Fosamax or Exercise?

Posted by msou @msou, Jul 4, 2022

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Fosamax or Exercise? (Fosamax-or-Exercise.pdf)

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@aspine

Hi, CAllallo,
When I retired, I was a year and a half away from Medicare. So went to a different medical group during that time until I could go back to my old one. Well, I was due for my DEXA. They did it at the new facility. But they also told me it could not be compared to my old scans because they use a "different" DEXA scanner. Apparently, you need to stay with the same brand (?) of scanner to be able to compare old files.

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Thanks for the information. I would bet that a lot of doctors aren't advising people of that caveat. I usually get such tests done in the same place for consistency, but have moved twice in the past 15 years which made that impossible.

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@mariegroh

Actually lots of doctors recommend it. And It's always your choice to take prescription drugs with known (serious) side effects OR try other alternative treatments. I know that I have not had any fractures and I've had 10 sessions so far..I see my strength increasing on each machine. And my balance has improved especially on the vibration plate. If the money is an issue and you also don't think it will work, it's obviously not for you. I can't believe that you would pay NOTHING for a drug..so yes $2400 MINUS what you'd pay for medical treatments if you choose to forego them as I have. I'm going to be 73 in October. As I've said, my osteoporosis is in the moderate range per doctor BASED ON THE LAST DEXA SCAN which I now know can be as inaccurate as 15-20%. I JUST know that I'm not doing RECLAST which has been linked to multiple deaths as well as KIDNEY FAILURE. And/or any of the other biphosphonates which have been linked to MANY MANY MANY spontaneous femur fractures (HORRIFICALLY painful from what I've read) and/or jaw bone weakness and breaks.

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Appreciate your thorough and thoughtful reply. Unfortunately, my provider is not supporting it. I'm not a fan of drugs either but don't want to risk fracturing. My osteoporosis is in the severe range. Money is not an issue.. but I just wish there were more evidence that it was helpful.

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I have had DEXA's on many different machines. The trend is nevertheless clear 🙁

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@rubyz

Why are there so few actual reports of benefits from Osteostrong, even some showing worsening bone density and occasional fracturing while using the equipment? Most everything to date seems anecdotal and there is no way to tell which people who reported benefit used Osteostrong alone or with medication, supplements, etc. Without studies or actual evidence, doctors are not going to recommend or stand behind it. The cost for me would be 2,400 annually for a 10 minute once a week use of the equipment. If it were beneficial, I'd be all in. Don't get me wrong, I am NOT a fan of the current pharmaceutical offerings but for those of us with really high fracture risk, there doesn't seem to be much of a choice. You may be younger and have been T scores than some of us.. but I don't know.

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Osteostrong was not a good choice for me. It caused a spinal fracture. When I started PT this week, she said I wasn’t the first one that this had happened to from going to Osteostrong.

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@rubyz

Appreciate your thorough and thoughtful reply. Unfortunately, my provider is not supporting it. I'm not a fan of drugs either but don't want to risk fracturing. My osteoporosis is in the severe range. Money is not an issue.. but I just wish there were more evidence that it was helpful.

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I TOTALLY get that! As do I (wish there were more evidence). One of the coaches at my local Osteostrong has a physician father in a state that has NO Osteostrong franchises. I asked him if his father was supportive of the concept. He said "YES! My dad thinks it's really valid and he'd recommend it to his patients if there was a nearby facility." I suggested he talk to his dad about opening the first franchise in his state. He could hire qualified coaches to operate it and still be full time physician. He thought that was a great idea and said he'd talk to him about it. But he also gave me the contact info for a doctor in Boulder who IS referring some patients to Osteostrong. I've also read through some osteostrong blogs and others have mentioned that they were referred by their doctors.

The big issue for "evidence" is that it takes a lot of time and money to get a scientific study underway. But there HAVE been some studies. FOR ME...I really am SO anti prescription drugs (given the VAST list of "possible side effects" from basically ALL of them!) I will definitely go the distance with this. I do feel improved strength and balance and a diminshed level of pain in my lower back and glutes. Some days I don't even notice or register any pain. In fact I've been in a pain free state for a couple of weeks straight!

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@rubyz

Appreciate your thorough and thoughtful reply. Unfortunately, my provider is not supporting it. I'm not a fan of drugs either but don't want to risk fracturing. My osteoporosis is in the severe range. Money is not an issue.. but I just wish there were more evidence that it was helpful.

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More and more doctors are recommending it these days.

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@rubyz

Why are there so few actual reports of benefits from Osteostrong, even some showing worsening bone density and occasional fracturing while using the equipment? Most everything to date seems anecdotal and there is no way to tell which people who reported benefit used Osteostrong alone or with medication, supplements, etc. Without studies or actual evidence, doctors are not going to recommend or stand behind it. The cost for me would be 2,400 annually for a 10 minute once a week use of the equipment. If it were beneficial, I'd be all in. Don't get me wrong, I am NOT a fan of the current pharmaceutical offerings but for those of us with really high fracture risk, there doesn't seem to be much of a choice. You may be younger and have been T scores than some of us.. but I don't know.

