1. < Osteoporosis & Bone Health

Calcium and Vitamin D for bone density

Posted by ellerbracke @ellerbracke, Oct 1, 2019

A recent bone density test came back in the low average range for my age. My OBGYN recommended calcium and vitamin D. I checked with a family member who is a pharmacist, and she says that the benefits of calcium supplements are not clear cut. Regarding vitamin D, I’m in the sunbelt, and spend at least 2 hours per day outdoors during 8 to 9 months a year (early morning, or evening, sun screen between 10 AM and 5 PM if applicable for pool, beach, for example). I’m sure many people on this forum have done their own research regarding the benefits of calcium pills, and I would love to hear what the current consensus is. I exercise regularly, so my bones get a workout from the muscles pulling on them, if that makes a difference. I think the data I was given is that statistically I have an 8% chance of a hip fracture in the next decade, based on the test results.

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parrotqueen | @parrotqueen | Oct 14, 2019

Thank you, Lioness. That is a great suggestion. Only problem is - I cannot eat sugar in any form - not even in fruit. I am allergic to sugar. So, no smoothies for me, sadly. I used to live on smoothies back in the 80s. People thought I was crazy.

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1 reply
lioness | @lioness | Oct 14, 2019
In reply to @parrotqueen "Thank you, Lioness. That is a great suggestion. Only problem is - I cannot eat sugar..." + (show)
@parrotqueen

Thank you, Lioness. That is a great suggestion. Only problem is - I cannot eat sugar in any form - not even in fruit. I am allergic to sugar. So, no smoothies for me, sadly. I used to live on smoothies back in the 80s. People thought I was crazy.

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@parrotqueen So sorry you cant have smoothies lets see what about herbal tea? or sprinkle on oatmeal or the like? I'm not sure if you could bake anything with it in it.

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Moderator
Colleen Young, Connect Director | @colleenyoung | Oct 14, 2019
In reply to @parrotqueen "I am an avid gardener living in sunny California. You cannot get enough vitamin D3 from..." + (show)
@parrotqueen

I am an avid gardener living in sunny California. You cannot get enough vitamin D3 from the sun anymore because of too much particulate in the air. When I got my vitamin D3 level checked, it was an abysmal 3 ng/ml. My DEXA scan came back at -5.7 (serious osteoporosis is -2.5). This loss of calcium in my bones came about because of a pituitary tumor that caused serious hormonal deficiencies, more specifically a loss of human growth hormone. The tumor and HGH deficiency were not detected until I was 61 years of age. I went back on estrogen (low dose) and progesterone at age 68, as well as supplementation of Human Growth Hormone. I take 1200 mg calcium (600 mg in morning and 600 mg at night) with 2,000 IU of vitamin D3, Vitamin K2, boron, and 500 mg of magnesium. You MUST take Vitamin K2 or your calcium will wind up in your arteries instead of your bones! I take these supplements two hours away from anything else I am taking to avoid interactions. I eat piles and piles of kale and arugula with sliced almonds and pieces of cheese. I am lactose intolerant, so I take digestive enzymes to get the cheese in me. I eat salmon three times a week. Try to eat as much calcium as you can and subtract the mg of calcium you are getting from your daily total. (I have a kidney stone, so I have to watch that I don't get excessive amounts.). ConsumerLab has thousands of medical journal articles about supplements posted for you to read and they test to be sure your supplements are exactly what they say they are and nothing extra (e.g., lead, etc.). I have also increased the amount I walk each day in an effort to increase my bone strength. I take this very seriously as I have started fracturing. I just can't do sardines. I am avoiding the drugs like Prolia after speaking with woman who took it and have irreversible, devastating side effects (osteonecrosis of the jaw, etc.). Also, when you go off the drugs like Fosamax and Prolia, the new bone you made suddenly disappears. Those drugs seem to me to be very dangerous. I am getting a new DEXA scan early in 2020, and I'll try to remember to come back and give an update. I have only been on this regimen the past six months, but even a modest reversal of my bone loss would encourage me. Good luck, everybody!

