourself. Note that there are a few click-throughs required before you will be allowed to read it properly:
https://www.cardiovascular.abbott/int/en/hcp/disease-management/physiology/indices/ffr-rfr-epicardial-assessment.html

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Many thanks for the reply. As a direct result of which and with no contact from the Cardiologist I am postponing a general anasthetic operation arranged for me for Wednesday next July 2 for a breast cancer operation for the removal of a benign nodule. I having already had a Magseed inplanted to locate it for the surgeon on the day. Initially they were not going to proceed but i am told now it was the Cardiologist who was pusshing for removal.
Initially i intend to make a private appointment with the consultant who supervised the Angiogram procedure to find out his advice the the Cardiologist.
At the pre op I was informed that there appears to have been a conversation from the Cardiologist to the breaat surgeon saying I am fit to undergon full anaesthetic for the removal operation next Wednesday. I will explore your suggested link and my wife and I really appreciate your help with my heart problems. Here in the UK, although treatments are all free at the point of need, it is becoming clear that an age related restriction could be being strategically applied

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Profile picture for winproc @winproc

Many thanks for the reply. As a direct result of which and with no contact from the Cardiologist I am postponing a general anasthetic operation arranged for me for Wednesday next July 2 for a breast cancer operation for the removal of a benign nodule. I having already had a Magseed inplanted to locate it for the surgeon on the day. Initially they were not going to proceed but i am told now it was the Cardiologist who was pusshing for removal.
Initially i intend to make a private appointment with the consultant who supervised the Angiogram procedure to find out his advice the the Cardiologist.
At the pre op I was informed that there appears to have been a conversation from the Cardiologist to the breaat surgeon saying I am fit to undergon full anaesthetic for the removal operation next Wednesday. I will explore your suggested link and my wife and I really appreciate your help with my heart problems. Here in the UK, although treatments are all free at the point of need, it is becoming clear that an age related restriction could be being strategically applied

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It happens everywhere, but in socialized medical care milieux it seems to be more nefarious. Each physician/surgeon relies on tried and true calculi to figure out how best to proceed with each patient, but also in relation to the more acute needs of other patients standing around hoping for their own interventions. Sometimes it means we get told to come back another day. Or, the surgeon tells us we're simply not good candidates and that the risk of further deterioration or damage is too high for their liking.
Please note that I was only relating my opinion, and that was with very little information about your case, especially other factors that the cardiologist might have been cognizant of and that he/she is very much worried about. I'm guessing your oncologist and your cardiologist would have had a frank and comprehensive discussion about you and the relevant factors, so I urge you to proceed cautiously with LOTS OF consultation.

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Many thanks again for your correspondence and recomendations regarding my present situation, It has been a real help keeping me on track with the fact that I need perhaps a second opinion on the angiogram revelations apart from my cardiologist of the past three years, who has been so far managing my AF with pills. There has, as I say, been no communication or arranged appointment from Cardiology after two weeks now, just the contact and Magseed implantation for the breast nodule removal operation to be carried out in two days time with full anaesthetic. This was not used for a bladder neck re section some two years ago at a different hosptal due to my heart condition.

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Profile picture for winproc @winproc

Many thanks again for your correspondence and recomendations regarding my present situation, It has been a real help keeping me on track with the fact that I need perhaps a second opinion on the angiogram revelations apart from my cardiologist of the past three years, who has been so far managing my AF with pills. There has, as I say, been no communication or arranged appointment from Cardiology after two weeks now, just the contact and Magseed implantation for the breast nodule removal operation to be carried out in two days time with full anaesthetic. This was not used for a bladder neck re section some two years ago at a different hosptal due to my heart condition.

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Re the second opinion idea; I was beset and preoccupied with uncertainty as to the most apropos treatment of my condition, i.e; circulation issues. I learned that Cleveland Clinic has a Second Opinion program, wherein you give them access to your records (no matter where you were treated), and they assign one of their specialists to analyze your condition and the treatment that you are on, and then render a written "second opinion" on your treatment, and how it might be "tweaked", or changed altogether. For a small additional fee you can confer with the doctor on video on your computer. Overall, the second opinion is costly, but if you are lying awake for hours, and your brain is doing flip-flops, it might be worth it to you. It was to me.

