1. < Sleep Health

No sleep or sleep meds

Posted by cherawgirl @cherawgirl, Sep 15, 2023

I have been unable to sleep since stopping Ambien (5 months ago) and Ativan(2 months ago). I have not slept for over 2 hours a night. I understand I supposedly have rebound insomnia, however I have had a sleep problem since I was very young. I have researched this question on the web but only found answers that sleep aids ARE BAD!

My question is: What is worse? No sleep or sleep using sleep meds?

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con123 | @con123 | Oct 15, 2023
In reply to @kawanhee "Everything I read about mirtazapine says it’s safe compared to benzos. A sleep therapist prescribed it..." + (show)
@kawanhee

Everything I read about mirtazapine says it’s safe compared to benzos. A sleep therapist prescribed it for me, and my pcp is fine with my staying on it long term. I’m 68 years old and if I’m on it the rest of my life, so be it.

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It is supposedly a very old, very safe drug - for sleep low dose is the key as it is sedating at 7.5, maybe up to 15mg but after that point the appetite stimulate and anti-depressant factors come into play and it can actually be stimulating. We don't want weight gain and if we are not depressed we would not want higher doses! I'm 65, so we are in the same boat - not a lot of "safe" sleep meds for us.

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2 replies
con123 | @con123 | Oct 15, 2023
In reply to @kawanhee "Your comment resonates with me because it’s very similar to my story. On lorazepam but my..." + (show)
@kawanhee

Your comment resonates with me because it’s very similar to my story. On lorazepam but my pcp wanted me off it and wasn’t working for sleep anymore. Plus reading about benzos made me understand that taking them long term can wreak havoc with your brain. Cbt-I….exact same experience. Mirtazapine is working for me along with 1 mg melatonin. But after reading what you wrote about melatonin, I’m going to cut back on that. Is sleep perfect every night for me? No, but it’s far superior to what it once was.

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#metoo! Not the kind of sleep I got while on Klonopin, but I have to remind myself that was a drugged sleep. As good as it felt to sleep, I'm glad to be on the other side on benzos. And my anxiety about sleep is about gone.

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con123 | @con123 | Oct 15, 2023
In reply to @lisaschultz327 "Cindi sue, I am a long term insomniac (50 years) which only gets worse the older..." + (show)
@lisaschultz327

Cindi sue, I am a long term insomniac (50 years) which only gets worse the older I get. In answer to your questions, I tried Mirtazapine, and maybe it is just my psychology, but I had terrible nightmares. When I complained to the psychiatrist, he upped my dose and the nightmares got worse until the third time the dose got upped and my nightmares took on the style of horror movies. I had never had a nightmare before that drug and I don’t have them now. I have been on everything from OTC drugs through probably a dozen RX drugs. Ambien was the best although I never got a full 7 hours sleep - only about 5. It too finally stopped working and now I make sleep cocktails out of a few different types of rx drugs which get me about 3 hours sleep and when I wake up I take a few more and get another 3 hours sleep. While on Ambien, I never sleep walked, ate or drove although I have read about that happening to some people. I am planning on asking my doctor for an Ambien CR rx since I have not had any ambien in at least 6 months. Maybe I’ll get lucky.

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I took Ambien years ago, and it helped me sleep 7-8 hours. The problem was I still had horrific night sweats and anxiety. My psychiatrist switched me to Klonopin, which was a wonderful drug for 15 years. I took 1mg every night, never increased it and I slept so well. No night walking or sleeping or any of that, not with Ambien or with Klonopin. Now I'm not sleeping great with mirtazipine and occasional CBT/THC gummy but I am sleeping - may be broken or light sleep, but I feel ok the next day.

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2 replies
cindisue | @cindisue | Oct 15, 2023
In reply to @lisaschultz327 "Cindi sue, I am a long term insomniac (50 years) which only gets worse the older..." + (show)
@lisaschultz327

Cindi sue, I am a long term insomniac (50 years) which only gets worse the older I get. In answer to your questions, I tried Mirtazapine, and maybe it is just my psychology, but I had terrible nightmares. When I complained to the psychiatrist, he upped my dose and the nightmares got worse until the third time the dose got upped and my nightmares took on the style of horror movies. I had never had a nightmare before that drug and I don’t have them now. I have been on everything from OTC drugs through probably a dozen RX drugs. Ambien was the best although I never got a full 7 hours sleep - only about 5. It too finally stopped working and now I make sleep cocktails out of a few different types of rx drugs which get me about 3 hours sleep and when I wake up I take a few more and get another 3 hours sleep. While on Ambien, I never sleep walked, ate or drove although I have read about that happening to some people. I am planning on asking my doctor for an Ambien CR rx since I have not had any ambien in at least 6 months. Maybe I’ll get lucky.

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It's just so amazing to me (and sad) that doctors let so many people not get the sleep they need simply because they are against the sleep meds that truly work.....and the doctors let these people suffer......and not get much needed sleep! It's really Outrageous to me!!

