Vitamin K: High Doses of MK-4 and MK-7 Show Promising Results

@loplady - have you already been on a bone drug?

@singingbones No I have not. I am super sensitive to meds so have avoided. My last Dexa in November was -4.0 for spine, they had to omit L3-L4 due to sclerosis. I had a REMS last week in SC when I was visiting family and it was a -3.1 with a Bone Strength score of 71. They did not offer a fragility score, trying to find more information on the Bone Strength Score but they said it was good.

@loplady What does your bone strength score of 71 mean? Where does that fall in the bone strength range? What does your doctor say about your refusal of meds? I am curious because my DEXA for my spine is -4.1. I also have refused meds. Thanks.

@singingbones For a couple months, I've been taking: 180mcg Menaquinone-7 (MK7) - TrueVantage brand and 45,000 mcg (45 mg) of vitamin K2 (menaquinone-4) - Life Extension K2 High Potency brand.

I am considering switching to a MK4 supplement that comes in three 15mg doses, but they are a lot more expensive than those that come in one 45mg dose. I know that's what was used in the Japanese studies. However, I read this article: https://threearrowsnutra.com/blogs/ironwarrior/mk4-vs-mk7
It says: "MK4's serum half-life is roughly two hours — and that rapid disappearance from blood isn't a weakness. It's the opposite. Your body pulls MK4 straight into the brain, bone, kidney, pancreas, and reproductive organs. What leaves the bloodstream fastest may be doing the most work. If a nutrient's invisible in a blood draw, it's often because it already reached where it needs to be."

@daisy17 I was told this of the Bone Strength Score "How our strength score works compared to a fragility score is it is directly inverted. Meaning that a 30 fragility score is a 70 strength score." They told me they had a 30 year old woman who lifted weights for years and her BSS was 93 so this gave me hope that I wasn't too bad for me at 63. I do not feel confident of my last Dexa results due to the elimination of those two vertebrae and that when I asked the tech who was doing my dexa how she knew if I was positioned the same/correctly, she told me the software took care of that. Uh, no it doesn't. My endocrinologist accepts my decision but my gynecologist was quite stern with me and said "just take the meds!" There was also a discordance of 1.8 between my hips and vertebrae score, I believe that is a flag as well. With the rems, they were .1 apart. I found this somewhere after my Dexa and if anyone has done this, I'd love to know. "If only two vertebrae are left, because the other vertebrae have been eliminated or both hips have been excluded because of hip replacements, then a lateral vertebral assessment (LVA) — a DXA of the mid and upper back or lateral thoracic x-ray — should be done."

@daisy17 - I've been taking MK7 for several yrs in addition to other supplements. AI seems to think that taking MK4 (divided doses) while on Evenity would be safe because they behave differently (how's that for a technical summary?). I have not found any studies except for one that speaks to taking MK4 while taking a bisphosphonate. I reluctantly agreed to the Evenity (not a bisphosphonate) course, which I will finish in 2 mo.

Interestingly, I did take strontium citrate for 2.5 months before Evenity, but had not studied it enough to proceed after the dr was adamant about the drug.

At this moment, I plan to add the MK4 at the end of the Evenity drug, as it seems more sensible and then eventually to transition to strontium citrate to maintain the gains. I haven't found anything that would indicate that MK4 could hold the density gains, but I'm still digging!

I suspect that bone turnover markers will be good indicators while waiting on the 2-yr DXA period offset by REMS scans in between.

Very interesting article that you cited - thanks!

@singingbones Are you also going to take a bisphosphonate after the Evenity, to lock in your gains?

@loplady I am 76 and there is a discordance in my DEXA scores also, as I am -2.7 in my hips and -4,1 in my spine. I also have osteoarthritis in my spine and read that could skew the DEXA results. Plus I am short and of slim build and read that could also affect my DEXA score, although my Dr disagrees on that.

@daisy17 I'm 5'2, 102 and the scelerosis is likely osteoarthritis in my spine as well. I've been lifting weights and eating more protein which helped me to gain 4 pounds. I lost some weight when I got covid and had a hard time gaining it back.

@daisy17 - I don't plan to do that at this time although it is advised. I want to see what impact my modified strength exercises, nutrition & hormones will have on my bone health first. I realize there's a risk of losing gains, but I no longer want to be on a bone drug when so many of my friends have successfully avoided them. The REMS scan will give me a good indication of my progress at approx 6 mo out when I can reevaluate. I can also self-pay for bone turnover markers which will reflect changes sooner. That's the plan today. Tomorrow it could change!