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I have brought up a Cleveland Clinic paper title of Fractional Flow Reserve, mentioned on my very brief two line report Line two:-
Moderate mid and distal RCA disease,
Negative on pressure wire FFR and RFR .
On the paper in relation to RFR line. How do I prepare for the coronary fractional flow reserve assessment ?
It clearly says Youe provider may ask you to refrane from taking certain medicines especially BLOOD THINNERS several days beforr the procedure.
In my case i was provided with a full box of Apaxaban and full box of 75ml Asprin and told that with my meal the night before my Angiogram to take 6 Apaxaban AND 4 Asprin.
If they are testing floww with the wire I would think as in this paper I should have normal blood thicknes to see haow bad the blockage was ?

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Profile picture for winproc @winproc

I have brought up a Cleveland Clinic paper title of Fractional Flow Reserve, mentioned on my very brief two line report Line two:-
Moderate mid and distal RCA disease,
Negative on pressure wire FFR and RFR .
On the paper in relation to RFR line. How do I prepare for the coronary fractional flow reserve assessment ?
It clearly says Youe provider may ask you to refrane from taking certain medicines especially BLOOD THINNERS several days beforr the procedure.
In my case i was provided with a full box of Apaxaban and full box of 75ml Asprin and told that with my meal the night before my Angiogram to take 6 Apaxaban AND 4 Asprin.
If they are testing floww with the wire I would think as in this paper I should have normal blood thicknes to see haow bad the blockage was ?

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The way I understand it is that the blood thinners are to prevent blood clots during the procedure. For my angio with stent placement, they also gave heparin. But ask your doctor to be sure.

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Profile picture for astohrer @astohrer

The way I understand it is that the blood thinners are to prevent blood clots during the procedure. For my angio with stent placement, they also gave heparin. But ask your doctor to be sure.

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Thanks for this explanation I eventually saw my Cardiologist today regarding the reults of the angiogram with RFR and FFR wire. It was as you say re thinners as they were considering stents but did not do so. Today he told me we are past the stent situation what they found it would have to be a bye pass but again because I do not feel any serious angina pains the surgeons have had a discussion meeting and decided to keep me on medication . If and when I complain tol the cardiologist of serious angina pains they will do the operation.
I am 80 next year and now fear I will have other problems preventing that or they may well say Just that I am too old. Will be onsidering a second opinion in view of my severe (widow maker) diagnosis.

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I had a mild heart attack 2 years ago and ended up in the hospital. They did a angiogram and said I had a 70% blockage in 2 of my main arteries to the heart.
My cardiologist put me on meds which allowed me to carry one with limits.
Lately I have been short of breath with chest discomfort.
I heard of a procedure where they sonic waves to soften the calcium use a balloon to open the arteries and put in stents. Has anyone had this procedure and what were the results. Does it ease the breathing and chest pain.
Any info on this would be greatly appreciated as I'm planning to get it done.
I am constantly tired and low on energy. Im also 90 years old and other than that in good shape. Thank you.

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Many thanks for your reply, I have been on medication for three years after a stress echo diagnosed arterial fibtulation and a heart attack I had never known about. I had cardiac MRI and CT then angiogram a few months ago.
They prepared me for stents and had to take lots of clopidogrel and asprin the night before the procedure.
No stents were fitted because they said i was too bad and past that with severe stenosis in a dangeroua place for stents at an "ostio" mouth of chamber and half way down.
It will, I presume, when they do your angiogram procedure,be where the stenosis is located. Hope it is OK for yourself as stents are much easier on the body to recover. They told me as I have no substantial angina pains I will remain on medication until I start with more severe symptoms and then they will do full Bye Pass or Re vascularisation.
I am advised to seek a second opinion in another health authority area here in UK where traetments should be frea at point of use but often restricted by age on occasions.
Very best wishes with your angiogram.

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