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Hi @parrotqueen, I noticed that you wished to post two URLs to web resources with your post. You will be able to add URLs to your posts in a few days. There is a brief period where new members can't post links. We do this to deter spammers and keep the community safe. Clearly the links you wanted to post are not spam. Please allow me to post them for you.

- For nutrition information https://nutritiondata.self.com/
- To check the safety of supplements https://www.consumerlab.com/

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1 reply
JK | @contentandwell | Oct 14, 2019
In reply to @hopeful33250 "Hello @kahli and @contentandwell, I don't know much about organic calcium. I also have experienced a..." + (show)
@hopeful33250

Hello @kahli and @contentandwell,

I don't know much about organic calcium. I also have experienced a lot of bone pain from osteopenia.

Here is a link to an article from the National Institute of Health about Vit K2 helping to prevent fractures,

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4042573/

Here is the first paragraph of the article,

"Vitamin K may play an important role in the prevention of fractures in postmenopausal women with osteoporosis. Menatetrenone is the brand name of a synthetic vitamin K2 that is chemically identical to menaquinone-4. The present review study aimed to clarify the effect of menatetrenone on the skeleton in postmenopausal women with osteoporosis, by reviewing the results of randomized controlled trials (RCTs) in the literature. RCTs that investigated the effect of menatetrenone on bone mineral density (BMD), measured by dual-energy X-ray absorptiometry and fracture incidence in postmenopausal women with osteoporosis, were identified by a PubMed search for literature published in English. Eight studies met the criteria for RCTs. Small RCTs showed that menatetrenone monotherapy decreased serum undercarboxylated osteocalcin (ucOC) concentrations, modestly increased lumbar spine BMD, and reduced the incidence of fractures (mainly vertebral fracture), and that combined alendronate and menatetrenone therapy enhanced the decrease in serum ucOC concentrations and further increased femoral neck BMD. This review of the literature revealed positive evidence for the effects of menatetrenone monotherapy on fracture incidence in postmenopausal women with osteoporosis. Further studies are required to clarify the efficacy of menatetrenone in combination with bisphosphonates against fractures in postmenopausal women with osteoporosis."

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@hopeful33250 That article gets very technical. Medical jargon eludes me.
I saw my PCP today and he mentioned giving me an Rx for vitamin D, but then did not! I think other than that though I will wait until I see an osteoporosis specialist, and run everything by my transplant team. I will check with the transplant team on the high dose of vitamin D also, I run everything by them.
JK

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2 replies
parrotqueen | @parrotqueen | Oct 15, 2019
In reply to @colleenyoung "Hi @parrotqueen, I noticed that you wished to post two URLs to web resources with your..." + (show)
@colleenyoung

Hi @parrotqueen, I noticed that you wished to post two URLs to web resources with your post. You will be able to add URLs to your posts in a few days. There is a brief period where new members can't post links. We do this to deter spammers and keep the community safe. Clearly the links you wanted to post are not spam. Please allow me to post them for you.

- For nutrition information https://nutritiondata.self.com/
- To check the safety of supplements https://www.consumerlab.com/

Jump to this post

Thank you so much for posting those links. I think they are very important for people who are interested in nutrition and who might be needing supplements. I appreciate you posting those links.

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parrotqueen | @parrotqueen | Oct 15, 2019
In reply to @contentandwell "@hopeful33250 That article gets very technical. Medical jargon eludes me. I saw my PCP today and..." + (show)
@contentandwell

@hopeful33250 That article gets very technical. Medical jargon eludes me.
I saw my PCP today and he mentioned giving me an Rx for vitamin D, but then did not! I think other than that though I will wait until I see an osteoporosis specialist, and run everything by my transplant team. I will check with the transplant team on the high dose of vitamin D also, I run everything by them.
JK

