High Lipoprotein(a) but CAC Score 0

Posted by leeosteo @leeosteo, Mar 19 3:22pm

Hi, I'm new to this discussion on heart and blood health.

I just recently took my first Lipoprotein(a) test. Since heart disease runs on my mother's side of the family I thought I should take the test. I'm 68, active at the gym, eat clean diet. The test result was 172 nmol. My PCP immediately suggested a statin (avorstatin?).

Two years ago I had a Cornary Artery Calcium (CAC) test because my husband was put on a statin and requested the same test. His cardiologist suggested I get the same. The result was 0.

Over the last 15 years my overall cholesterol has been going up. I just assumed this was menopause related. Both my HDL and LDL have been creeping up (triglycerides are ok). So for 15 years my doctors have all said don't worry, your covered by your HDL.

So here I am with my PCP suggesting a avorstatin (sp?). I don't want to take a statin just yet because I don't understand why I should. In addition, I have osteoporosis. I understand that statin's are not good for your bones.

Has anyone else experienced this? What did you do?

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Profile picture for mcchesney @kathleen1314

@19281928
I think that much of these different reactions may be driven more by individual differences in our bodies rather than different beliefs.
Our bodies just act differently towards fats and different foods and nutrients and even thru different ages of our lives.
Ai says it this way:
People react differently to fats and other nutrients due to a complex interplay of genetics, gut microbiome composition, and metabolic health. This concept, known as personalized nutrition or nutrigenetics, explains why a diet like the Atkins diet (high-fat, low-carb) can yield vastly different results for two people even if they follow it identically.
research with different people and even identical twins and how the react differently:
https://www.fooddive.com/news/study-everyone-responds-differently-to-the-same-nutritional-content-even/556572/

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@kathleen1314 definitely 😍 we're all different 😉

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Profile picture for mcchesney @kathleen1314

Ok.....what I see is low CAC, high Lp(A), rising HDL and rising LDL....no reported triglycerides which would be helpful.

CAC only looks at hard plaque not soft plaque....CAC is a picture in time that is frequently zero before about 60 years old or thereabouts. A CCTA is usually used to find a more complete picture if the doctor feels that it is needed.

Lp(A) is more of a future indicator of which way your body may age, plus a major risk factor for the aortic valve.
Without hormone therapy and probably even with BHRT or HRT, albeit lessened, your cardio system will continue to age and be driven by your life style and genetics, Lp(A) is one of these.

ApoB, blood test, might help clarify the LDL by showing the number of plaque forming particles.
But...
It looks like your doctor feels that the higher LDL and the high Lp(A) will be driving your cardio system as you age. So the dr wishes to lower the LDL to lower your risk of cardio plaque forming driven by your genetics, Lp(A) in this case. Basically, your doctor is looking at future problems. It is much easier to prevent a problem than to "fix" an existing problem with plaque etc.

I actually have a similar problem. I have had an array of cardio tests which I requested. My very high HDL and low optimal triglycerides have blinded most doctors to any possible cardio problems. I had a borderline Lp(A) and ApoB, very high HDL, slightly elevated LDL and low triglycerides. My CAC was below 11 in one artery with one valve showing mild calcification, both these areas are where plaque occurs with age, due to the way the blood flows. I am in my 70s so this is a good age to see how the body is using my mixed bag of cardio numbers, earlier in my 50s or 60s probably nothing would have been found on the CAC scan. A mixed bag but heavy leaning towards "no problem".
I am having an ultrasound next week to check that valve just to make sure that the mild plaque is not in a place to impede the valve.
But right now no statins etc are being prescribed.

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@kathleen1314 , yes it looks like we're somewhat similar.. exception my very high lpa. I'll be 69 this year and this is the first potential cardio issue in my life. I have no symptoms. My bloodwork standard lipid panel results came back slightly elevated overall, LDL and HDL but my doctor said not to worry. Then the lpa results and she's immediately recommending statin. I was caught off guard thinking I'm ok with CAC=0. The more I research the more I can see your comments are probably right on. My PCP is probably trying to protect me from a future event. However, I'd prefer more tests to understand the full picture before taking a statin. Even though the outcome may be the same, a statin. I also think I should consult with a cardiologist first. Thanks for your input.