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Hi @rubyz, Why don't you check out 12 Poses vs Osteoporosis at http://www.sciataca.org? Dr. Loren Fishman has had success improving bone density with 12 Yoga poses that are safe for osteoporosis. There is a video online with the standard and modified poses for osteoporosis and osteopenia. Algaecal posted videos of the three versions of the 12 poses separately. This can be found athttps://blog.algaecal.com/yoga-for-osteoporosis/
There is also a published paper "Twelve -Minute Daily Yoga Regimen Reverses Osteoporotic Bone Loss" in Topics in Geriatric Rehabilitation 2016 Volume 32, Number 2 81-87 which you can google. An expanded clinical trial is currently underway and there are some openings. The details are at http://www.sciataca.org.
I just stumbled across Dr. Fishman's regimen while researching something else, but I've been doing the yoga poses for about a month. working my way up from the osteoporosis version to the Prevention, which I do with some modifications. It was difficult at first, but I'm getting better and steadier at it. For me, it's a nice break from strength training with free weights.
If you want to work with free weights, Margaret Martin, MelioGuide is very good. If you subcribe, she will email you different workouts.

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I'm posting this here because I don't know where else it fits and we've been discussing Echolight and newer, more data-rich diagnostic protocols to help monitor bone health and target treatment. (I'm pretty sure that some reliable genetics assay is just around the corner...or hope so.)

PS Women account for about 65% of osteoporosis cases in the U.S. You all might consider pestering loved males to get tested for bone health. A golfer friend's osteoporosis was identified after a lower-back injury when it was already advanced osteoporosis. He has excellent doctors and a 'concierge' PCP and is legitimately peeved that no one ever monitored his bone health...
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FDA clear artificial intelligence software measuring BMD, fractures

The FDA has given 510(k) clearance for artificial intelligence software developed to support providers in the evaluation and assessment of musculoskeletal disease for older adults, according to an industry press release.

The HealthOST Device (Nanox Imaging Ltd.) provides a qualitative and quantitative analysis of the spine from CT imaging. The software’s analysis includes labeling of T1-L4 vertebrae, measurement of height loss in each vertebra, and measurement of mean Hounsfield Units in volume of interest within vertebra. The software automatically identifies findings suggestive of compression fractures and low bone mineral density, allowing providers to treat people with osteoporosis.

https://www.healio.com/news/endocrinology/20220504/fda-clear-artificial-intelligence-software-measuring-bmd-fractures
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@rubyz

Why are there so few actual reports of benefits from Osteostrong, even some showing worsening bone density and occasional fracturing while using the equipment? Most everything to date seems anecdotal and there is no way to tell which people who reported benefit used Osteostrong alone or with medication, supplements, etc. Without studies or actual evidence, doctors are not going to recommend or stand behind it. The cost for me would be 2,400 annually for a 10 minute once a week use of the equipment. If it were beneficial, I'd be all in. Don't get me wrong, I am NOT a fan of the current pharmaceutical offerings but for those of us with really high fracture risk, there doesn't seem to be much of a choice. You may be younger and have been T scores than some of us.. but I don't know.

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I'm with you on being data-driven. I read multiple peer-reviewed studies on pretty much any pharmaceutical before I take it.

Several years ago, there was a hot, new trendy way to treat herniated discs. I had four of them and three orthopedic surgeons recommending the new trendy cure.

I got a second opinion (mine! 😏) after reading the published studies and thinking that the protocol was fraught with an array of possible unintended consequences. I declined it, took several months helping my back heal and, a decade later, noticed the class action lawsuits representing people badly damaged by the trendy cure. Some in permanent intractable pain.

If some protocol, drug or procedure doesn't have rigorous testing and peer-reviewed longitudinal studies proving results and listing possible side effects, I pass on it. Especially if there's any chance that it could leave me worse off. I think of all of those people who agreed to that non-surgical back protocol who wish they'd waited until it had been unconditionally proven and am thankful for my own skepticism.

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@mariegroh

Actually lots of doctors recommend it. And It's always your choice to take prescription drugs with known (serious) side effects OR try other alternative treatments. I know that I have not had any fractures and I've had 10 sessions so far..I see my strength increasing on each machine. And my balance has improved especially on the vibration plate. If the money is an issue and you also don't think it will work, it's obviously not for you. I can't believe that you would pay NOTHING for a drug..so yes $2400 MINUS what you'd pay for medical treatments if you choose to forego them as I have. I'm going to be 73 in October. As I've said, my osteoporosis is in the moderate range per doctor BASED ON THE LAST DEXA SCAN which I now know can be as inaccurate as 15-20%. I JUST know that I'm not doing RECLAST which has been linked to multiple deaths as well as KIDNEY FAILURE. And/or any of the other biphosphonates which have been linked to MANY MANY MANY spontaneous femur fractures (HORRIFICALLY painful from what I've read) and/or jaw bone weakness and breaks.

Jump to this post

I hope that people don't feel that they face a decision between pharmaceuticals and Osteostrong. I'm glad that you find it helpful and if the company does have legitimate third-party peer-reviewed long-term testing proving, incontrovertibly, that it can reverse osteoporosis, without any risk, it will have no shortage of people rushing to join. Until that time, it's unproven so people will have to be their own 'experiments' in a sense. I hope for any advance in treatment that can help spare people osteoporosis and its many risks so hope the company invests in the research and makes it public for scrutiny.

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