1. < MAC & Bronchiectasis

7% Saline Solution

Posted by thumperguy @thumperguy, Jan 7, 2020

Got a supply of 7% vials and got a real jolt in my throat when I began inhaling it. However I quickly adapted to it and was able to finish the vial. Within a few minutes I was coughing and bringing stuff up - a first. I never had a timely response to 0.9. Bottom line: I guess the 7% solution is...well the real solution. Not to be confused with the Sherlock and Sigmund thing. Forgive my corny effort at mirth. Don

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Mentor
Terri Martin, Volunteer Mentor | @windwalker | Apr 16, 2020
In reply to @anunez "Hi, I have been reading through the nebulizer posts and have learned quite a bit I..." + (show)
@anunez

Hi, I have been reading through the nebulizer posts and have learned quite a bit I did not know. I did not get any specific directions from my doctor for using the nebulizer. I read the directions from the manual. I have now been using it for a little over a month. It does help me cough up mucus. I use it two times daily. I have a blue Pari vios pro.
I am wondering what people's technique is for nebulizing. I have to start and stop over a period of 45-60 minutes so that I can cough and relieve the irritation from the salt. I am using 7% saline and am wondering if I can get away with using 3%. I have not been diagnosed with MAC. I have been diagnosed with bronchiectasis and most recently an in my right lung infection that did not resolve to antibiotics.
I think that the nebulizer has helped me feel better and I am not coughing as much between nebulizer treatments.

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@anunez Hi there! Keep on trying to use the 7% saline. It helps to kill the mac. Don't do the whole vial at once if it irritates your lungs too much. They will need to build up a tolerance for it. Nebulize as to what is slightly uncomfortable for you. The object is to irritate the lungs enough to cause you to cough up gunk.

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Mentor
Terri Martin, Volunteer Mentor | @windwalker | Apr 16, 2020
In reply to @lorifilipek "Hi Terri! Everything's fine so far. Yesterday morning watched a bobcat try to sneak up on..." + (show)
@lorifilipek

Hi Terri! Everything's fine so far. Yesterday morning watched a bobcat try to sneak up on some quail in our backyard. Our 30-yr-old clothes dryer broke a week ago, so we had a new one installed on Saturday. I wore all kinds of protective gear. The installer has 5 kids, including a newborn, and was also quite concerned, so he probably appreciated my gear. I wiped it down and didn't touch it again until today. We're testing it out as I write, and I sure hope it works. Tomorrow, we're going to Whole Foods and then Fry's early in the morning to stock up on perishables. (I hope that's the last time for a while...) I was wondering--does anyone know if the Pari compressor is helpful as a ventilator?

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@lorifilipek, I don't know how you figure a pari compressor would double as a ventilator.

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Mentor
Terri Martin, Volunteer Mentor | @windwalker | Apr 16, 2020
In reply to @kathyhg "Thanks. I used all of my 3% but this is a good idea. I’m taking a..." + (show)
@kathyhg

Thanks. I used all of my 3% but this is a good idea. I’m taking a few little breaks with the 7% because it irritates my throat and makes me cough while using it. I’ll keep doing this until I get used to it.
It makes me cough a lot more than the 3% did so I’ll be patient with this part of getting used into it.
Thanks again.

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@kathyhg, Just bear in mind, this 7% saline is supposed to irritate you into a coughing spasm. That is how it works to bring the gunk up. I am so used to 7% now that it doesn't even phase me. I wish it did!

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Mentor
Terri Martin, Volunteer Mentor | @windwalker | Apr 16, 2020
In reply to @kathyhg "I found that 7% irritated my throat/trachea so much that I coughed up a bit of..." + (show)
@kathyhg

I found that 7% irritated my throat/trachea so much that I coughed up a bit of mucousy blood for the first time since. It was pretty scary and I’m sure that can’t be good. I went back to 3%, which I have been using since September without incident.

I’ve wondered if 5% might be a good compromise? It’s even harder to find than 3% though.

Any thoughts on coughing up blood? Do you get used to the 7% over time?

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@kathyhg You do get used to the 7% over time. At least , I did. Your comment about the blood, could be taken another way; it might be that the saline is digging deeper down into the lungs where you already had a bleed going on and is bringing that up. Best to ask your dr about it. All I know is; I do fine before taking my inhaled tobramycin for 28 days; do terrible while on it, then am even better afterwards. My point is; sometimes things needs to be uncomfortable before they get better. I am no medical expert, so you should discuss this with your dr.

