1. < Bones, Joints & Muscles

Erosive Osteoarthritis

Posted by anniebrook @anniebrook, Feb 12, 2021

I have been trying to get answers for many years to find out why my OA in my hands is so painful and debilitating. It doesn't look as bad to the eye as many other people I have met that also have OA but have huge joint nodes but say it's not too painful. I had the traditional basal thumb surgery on left and right hands,left went well 10yrs ago but right which I had one yr later has never been pain free.. About 6 mths ago the pain in the back of my right wrist became so much worse at the same time a large lump appeared.I thought this was probably a Ganglion then a few weeks later a softer round lump appeared on the dip joint on the inside of my right little finger which as made the joint very swollen. Eventually got Xrays of both hands which have now been diagnosed as Erosive Osteoarthritis which I have never heard of. Prognosis doesn't look good with this type of OA. Has anyone else been diagnosed with this and do I ask to be referred to a Rheumatologist ? How do I deal with this ? Is there any meds I can take for pain and to slow down the progression ? Thank you

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windyshores | @windyshores | Dec 27, 2021

I was on higher dose Plaquenil (hydroxychloroquine) for many years until it affected my eyes. I have recently read it can lengthen the QT interval for the heart, and since another drug does that for me now, I would avoid it. Otherwise, at a low dose, it is a pretty benign medication with relatively few side effects.

REPLY
ess77 - Elizabeth | @ess77 | Dec 31, 2021
In reply to @sueinmn "Cast and sling for 2 weeks, then full forearm brace and sling for 2 more, then..." + (show)
@sueinmn

Cast and sling for 2 weeks, then full forearm brace and sling for 2 more, then remove sling but keep brace 2 more weeks, then 6 weeks progressive therapy, and smaller splints.
I went to therapy once a week for measurements and new exercises, did it 3x a day at home.
1st 6 weeks one or two pound lift limit, then 8 pounds for 6 more weeks, now as tolerated.
Pain was minimal as long as I kept arm elevated, iced at least 4 hours a day (almost 24 hours first 4 days) and alternated ibuprofen and Tylenol. I had lots of prepared, one-handed food in the freezer for the first 2 weeks - burritos, potties, leftover stews, etc.
Recovery was maybe 3 months, by then I could garden, paint, sew.
Sue

Jump to this post

@sueinmn, and all...that was a tough recovery, sounds like, but you got really good results. I wish I'd had your doctor when I was deteriorating and losing the use of my thumbs/hands. I can type still, some days easier than others, but man oh man if I use my hands in a different way or too much or squeeze or whatever, I pay for several days in pain. Right now the wrists are waking me up at night. The 1:1 MM lotion helps for a while. Now, my feet. especially the right foot, are hurting much more. Hurts to walk, sit, aching and pain.

Have you taken glucosamine/chondroitin, sp?, to help replace or renew or whatever the joints? It helped my dog before her death, a lot. I took it years ago but not recently as I'm working to be very careful with supplements. Wonder if I should add them again. Also, did you ever take Plaquenil? Since I have Sarcoid and Vasculitis-autoimmune diseases, wonder if it would be helpful for me. Do you have any info on that drug for this? I'm ckg out the online info re side effects and such, but you and @johnbishop are my go-to folks about this.
Thanks in advance for whatever you can share.
Blessings, Sue and Happy New Year! elizabeth

REPLY
2 replies
Mentor
John, Volunteer Mentor | @johnbishop | Dec 31, 2021
In reply to @ess77 "@sueinmn, and all...that was a tough recovery, sounds like, but you got really good results. I..." + (show)
@ess77

@sueinmn, and all...that was a tough recovery, sounds like, but you got really good results. I wish I'd had your doctor when I was deteriorating and losing the use of my thumbs/hands. I can type still, some days easier than others, but man oh man if I use my hands in a different way or too much or squeeze or whatever, I pay for several days in pain. Right now the wrists are waking me up at night. The 1:1 MM lotion helps for a while. Now, my feet. especially the right foot, are hurting much more. Hurts to walk, sit, aching and pain.