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Profile picture for mcchesney @kathleen1314

@19281928
I think that much of these different reactions may be driven more by individual differences in our bodies rather than different beliefs.
Our bodies just act differently towards fats and different foods and nutrients and even thru different ages of our lives.
Ai says it this way:
People react differently to fats and other nutrients due to a complex interplay of genetics, gut microbiome composition, and metabolic health. This concept, known as personalized nutrition or nutrigenetics, explains why a diet like the Atkins diet (high-fat, low-carb) can yield vastly different results for two people even if they follow it identically.
research with different people and even identical twins and how the react differently:
https://www.fooddive.com/news/study-everyone-responds-differently-to-the-same-nutritional-content-even/556572/

Jump to this post

@kathleen1314 , I would agree with you.

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If you are 68 with a cac score of 0 that means your risk of a coronary event is very low despite your high LPa. Statins do nothing to lower LPa and a few studies showed that it might even increase it. Niacin ( vit B3) has been shown to lower it about 15-20% . There are some new drugs nearing approval that can lower it 80% or so.
But really with your cac score I would find something else to worry about although I would do a repeat test in a few years to see if it has increased and take action then if the increase is significant.

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Profile picture for leeosteo @leeosteo

@kathleen1314 , yes it looks like we're somewhat similar.. exception my very high lpa. I'll be 69 this year and this is the first potential cardio issue in my life. I have no symptoms. My bloodwork standard lipid panel results came back slightly elevated overall, LDL and HDL but my doctor said not to worry. Then the lpa results and she's immediately recommending statin. I was caught off guard thinking I'm ok with CAC=0. The more I research the more I can see your comments are probably right on. My PCP is probably trying to protect me from a future event. However, I'd prefer more tests to understand the full picture before taking a statin. Even though the outcome may be the same, a statin. I also think I should consult with a cardiologist first. Thanks for your input.

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@leeosteo Statins do nothing to lower LPa and a few studies showed that it might even increase it. Niacin ( vit B3) has been shown to lower it about 15-20% . There are some new drugs nearing approval that can lower it 80% or so. At your age a cac score of 0 is actually unusual and I would find something else to worry about. Repeat the test in a few years just in case .

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Profile picture for dianempx @dianempx

@leeosteo I do have high Lp(a) and my cardiologist recommended Repatha but did not mention studies. I declined taking Repatha for now because I don't feel it does enough and I want to wait until more information is available and those studies come up with a more effective treatment.

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@dianempx Repatha does nothing to lower LPa. Currently B3 ( niacin) is the only substance that lowers LPa ..about 15%. There are some drugs likely to be approved this year that claim to lower it by 80%.

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Profile picture for bitsygirl @bitsygirl

@leeosteo I don't imagine you will be in my position ever, and certainly not anytime soon. I am already younger than you and my score is approaching 600. It takes decades for atherosclerosis to develop. According to the MESA calculator here: https://mesa-nhlbi.org/researchers/tools/mesa-score-risk-calculator, I have the veins of an 87 year old. So you might get there by the time you are 87. Even then, the predicted age is probably an "average" and I'd have to guess you're "better" than average wrt atherosclerosis development. I threw some numbers in that calculator: 0 CAC, 68 years old, and even at very high Total Cholesterol numbers, you're "CAC age" was much lower than your chronological age. All just speculation and averages, but you seem to be in pretty good shape.

The point I was trying to make was that having the high score weighs on my mind. Atherosclerosis really only goes in one direction. There's no fixing it. So now I have this constant hum in the background of the thing that can't be fixed and threatens my life. So if someone could avoid it, trying/taking the statins seems like a trade that might be worth making. I'd guess it depends somewhat on your personality, too. According to my doctors, the statins should keep it from progressing. Then in your case, you'd have pretty good confidence it would never be a problem.

Good luck. By my take you're in as good a shape as one could reasonably expect at this point.

