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Other causes of failed PEth test for alcohol abuse?

Posted by gjones1956 @gjones1956, Nov 14, 2017

My daughter undergoes periodic peth testing for alchohol abuse. She fails regularly, although swears she drinks NOTHING. We have reason to believe she is telling the truth. Assuming she is indeed not drinking, is there a physical condition or ailment that might produce positive peth tests? She is 29, has enlarged lymph nodes, some kind of mysterious condition that gives her severe hives, etc. We are wondering if some type of autoinflammation or autoimmune condition might explain elevated levels. Our daughter is FINALLY discussing this with her regular doctor but if it is some unusual condition a specialist will be needed. The reason the peth test is required is due to a nasty custody dispute with lots of allegations of misconduct. I just want to know if there is ANYTHING other than alchohol consumption that can lead to positive test results. Any thoughts or knowledge of cases? Thanks for reading.

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mama619 | @mama619 | Nov 3, 2021
In reply to @mama619 "Yes, got the results yesterday and had a hard attack. I've seen that level listed as,..." + (show)
@mama619

Yes, got the results yesterday and had a hard attack. I've seen that level listed as, occasional, social and another that states it indicates 2 binges a day. I'm definitely going to get another one at a different lab.

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Heart* thanks auto correct

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bboseski12 | @bboseski12 | Nov 3, 2021
In reply to @mama619 "I am so sorry to hear that. I'm shocked at how corrupt our system is. Abstinence..." + (show)
@mama619

I am so sorry to hear that. I'm shocked at how corrupt our system is. Abstinence is definitely my route going forward. I'm angry at myself for the splurge. This has been ongoing for 6 months. Eventually it's reached a point where it just seems like a control tactic. After the evaluation and multiple negative tests, I didn't think it would matter. Of course that next Monday I was asked to take the PEth. Thanks for the advice! Hang in there

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Oh mama it’s all about the control for them. I had all the evaluations as well no problems. You can’t beat yourself up, just have to be strong. If you need some advice on how I handled by case which of course is never ending message me. As long as you remain abstinent 4-5 weeks prior to PETH testing you should be ok. Best of luck!

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toolsd | @toolsd | Nov 3, 2021

Well... it’s a single edged sword. These tests can incriminate, but not exonerate. Like the rest of it, doesn’t make sense but that is the prevailing attitude.

Secondly, I know people who did that who got another false positive that was used to hang them... it’s a mess.

A very timely second PETH is the most forensically sensible. Still, a hair etg might be useful.

Even more mind boggling is to fact a “confirmatory” retest of original has a 4 ng/ml threshold! None of this is “regulatory”, it’s just the $&@& show they’ve developed. NONE of it is regulated, vetted, fda approved, dot approved or confirms to ANY medical, forensic or clinical standards.

In fact they claim it’s “forensic”, so CLIA doesn’t apply. But when it’s used to force “rehab”, it’s suddenly clinical. Circuitous and SERIOUSLY flawed logic. Furthermore, they come FAR from legit forensic in that their suppliers of test standards aren’t tracked, nothing.

Google “motherisk scandal” and note the similarities. It’s even eerily similar to Theranos. Unfortunately rich and famous people aren’t affected, so no one cares.

This scam is applied under the guise of “safety”, which is scariest of all. Has ANYONE considered the rate of false negatives? You guessed it, that hasn’t been studied either.

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melanie6598 | @melanie6598 | Nov 3, 2021

we have gone through this with PETH test. It is amazing something as small as red wine vinagrette can cause a false positive. In addition, nyquil/dayquil, some sugar substitutes and sugar alcohols. Some immune-suppre. meds and if you are in acute liver failure, it can also have a false positive. We are six months out from my husband's liver transplant. He had not had anything for over 3 years that had alcohol in it and before the transplant, he had a positive PETH test that almost caused him to lose his life. Change labs immediately or at least have two different places. Since that time, the doctor that refused to accept a false positive could be a possibility has had to "eat crow" and retire immediately. PETH tests can be used as one means of testing purposes, but it should NEVER EVER be used as a confirmatory test.

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jetlag | @jetlag | Nov 4, 2021
In reply to @toolsd "HI folks! A little late to this party, my false positive came a year ago may...." + (show)
@toolsd

HI folks!

A little late to this party, my false positive came a year ago may. Like so many here, backed up with numerous time appropriate follow on PeTH and etg hair tests that are all negative. I have no idea even of a source of incidental exposure.