Have you taken glucosamine/chondroitin, sp?, to help replace or renew or whatever the joints? It helped my dog before her death, a lot. I took it years ago but not recently as I'm working to be very careful with supplements. Wonder if I should add them again. Also, did you ever take Plaquenil? Since I have Sarcoid and Vasculitis-autoimmune diseases, wonder if it would be helpful for me. Do you have any info on that drug for this? I'm ckg out the online info re side effects and such, but you and @johnbishop are my go-to folks about this.
Thanks in advance for whatever you can share.
Blessings, Sue and Happy New Year! elizabeth

Jump to this post

Hi Elizabeth @ess77, I don't have much knowledge on Plaquenil but did find two articles that mention it's use in treating the conditions.

"As a treatment for sarcoidosis, the antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine (Plaquenil®) is most ... Severe vasculitis can be associated with exudates that." -- SARCOIDOSIS TREATMENT GUIDELINES: https://www.stopsarcoidosis.org/wp-content/uploads/FSR-Physicians-Protocol1-1.pdf

"Antimalarials - Chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine have been frequently used in treatment of sarcoidosis based on early randomized trials that showed a long-term benefit with chloroquine (56). However, based on the better safety profile, hydroxychloroquine is most often preferred. The mechanisms of action for hydroxychloroquine are varied; it can interfere with antigen presentation, prevent T cell activation, inhibit toll-like receptor signaling, and reduce inflammatory cytokines by T cells and B cells (57). Hydroxychloroquine has been particularly useful in cutaneous disease, hypercalcemia, and in some cases of neurosarcoidosis (58–60). Although gastrointestinal side effects are commonly reported with use of hydroxychloroquine, they are generally mild and well-tolerated (61)." -- Treatment of Sarcoidosis: A Multidisciplinary Approach: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2020.545413/full

REPLY
1 reply
ess77 - Elizabeth | @ess77 | Dec 31, 2021
In reply to @johnbishop "Hi Elizabeth @ess77, I don't have much knowledge on Plaquenil but did find two articles that..." + (show)
@johnbishop

Hi Elizabeth @ess77, I don't have much knowledge on Plaquenil but did find two articles that mention it's use in treating the conditions.

"As a treatment for sarcoidosis, the antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine (Plaquenil®) is most ... Severe vasculitis can be associated with exudates that." -- SARCOIDOSIS TREATMENT GUIDELINES: https://www.stopsarcoidosis.org/wp-content/uploads/FSR-Physicians-Protocol1-1.pdf

"Antimalarials - Chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine have been frequently used in treatment of sarcoidosis based on early randomized trials that showed a long-term benefit with chloroquine (56). However, based on the better safety profile, hydroxychloroquine is most often preferred. The mechanisms of action for hydroxychloroquine are varied; it can interfere with antigen presentation, prevent T cell activation, inhibit toll-like receptor signaling, and reduce inflammatory cytokines by T cells and B cells (57). Hydroxychloroquine has been particularly useful in cutaneous disease, hypercalcemia, and in some cases of neurosarcoidosis (58–60). Although gastrointestinal side effects are commonly reported with use of hydroxychloroquine, they are generally mild and well-tolerated (61)." -- Treatment of Sarcoidosis: A Multidisciplinary Approach: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2020.545413/full

Jump to this post

@johnbishop, Wow, John, a plethora of wonderful information. you've helped me ins so many different ways and this is a great help. I'm digging into research as this may be something to finally give me some help. Since I have digestive issues and heart issues as well, I need to ck and think clearly. I've had a gut feeling about this drug for a couple of years after first hearing about it and thought from the first it might help me with some of the things I have. So, thanks for your research and info. You are the greatest!
Any ideas about boron?
Blessings. elizabeth

REPLY
1 reply
Mentor
John, Volunteer Mentor | @johnbishop | Jan 1, 2022
In reply to @ess77 "@johnbishop, Wow, John, a plethora of wonderful information. you've helped me ins so many different ways..." + (show)
@ess77