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You need to run everything you do by your transplant team. Let me know when you find an osteoporosis specialist. I was sent to an endocrinologist who tried to put me on Prolia. When I told her I would not be taking Prolia, she walked out of the room and had nothing more to say to me. Every doctor has something to say, and they are not always accurate. I'm still looking for what the right answers are. The one thing I am comfortable saying is that if you can get your nutrients from food - do that! But according to researchers, almost all of us need to supplement our vitamin D3 - so ask your team about it. You do not need a prescription for vitamin D3, unless you have MS or an absorption problem and need to take the mega dose (which it seems you could still do with OTC vitamins - but maybe it's different). I started taking it when a friend, who is a scientist and a doctor, showed up at my doorstep with a bottle of D3 in a bag. I am lacking an immune system, and vitamin D3 has prevented many colds. You might want to tell your transplant team that. I have to get IVIG (IV Immunoglobulin) every three weeks so I have an immune system. The vitamin D3 gives me an additional immune-system boost. I'm thinking you could use a boost. Ask your doc.

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parrotqueen | @parrotqueen | Oct 15, 2019
In reply to @contentandwell "@ellerbracke You may not do "formal" weight-bearing exercises but you sure do a lot of exercises..." + (show)
@contentandwell

@ellerbracke You may not do "formal" weight-bearing exercises but you sure do a lot of exercises in just doing what you do. You sound like a "superwoman" to me!
I am so glad the days are cooler here now but I am not looking forward to winter and snow. I am really fearful of icey sidewalks now that I know I have osteoporosis.
JK

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I really think you should take vitamin D3. It helps with balance - a lot! I have three medical journal articles about this very issue. Also, ask your PT for some exercises for balance and recovery - so if you start to fall you can right yourself. My PT did this for me. I can't tell you how much vitamin D3 to take - but get a blood test first to see where you are at. I like my D level to be up around 80 or 90. I started at 3. It took a long time of big doses (4,000 IU up to 10,000 IU) to build it up. I never get a cold or the flu (knock on wood). My balance is really wonderful considering how sickly I am. Ask your transplant team about it. You can get vitamin K2 from eating arugula and kale - K2 tells your body where to send the calcium. If you don't take K2, some doctors say the calcium can wind up in your arteries. I take a K2 supplement because I'm not always ready to eat kale (although I hide it in my veggie burgers).

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1 reply
Mentor
Teresa, Volunteer Mentor | @hopeful33250 | Oct 15, 2019
In reply to @contentandwell "@hopeful33250 That article gets very technical. Medical jargon eludes me. I saw my PCP today and..." + (show)
@contentandwell

@hopeful33250 That article gets very technical. Medical jargon eludes me.
I saw my PCP today and he mentioned giving me an Rx for vitamin D, but then did not! I think other than that though I will wait until I see an osteoporosis specialist, and run everything by my transplant team. I will check with the transplant team on the high dose of vitamin D also, I run everything by them.
JK

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Hi @contentandwell
I find it interesting that he would want to prescribe a Vit. D Rx without checking your Vit. D. level first.
Did he order blood work to check on the D level?

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2 replies
lioness | @lioness | Oct 15, 2019
In reply to @hopeful33250 "Hi @contentandwell I find it interesting that he would want to prescribe a Vit. D Rx..." + (show)
@hopeful33250

Hi @contentandwell
I find it interesting that he would want to prescribe a Vit. D Rx without checking your Vit. D. level first.
Did he order blood work to check on the D level?

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@contentandwell I'm surprised also . I would ask him for a D level check in blood work How does he know how low you are or how much you need?

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1 reply
JK | @contentandwell | Oct 17, 2019
In reply to @hopeful33250 "Hi @contentandwell I find it interesting that he would want to prescribe a Vit. D Rx..." + (show)
@hopeful33250

Hi @contentandwell
I find it interesting that he would want to prescribe a Vit. D Rx without checking your Vit. D. level first.
Did he order blood work to check on the D level?

Jump to this post

@hopeful33250 I sent him a message on the portal about that but his office takes forever to respond to portal messages, very poor. As I mentioned, he said he wanted to prescribe vitamin D but he left it there!

Teresa, on a prior post you mentioned pain from osteoporosis. I don’t think I have that pain, do most people? My legs do hurt at times but I attribute that to exercise and activity. Maybe it’s osteoporosis pain?
JK

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