1. < MAC & Bronchiectasis

Reducing Exposure to Nontuberculous Mycobacteria (NTM)

Posted by Armando @bolso1, Sep 16, 2021

Please see the attached document prepared by Dr. Joseph O. Falkinham, III, a world authority on the management of NTM dispersion.

Shared files

Reducing Exposure to Nontuberculous Mycobacteria (Reducing-Exposure-to-Nontuberculous-Mycobacteria.pdf)

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the MAC & Bronchiectasis Support Group.

lora jo | @ljfoo | Oct 6, 2021
In reply to @sueinmn "But why 10 minutes? Even in their literature, I can't find any evidence that 10 minutes..." + (show)
@sueinmn

But why 10 minutes? Even in their literature, I can't find any evidence that 10 minutes is required to kill NTM.
My reason for looking at this issue is that a number of people would like to use electric kettles to boil their water, but these shut off, or at least reduce the heat, after the water boils. Is that adequate to kill NTM and make the water safe?
Sue

Jump to this post

Armando asked Dr. Falkinham if electric kettles that automatically shut off will kill NTM. His reply was once the electric kettle reaches a roiling boil, that is sufficient. I I'm working on getting a webinar with Falkinham so we can ask him directly.

REPLY
heathert | @heathert | Oct 6, 2021

@ljfoo wow that would make life so much easier! thank you

REPLY
pop55 | @pop55 | Oct 7, 2021
In reply to @sueinmn "But why 10 minutes? Even in their literature, I can't find any evidence that 10 minutes..." + (show)
@sueinmn

But why 10 minutes? Even in their literature, I can't find any evidence that 10 minutes is required to kill NTM.
My reason for looking at this issue is that a number of people would like to use electric kettles to boil their water, but these shut off, or at least reduce the heat, after the water boils. Is that adequate to kill NTM and make the water safe?
Sue

Jump to this post

I am looking to see if I can find anything on the 10 minutes. It would be so easy if we could just use a kettle.

REPLY
1 reply
rits | @rits | Oct 7, 2021
In reply to @pop55 "I am looking to see if I can find anything on the 10 minutes. It would..." + (show)
@pop55

I am looking to see if I can find anything on the 10 minutes. It would be so easy if we could just use a kettle.

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I may have missed something. Why can't we just use a regular tea pot on the stove? The whistling kind. If we lift the pouring, whistling part, it will just continue to boil the water quietly for however long we decide it needs to boiled, whether it's no time once it whistles or 5 minutes or ten.

REPLY
valerie613 | @valerie613 | Oct 7, 2021
In reply to @sueinmn "But why 10 minutes? Even in their literature, I can't find any evidence that 10 minutes..." + (show)
@sueinmn

But why 10 minutes? Even in their literature, I can't find any evidence that 10 minutes is required to kill NTM.
My reason for looking at this issue is that a number of people would like to use electric kettles to boil their water, but these shut off, or at least reduce the heat, after the water boils. Is that adequate to kill NTM and make the water safe?
Sue

Jump to this post

Please see the article post by Armando, Sept. 16th, by Dr. Joseph Falkinham. He talks about an electric kettle being better at killing NTM than boiling water in a pot. "Reducing Exposure to Nontuberculolus Mycobacteria. I emailed Dr. Falkinham and he said to be sure the water boils for at least 10 minutes to kill NTM.

REPLY
1 reply
Mentor
Sue, Volunteer Mentor | @sueinmn | Oct 7, 2021
In reply to @valerie613 "Please see the article post by Armando, Sept. 16th, by Dr. Joseph Falkinham. He talks about..." + (show)
@valerie613

Please see the article post by Armando, Sept. 16th, by Dr. Joseph Falkinham. He talks about an electric kettle being better at killing NTM than boiling water in a pot. "Reducing Exposure to Nontuberculolus Mycobacteria. I emailed Dr. Falkinham and he said to be sure the water boils for at least 10 minutes to kill NTM.

Jump to this post

I just reread the article, and see the recommendation. but there is no electric kettle that boils for 10 minutes.
However, based on his reference to killing e. coli, the 2021 CDC guidelines instruct to boil for 1 minute to kill it.(https://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/drinking/travel/backcountry_water_treatment.html)
And I have searched and searched for any study or test that requires 10 minutes of boiling...