@johnbishop, Wow, John, a plethora of wonderful information. you've helped me ins so many different ways and this is a great help. I'm digging into research as this may be something to finally give me some help. Since I have digestive issues and heart issues as well, I need to ck and think clearly. I've had a gut feeling about this drug for a couple of years after first hearing about it and thought from the first it might help me with some of the things I have. So, thanks for your research and info. You are the greatest!
Any ideas about boron?
Blessings. elizabeth

Jump to this post

Good morning Elizabeth, Saw your message this morning and remembered a great post by @colleenyoung on boron here - https://connect.mayoclinic.org/comment/334944/

Happy New Year! Hope you have happy and healthier 2022.

REPLY
Mentor
Sue, Volunteer Mentor | @sueinmn | Jan 1, 2022
In reply to @ess77 "@sueinmn, and all...that was a tough recovery, sounds like, but you got really good results. I..." + (show)
@ess77

@sueinmn, and all...that was a tough recovery, sounds like, but you got really good results. I wish I'd had your doctor when I was deteriorating and losing the use of my thumbs/hands. I can type still, some days easier than others, but man oh man if I use my hands in a different way or too much or squeeze or whatever, I pay for several days in pain. Right now the wrists are waking me up at night. The 1:1 MM lotion helps for a while. Now, my feet. especially the right foot, are hurting much more. Hurts to walk, sit, aching and pain.

Have you taken glucosamine/chondroitin, sp?, to help replace or renew or whatever the joints? It helped my dog before her death, a lot. I took it years ago but not recently as I'm working to be very careful with supplements. Wonder if I should add them again. Also, did you ever take Plaquenil? Since I have Sarcoid and Vasculitis-autoimmune diseases, wonder if it would be helpful for me. Do you have any info on that drug for this? I'm ckg out the online info re side effects and such, but you and @johnbishop are my go-to folks about this.
Thanks in advance for whatever you can share.
Blessings, Sue and Happy New Year! elizabeth

Jump to this post

Elizabeth - I find relief from my thumb and wrist pain from wearing adjustable, supportive neoprene braces for many activities, and for sleeping. They need not be overly tight, just enough to offer gentle support. The pictures below are 2 types I use - I find the Futuro one especially easy to wear, but the other one also offers a bit of warmth for colder weather.

As for pain relief, I find that a pain rub containing an NSAID, like Voltaren Gel to work well. Plaquinel does work for some as John posted, but my own body had too many quinolones over the years and cannot tolerate, so I don't know if it helps hand pain. Good luck finding a path to relief.
Sue
REPLY
2 replies
ess77 - Elizabeth | @ess77 | Jan 1, 2022
In reply to @sueinmn "Elizabeth - I find relief from my thumb and wrist pain from wearing adjustable, supportive neoprene..." + (show)
@sueinmn

Elizabeth - I find relief from my thumb and wrist pain from wearing adjustable, supportive neoprene braces for many activities, and for sleeping. They need not be overly tight, just enough to offer gentle support. The pictures below are 2 types I use - I find the Futuro one especially easy to wear, but the other one also offers a bit of warmth for colder weather.

As for pain relief, I find that a pain rub containing an NSAID, like Voltaren Gel to work well. Plaquinel does work for some as John posted, but my own body had too many quinolones over the years and cannot tolerate, so I don't know if it helps hand pain. Good luck finding a path to relief.
Sue

Jump to this post

@johnbishop, @sueinmn, and all...you are both wonderful. Thanks, John for the link to @colleenyoung and Sue, I love your braces. I have them both! They get me through, help with driving a lot, sometimes I wear them both or one on my right hand in my sleep. They help me greatly. I used to use Voltaren often and will start again tonight. Seems at times I need a reminder of what helps. I don't know how you make it through the harsh winter months. Cold is such an enemy of my hands and joints and I suppose all of me. I can't touch ice with my fingers. It is so painful and burns. I can only imagine what snow and ice would do to me.