I was in an abstinence program, another story fraught with fraud waste and abuse, so was offered relapse treatment, 100 days inpatient, but refused because I did not relapse, and was fired from a major airline. Awaiting arbitration, as that's the only due process allowed a unionized employee. As for a union helping, well, think again. They are not and recommended I go to the relapse treatment. And even have some pilots on a contract that removes their right to grieve! So they get fired with NO recourse.

Bad PeTH test was collected by anylab in Atlanta, processed by USDTL. A follow on test from them was negative, as was a follow on processed on whole blood from lab Corp I think.

As for post collection synthesis, absolutely possible. The manufacturer of the blood spot cards specifically states waiting a minimum of two hours before the specimen is sealed in a plastic bag. If your blood ferments on that card, and there's PLD in that blood spot, then PeTH is gonna be formed. It's not called a DRIED blood spot for nothing.

I have a lawyer and 4 forensic toxicologists working on the matter, what better way to spend my 401k....

There are many other pilots in my position, but none have grieved it that I know of.

At the end of my arbitration I'm willing to share any and all of the forensic reports I collect. Surely they can help someone.

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Hey there. Im in the same boat you. 11 negatives, 1 positive (21ng) and no longer eligible for a first class. Would love to hear how far along in your litigation you are, as i am considering the same.

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jetlag | @jetlag | Nov 4, 2021
In reply to @spiffy82 "@toolsd @flyboybray In the same position as you two possibly. Been getting PEth(finger prick) tests for..." + (show)
@spiffy82

@toolsd @flyboybray
In the same position as you two possibly. Been getting PEth(finger prick) tests for over 4 years and just had my first positive ever. I tested at 24ng/mL according to the paperwork from USDTL. I was in complete shock! Within the same day of being notified I went and got tested again: PEth(finger prick) test, Urine ETG and Hair ETG. All three test came back negative. I'm very mindful and experienced, as a donor, in how the test collection is administered, 4+ years of doing this test!

The only thing that has changed for this test was got tested within 2 hours of finishing a trip. I have never gotten tested, by PEth, same day as working. I have seen all the same articles questioning validity of the PEth test vs contamintaion from Ethly Glychol products ie; Hand Sanitizers, disinfectant wipes, etc. I'm being told its impossible to test at a level of 24ng/mL without ingesting it. Times have changed in the past few months with COVID-19. I'm instructed by my employer to use these products (Flight Deck Wipes & Sani-Comm) to clean are workstations. Furthermore when positioning around the system your given Purell Wipes and one time use Purell gel packs. Every public place I go into has Hand Sanitizer. Again instructed to use these from my Employer who gets the imformation and recommendations from the FAA, who cites the CDC in the latest SAFO 20003 publication.

I've been very mindful of what I expose myself to, but at the same time its my responsibility to comply with procedures and guidelines from my employer to protect myself, crew and customers. I know this is going to be an uphill battle. Let me know if either of you need more information.

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@toolsd @flyboybray @toolsd

Im sending you guys a PM - Lost my first class in 2014 after 11 negatives, 1 positive (21ng). Please, lets get in touch!

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jetlag | @jetlag | Nov 4, 2021
In reply to @clearofclouds1234 "Another Pilot here in a similar situation. Have not had a sip of alcohol in close..." + (show)
@clearofclouds1234

Another Pilot here in a similar situation. Have not had a sip of alcohol in close to three years and had a positive (274ng/ml!) come back from a finger prick test. Have been under a monitoring program for over two years now and never had a positive. Went and took another blood test (intravenous) 16 days later and it came back negative. Also had a nail-ETG test done 28 days later and it came back negative. Something is wrong, lost my medical, its like a bad dream that wont stop.

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@toolsd @clearofclouds1234 we need a whole separate thread on this. Lost my first class in 2014. 11 negatives, one positive (21ng). HIMS AME recommended 30 days inpatient which myself and those around me thought was absurd. I moved on from flying but havent been able to move past it as you can tell...

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1 reply
toolsd | @toolsd | Nov 4, 2021

I know there’s LOTS of these old cases out there. Past three years ago was the dark ages for this crap. We’re all in touch now so that’s good.

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melanie6598 | @melanie6598 | Nov 5, 2021

Anything you guys need. I will be there@toolsd. On another note, I am a professional witness with work and public speaker, so I can articulate the unfairness you guys have been dealing with. Keep me updated!

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