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cindisue | @cindisue | Oct 15, 2023
In reply to @con123 "It is supposedly a very old, very safe drug - for sleep low dose is the..." + (show)
@con123

It is supposedly a very old, very safe drug - for sleep low dose is the key as it is sedating at 7.5, maybe up to 15mg but after that point the appetite stimulate and anti-depressant factors come into play and it can actually be stimulating. We don't want weight gain and if we are not depressed we would not want higher doses! I'm 65, so we are in the same boat - not a lot of "safe" sleep meds for us.

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I wonder if it's more sedating than benadryl...??.?

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1 reply
cindisue | @cindisue | Oct 15, 2023

To cherawgirl, Your question is just so freaking obvious....it's very sickening that doctors are so against sleep meds....especially the ones that work the best! Obviously getting good quality sleep taking sleep meds is waaaaay better than not sleeping.....I just don't get it....i understand its best to sleep with no medication....BUT, if you can't sleep....then medications are necessary for you to get the sleep you so desperately need!! And that's just common sense! Come on doctors ....lighten up on the sleep meds and give people back a good quality of life because they are getting sleep!!!

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cindisue | @cindisue | Oct 15, 2023
In reply to @ripley "My situation is exactly like yours. Can you share what sleep meds you tried that you..." + (show)
@ripley

My situation is exactly like yours. Can you share what sleep meds you tried that you don't want to take again? I currently take 2.5mg melatonin and 75-100mg Trazodone which help me fall asleep, but I wake after a few hours and most often can't fall back asleep. I'm also trying THC 15mg and CBN 12mg sleep gummies, but they aren't helping much. My sleep Dr only recommends hypnotic drugs, where you can sleep walk and not remember it, so I don't want to take those. I see a different Dr next week and am quite sure she will recommend the same meds. I am getting desperate to find something that helps me.

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You need to try the meds the sleep specialist wants you to take. Don't think you are going to sleep walk or bad things like that while taking these meds...that is a very very rare thing and I believe it only happens when a person takes the medication incorrectly. Like, taking it and not going to bed right away.....We all need sleep including you....give the meds they suggest a try....you need to find something that works for you. Sleep meds get a very bad rap....BUT, on the flip side, they truly help alot of people!! Me included!

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ripley | @ripley | Oct 15, 2023
In reply to @con123 "I took Ambien years ago, and it helped me sleep 7-8 hours. The problem was I..." + (show)
@con123

I took Ambien years ago, and it helped me sleep 7-8 hours. The problem was I still had horrific night sweats and anxiety. My psychiatrist switched me to Klonopin, which was a wonderful drug for 15 years. I took 1mg every night, never increased it and I slept so well. No night walking or sleeping or any of that, not with Ambien or with Klonopin. Now I'm not sleeping great with mirtazipine and occasional CBT/THC gummy but I am sleeping - may be broken or light sleep, but I feel ok the next day.

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What is your dose of mirtazipine? I tried 7.5mg one night and did sleep better, but I was so groggy and sleepy for the next 3 days that I didn't want to try it again. I had a 15mg pill than I split in half. The pill is so tiny I don't think I can break off a smaller piece to reduce the dose to less than 7.5mg. I am also trying THC/CBN capsules and gummies, taking about .17mg THC and 12mg CBN. It does help a little, but I worry about taking it every night.

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1 reply
lisaschultz327 | @lisaschultz327 | Oct 15, 2023
In reply to @con123 "I took Ambien years ago, and it helped me sleep 7-8 hours. The problem was I..." + (show)
@con123

I took Ambien years ago, and it helped me sleep 7-8 hours. The problem was I still had horrific night sweats and anxiety. My psychiatrist switched me to Klonopin, which was a wonderful drug for 15 years. I took 1mg every night, never increased it and I slept so well. No night walking or sleeping or any of that, not with Ambien or with Klonopin. Now I'm not sleeping great with mirtazipine and occasional CBT/THC gummy but I am sleeping - may be broken or light sleep, but I feel ok the next day.

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clonazapam is what I am taking mixed with a muscle relaxant now. Unfortunately I have to take the entire 3 - 1 mg. Clonazapam at once in order to fall asleep which is actually prescribed to me to be taken 1 at a time 3x a day for anxiety. However, after taking all 3 at once, I do get to sleep and I’m not experiencing anxiety during the day either. However, I would still prefer a benzo sleep medication that works. I’m tired of doctors wanting to prescribe all the new drugs that don’t work. At my age, I’m not particularly worried about addiction although I don’t seem to get addicted to the drugs anyway. I took ambien for at least 13 years and when it stopped working I just stopped taking it and it didn’t bother me at all. I wouldn’t call what happened ambien rebound. I just went back to my normal state of insomnia.

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1 reply
lisaschultz327 | @lisaschultz327 | Oct 15, 2023
In reply to @kawanhee "So sorry you’re going through this! Not sleeping and thinking about not sleeping every night is..." + (show)
@kawanhee

So sorry you’re going through this! Not sleeping and thinking about not sleeping every night is tortuous. Although it didn’t work well for me, have you tried cbt-I? Also, mirtazapine is used for sleep at low doses, 7.5 mg

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I don’t know what cbt-I is. Mirtazapine caused nightmares which I had never had until that drug.

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