I await a webinar with Dr Falkinham to address this issue.
Sue

REPLY
1 reply
Armando | @bolso1 | Oct 7, 2021
In reply to @sueinmn "I just reread the article, and see the recommendation. but there is no electric kettle that..." + (show)
@sueinmn

I just reread the article, and see the recommendation. but there is no electric kettle that boils for 10 minutes.
However, based on his reference to killing e. coli, the 2021 CDC guidelines instruct to boil for 1 minute to kill it.(https://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/drinking/travel/backcountry_water_treatment.html)
And I have searched and searched for any study or test that requires 10 minutes of boiling...

I await a webinar with Dr Falkinham to address this issue.
Sue

Jump to this post

Sue,
About the "time" issue when boiling water:

In Table 7.8 (attached) of the WHO's "Guidelines for drinking-water quality - 4 ed.", (https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/9789241548151), it is indicated that "spores are more resistant to thermal inactivation than are vegetative cells; treatment to reduce spores by boiling must ensure sufficient temperature and time."
Do NTM have spores? Yes according to the attached reference.
So, the 10-min recommendation might aim to provide a general "rule of thumb" safety margin.

Also, there is research that shows that Mycobacterium sensitivity to heat varies with the phase of growth: when in a phase that can lead to fast growth, Mycobacterium is more sensitive than when in a phase close to a stationary state (slow growth rate) (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2705590/pdf/zpq10781.pdf).

Armando
Shared files

Guidelines for drinking-water quality, 4th edition (Guidelines-for-drinking-water-quality-4th-edition.pdf_extract.pdf)

REPLY
2 replies
Mentor
Sue, Volunteer Mentor | @sueinmn | Oct 7, 2021
In reply to @bolso1 "Sue, About the "time" issue when boiling water: In Table 7.8 (attached) of the WHO's "Guidelines..." + (show)
@bolso1

Sue,
About the "time" issue when boiling water:

In Table 7.8 (attached) of the WHO's "Guidelines for drinking-water quality - 4 ed.", (https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/9789241548151), it is indicated that "spores are more resistant to thermal inactivation than are vegetative cells; treatment to reduce spores by boiling must ensure sufficient temperature and time."
Do NTM have spores? Yes according to the attached reference.
So, the 10-min recommendation might aim to provide a general "rule of thumb" safety margin.

Also, there is research that shows that Mycobacterium sensitivity to heat varies with the phase of growth: when in a phase that can lead to fast growth, Mycobacterium is more sensitive than when in a phase close to a stationary state (slow growth rate) (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2705590/pdf/zpq10781.pdf).

Armando

Jump to this post

Thank you. This is exactly the kind of info I was looking for. So, how does this square with using an electric kettle, where none I have seen can be set to keep boiling for 10 minutes?
Sue

REPLY
rits | @rits | Oct 8, 2021
In reply to @bolso1 "Sue, About the "time" issue when boiling water: In Table 7.8 (attached) of the WHO's "Guidelines..." + (show)
@bolso1

Sue,
About the "time" issue when boiling water:

In Table 7.8 (attached) of the WHO's "Guidelines for drinking-water quality - 4 ed.", (https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/9789241548151), it is indicated that "spores are more resistant to thermal inactivation than are vegetative cells; treatment to reduce spores by boiling must ensure sufficient temperature and time."
Do NTM have spores? Yes according to the attached reference.
So, the 10-min recommendation might aim to provide a general "rule of thumb" safety margin.

Also, there is research that shows that Mycobacterium sensitivity to heat varies with the phase of growth: when in a phase that can lead to fast growth, Mycobacterium is more sensitive than when in a phase close to a stationary state (slow growth rate) (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2705590/pdf/zpq10781.pdf).

Armando

Jump to this post

I am confused with respect to why the source of the heat to boil the water matters. An electric kettle kills more pathogens than a kettle on a gas stove? Why? And what about an electric stove or a hot plate? I thought it was the boiling that killed the pathogens so why does it matter what type of heat brings it to a boil? Hopefully Dr Fallingham will answer this on the webinaire.

REPLY
1 reply
cavlover | @cavlover | Oct 8, 2021

I use a Kuhn Rikon kettle which allows me to boil for 11 minutes. I read that you should boil for 10 minutes and an additional minute for each 1000 foot above sea level. Lately I e been boiling my distilled water for my nasal rinse and using Crystal Geyser for my drinking water.

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