March 24 is lp(a) awareness day. Here's a video by the Family Heart Foundation that explains the effect of high lp(a) over a woman's lifetime. FWIW. (https://www.youtube.com/watch)

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@bitsygirl "The point I was trying to make was that having the high score weighs on my mind. "

Over large populations the cac score is very predictive but on an individual basis it does not necessarily mean an event is impending. I am 68 and had a 600 score in my early 40's. My current score is north of 2300. I have had no symptoms or events. There are people out there with scores north of 6000 who are alive and well.
The limitation of the calcium scan is that it is not a test of the current total functionality of your heart. It estimates plaque burden in the major arteries and that spells trouble in most people at some point down the road. A better predictor of your immediate future is the good old stress test ( pass it and your chance of a cardiac event in the next year is minimal). Better yet there is a calculation derived from that called the Duke score. Anything above 5 on the Duke scale means that there is just a 1% chance of having an event in the next 4 years. The score starts with the amount of time you can stay on the treadmill and deducts points for things like angina, heart rythem issues etc. I have had several of em over the years and my most recent score was 13. The testing center will not volunteer this info...you have to ask for it. !

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Profile picture for leeosteo @leeosteo

@kathleen1314 , yes it looks like we're somewhat similar.. exception my very high lpa. I'll be 69 this year and this is the first potential cardio issue in my life. I have no symptoms. My bloodwork standard lipid panel results came back slightly elevated overall, LDL and HDL but my doctor said not to worry. Then the lpa results and she's immediately recommending statin. I was caught off guard thinking I'm ok with CAC=0. The more I research the more I can see your comments are probably right on. My PCP is probably trying to protect me from a future event. However, I'd prefer more tests to understand the full picture before taking a statin. Even though the outcome may be the same, a statin. I also think I should consult with a cardiologist first. Thanks for your input.

Jump to this post

@leeosteo
Yes, I agree. I find that I have a "line" that I have to cross to feel "comfortable" with any decision. I have to feel that I have done everything I can and researched all options in order to feel comfortable with any medication or supplement. I have an additional problem though I overreact to most meds and many supplements. I see to have a genetic condition that lends to this reaction.
So for me to take a med like a statin I would have to be desperate, because there is a good chance, based on past experiences, that I will experience the one in a million reaction. My husband is different and is taking statins with good results. He loves them and is irritating me because my home now seems full of foods that we didn't eat before he felt statin would protect him from them...sigh
Something that is really helping me with working thru all my options is AI copilot. I am not as enamored with Ai google and the Google ai mode for personal health questions, but copilot is better at finding all options and placing them into context. Might give it a try and see if it helps you work thru your options.

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Profile picture for fmulhare @fmulhare

If you are 68 with a cac score of 0 that means your risk of a coronary event is very low despite your high LPa. Statins do nothing to lower LPa and a few studies showed that it might even increase it. Niacin ( vit B3) has been shown to lower it about 15-20% . There are some new drugs nearing approval that can lower it 80% or so.
But really with your cac score I would find something else to worry about although I would do a repeat test in a few years to see if it has increased and take action then if the increase is significant.

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@fmulhare
I actually think that this is very good advice. Run it by your doctor I bet they will agree to go with this measured and watch procedure for you.

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Profile picture for mcchesney @kathleen1314

@leeosteo
Yes, I agree. I find that I have a "line" that I have to cross to feel "comfortable" with any decision. I have to feel that I have done everything I can and researched all options in order to feel comfortable with any medication or supplement. I have an additional problem though I overreact to most meds and many supplements. I see to have a genetic condition that lends to this reaction.
So for me to take a med like a statin I would have to be desperate, because there is a good chance, based on past experiences, that I will experience the one in a million reaction. My husband is different and is taking statins with good results. He loves them and is irritating me because my home now seems full of foods that we didn't eat before he felt statin would protect him from them...sigh
Something that is really helping me with working thru all my options is AI copilot. I am not as enamored with Ai google and the Google ai mode for personal health questions, but copilot is better at finding all options and placing them into context. Might give it a try and see if it helps you work thru your options.

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@kathleen1314 , funny... I'm the exact same way with researching the condition and all options in order to feel comfortable with any medication. I have that "comfort line" also. I've never taken meds until my osteoporosis diagnosis. I took a year researching and met with a specialist before agreeing to take the med. I'm also sensitive to meds. I just tried AI co-pilot yesterday. It helped explain the medical issue and why doctors immediately go to statins. Then I got into diet and meal plans in co-pilot. Turns out that I'm eating exactly all the right foods now and have been most of my life. I guess this explains why my CAC=0. Maybe my risk factor (because of lpa) is low? More questions for the doctor (smile).

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