I'm off to bed after slathering on some Voltaren and putting on my braces. In particular, the one on the right in your picture, as it has strong thumb support that helps my wrist as well. Right now, the thumbs are acting up and my wrists are much worse and painful. My right wrist and up the arm has something going on with sharp, electric pain. May be from my right shoulder, nerve, not sure, but may have to get it ck'd. don't want to...we'll see.

Goodnight, special folks. Blessings and be well. elizabeth

REPLY
1 reply
parrotqueen | @parrotqueen | Jan 10, 2022
In reply to @ga29 "Thanks for your reply! I also ordered boron and just got it three days ago. I..." + (show)
@ga29

Thanks for your reply! I also ordered boron and just got it three days ago. I took 3 mg capsule for breakfast and dinner. Today’s the third day, I’ve taken two so far. Have not noticed any difference yet but it’s early days!

Jump to this post

I take 12 mg every meal and before bed. Take what you need. If you have pain - take more. Also, I use Devil's claw and boswellia serrata. But boron is the best. The pain is horrible if you don't take it.

REPLY
1 reply
parrotqueen | @parrotqueen | Jan 10, 2022
In reply to @sueinmn "Elizabeth - I find relief from my thumb and wrist pain from wearing adjustable, supportive neoprene..." + (show)
@sueinmn

Elizabeth - I find relief from my thumb and wrist pain from wearing adjustable, supportive neoprene braces for many activities, and for sleeping. They need not be overly tight, just enough to offer gentle support. The pictures below are 2 types I use - I find the Futuro one especially easy to wear, but the other one also offers a bit of warmth for colder weather.

As for pain relief, I find that a pain rub containing an NSAID, like Voltaren Gel to work well. Plaquinel does work for some as John posted, but my own body had too many quinolones over the years and cannot tolerate, so I don't know if it helps hand pain. Good luck finding a path to relief.
Sue

Jump to this post

Yeah my arthritis got a little worse and braces and voltaren gel were not enough. Boron was the answer for me. I took a quinolone and got tendinitis in both of my Achilles tendons and I cannot get rid of it for the rest of my life!!! I can't believe that but it is true - it happened in 2021. Now I am stuck with it. Most of the time I can bear it - but sometimes I cannot walk at all for two weeks. I cannot recommend anybody take those drugs. Along with boron, I take Devil's Claw and boswellia serrata. I just don't need anything else - no braces and no gel (be careful with that gel - if your dog or cats licks it off of you, they can wind up in the vet's office fighting for their life!). I DO use that gel now and again for aches and pains, but I don't need it if I take boron.

REPLY
parrotqueen | @parrotqueen | Jan 10, 2022
In reply to @ess77 "@johnbishop, @sueinmn, and all...you are both wonderful. Thanks, John for the link to @colleenyoung and Sue,..." + (show)
@ess77

@johnbishop, @sueinmn, and all...you are both wonderful. Thanks, John for the link to @colleenyoung and Sue, I love your braces. I have them both! They get me through, help with driving a lot, sometimes I wear them both or one on my right hand in my sleep. They help me greatly. I used to use Voltaren often and will start again tonight. Seems at times I need a reminder of what helps. I don't know how you make it through the harsh winter months. Cold is such an enemy of my hands and joints and I suppose all of me. I can't touch ice with my fingers. It is so painful and burns. I can only imagine what snow and ice would do to me.

I'm off to bed after slathering on some Voltaren and putting on my braces. In particular, the one on the right in your picture, as it has strong thumb support that helps my wrist as well. Right now, the thumbs are acting up and my wrists are much worse and painful. My right wrist and up the arm has something going on with sharp, electric pain. May be from my right shoulder, nerve, not sure, but may have to get it ck'd. don't want to...we'll see.

Goodnight, special folks. Blessings and be well. elizabeth

Jump to this post

I notice you wrote in January. I think the cold makes the arthritis pain so much worse. My hand surgeon said it is not good to wear the braces every night - so I chose to take 12 mg of boron four times a day and now I have no pain, YAY!

I think I have PTSD from the smell of the voltaren gel! hahahaha

Wishing everyone of you will find some relief.

REPLY
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