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lorifilipek | @lorifilipek | Apr 16, 2020
In reply to @windwalker "@lorifilipek, I don't know how you figure a pari compressor would double as a ventilator." + (show)
@windwalker

@lorifilipek, I don't know how you figure a pari compressor would double as a ventilator.

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@windwalker Hi Terri, I had no idea how a ventilator worked when I wrote that. I thought maybe it pumped air/oxygen into the lungs, like through the tube used with a nebulizer. I just read more about ventilators and they're far more complicated and more controlled than that. Personally, I don't want to be on a ventilator because of the sometimes permanent and very damaging side effects. From what I've read only a small percentage of people on ventilators with Covid-19 survive and there are have recently been questions by some doctors about whether ventilators help or harm for Covid-19. At this point, I'd rather just take my chances with IV vitamin C (started early), oxygen, and proning. See, e.g., https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/nyregion/new-york-coronavirus.html

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2 replies
nannette | @nannette | Apr 16, 2020
In reply to @lorifilipek "@windwalker Hi Terri, I had no idea how a ventilator worked when I wrote that. I..." + (show)
@lorifilipek

@windwalker Hi Terri, I had no idea how a ventilator worked when I wrote that. I thought maybe it pumped air/oxygen into the lungs, like through the tube used with a nebulizer. I just read more about ventilators and they're far more complicated and more controlled than that. Personally, I don't want to be on a ventilator because of the sometimes permanent and very damaging side effects. From what I've read only a small percentage of people on ventilators with Covid-19 survive and there are have recently been questions by some doctors about whether ventilators help or harm for Covid-19. At this point, I'd rather just take my chances with IV vitamin C (started early), oxygen, and proning. See, e.g., https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/nyregion/new-york-coronavirus.html

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@lorifilipek That was a very interesting. I had never heard of proning, but trust me, I have copied parts of that article and put them in a file in case I get this virus. Nan

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migizii | @migizii | Apr 16, 2020
In reply to @windwalker "@anunez Hi there! Keep on trying to use the 7% saline. It helps to kill the..." + (show)
@windwalker

@anunez Hi there! Keep on trying to use the 7% saline. It helps to kill the mac. Don't do the whole vial at once if it irritates your lungs too much. They will need to build up a tolerance for it. Nebulize as to what is slightly uncomfortable for you. The object is to irritate the lungs enough to cause you to cough up gunk.

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@anunez our mentor, windwalker, gave some good advice regarding the 7%saline. My pulmonologist started me on it as soon as I was diagnosed so I don’t know anything different, but gradually increasing what you can I think is a really good idea. Although each case is different, I have been fortunate in not contracting MAC/NTM yet (was diagnosed in 2017).

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Mentor
Sue, Volunteer Mentor | @sueinmn | Apr 17, 2020
In reply to @lorifilipek "@windwalker Hi Terri, I had no idea how a ventilator worked when I wrote that. I..." + (show)
@lorifilipek

@windwalker Hi Terri, I had no idea how a ventilator worked when I wrote that. I thought maybe it pumped air/oxygen into the lungs, like through the tube used with a nebulizer. I just read more about ventilators and they're far more complicated and more controlled than that. Personally, I don't want to be on a ventilator because of the sometimes permanent and very damaging side effects. From what I've read only a small percentage of people on ventilators with Covid-19 survive and there are have recently been questions by some doctors about whether ventilators help or harm for Covid-19. At this point, I'd rather just take my chances with IV vitamin C (started early), oxygen, and proning. See, e.g., https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/nyregion/new-york-coronavirus.html

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@lorifilipek Very interesting - my daughter is in a Midwestern ER, and the docs there, by their protocol, have always resisted using vents as long as possible because of all the downside issues. She said they are taking the same approach with Covid-19, but because she is in ER, not ICU, doesn't know about the "proning."

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Mentor
Terri Martin, Volunteer Mentor | @windwalker | May 29, 2020

Here is a link for those who like scientific data. This has charts about what salinity % kills various organians. It is slightly different from a previous article I had posted. This is a good one to print and give to drs who may not be familiar with saline therapy. https://www.thelancet.com/action/showPdf?pii=S0140-6736%2820%2931201-0

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2 replies
alleycatkate | @alleycatkate | May 30, 2020
In reply to @windwalker "Here is a link for those who like scientific data. This has charts about what salinity..." + (show)
@windwalker

Here is a link for those who like scientific data. This has charts about what salinity % kills various organians. It is slightly different from a previous article I had posted. This is a good one to print and give to drs who may not be familiar with saline therapy. https://www.thelancet.com/action/showPdf?pii=S0140-6736%2820%2931201-0

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@windwalker Check your link.... On pandemic, not saline.

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