Vagus Nerve Effect on Heartbeat

Posted by meadows @meadows, Oct 14 6:43am

Does anyone with tachycardia (fast heart beat) find that it occurs mostly at night while laying down? Also, immediately after the fast beat awakens me, both legs cramp and become a bit spastic. Numerous heart and neurological tests come out okay, so now I wonder if some of the issues are really the result of the Vagus nerve and if others have found this to be so for their situation. Thanks

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Profile picture for tekkie50 @tekkie50

Hi, I'm Wendy. I've had pAFib for a couple of years now, almost entirely at night. A couple of weeks ago I stopped at Culver's with my spouse. I asked her to order me a mini concrete mixer (about the size of a single scoop of custard). When it arrived at the table, it turned out to be a small (about 2.5 times as much). I watch my weight, and never have that much (but it WAS pumpkin, and I hadn't ordered anything else). Long story short, I ate the whole thing, and within an hour, I was in AFib. Did my vagus nerve do this? Anyone else have this happen?

Wendy

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@tekkie50 if I eat much of anything or especially sweets after 6pm I’m doomed for Afib. I’d better walk a mile, when eating after 6.

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Profile picture for heyjoe415 @heyjoe415

Thanks Gloaming, this is all very helpful. I did not know stress resulted in more sugar in the blood via the liver. That would increase inflammation, adding to an overall state of great unease.

I'm gonna keep up the acupuncture treatments now that I've started. They are covered my Medicare Part B for the lower back.

Thanks again! (Are you a Dr, or otherwise in medicine? Sounds like it.)

Joe

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@heyjoe415 No, no medical training. But in my military specialty, I was called on to provide base-wide lectures in stress management, retirement planning, and other forms of 'human resources' issues. Naturally I had to learn my topics well enough to be able to speak extemporaneously about them and to answer pointed and specific questions.

There is eustress and stress. Eustress is what 'doesn't kill us and makes us stronger.' An example , also known as the 'hormesis effect', is exposure to mild amounts of radiation. We are told that radiation is bad and that a single ionizing photon can cause DNA damage. That's true. But when we measure longevity and overall health in populations, those exposed to low radiation actually do better! We could call it a form of 'eustress'. But the kind of stress that raises cortisol and adrenalin, the kind that makes us ruminate at night and be unable to fall asleep or to fall back asleep, eats away at us and can bring heart disease, dementia, hypertension, etc.

You are right about inflammation and sugar. Good for picking up on that!

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Profile picture for heyjoe415 @heyjoe415

Thanks Gloaming, this is all very helpful. I did not know stress resulted in more sugar in the blood via the liver. That would increase inflammation, adding to an overall state of great unease.

I'm gonna keep up the acupuncture treatments now that I've started. They are covered my Medicare Part B for the lower back.

Thanks again! (Are you a Dr, or otherwise in medicine? Sounds like it.)

Joe

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@heyjoe415 I believe you are fortunate to have discovered acupuncture, as I also had major health improvements when I first discovered it decades ago and have utilized it ever since, although don’t need it that much. I say, use what works! (And I find taking half a scoop of Calm brand Magnesium Citrate once a day does wonders for constipation (and mixed with water, makes the water tasty, so I hydrate more regularly). I am sure there are other brands that work but this one just tastes so great!

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Profile picture for heyjoe415 @heyjoe415

Thanks Gloaming, this is all very helpful. I did not know stress resulted in more sugar in the blood via the liver. That would increase inflammation, adding to an overall state of great unease.

I'm gonna keep up the acupuncture treatments now that I've started. They are covered my Medicare Part B for the lower back.

Thanks again! (Are you a Dr, or otherwise in medicine? Sounds like it.)

Joe

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@heyjoe415 I have a separate reply to you, but I just saw this video posted by Dr. Norwitz whom I follow. His style if pretty breezy, but his message and his science are pretty solid:

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Profile picture for gloaming @gloaming

@heyjoe415 No, no medical training. But in my military specialty, I was called on to provide base-wide lectures in stress management, retirement planning, and other forms of 'human resources' issues. Naturally I had to learn my topics well enough to be able to speak extemporaneously about them and to answer pointed and specific questions.

There is eustress and stress. Eustress is what 'doesn't kill us and makes us stronger.' An example , also known as the 'hormesis effect', is exposure to mild amounts of radiation. We are told that radiation is bad and that a single ionizing photon can cause DNA damage. That's true. But when we measure longevity and overall health in populations, those exposed to low radiation actually do better! We could call it a form of 'eustress'. But the kind of stress that raises cortisol and adrenalin, the kind that makes us ruminate at night and be unable to fall asleep or to fall back asleep, eats away at us and can bring heart disease, dementia, hypertension, etc.

You are right about inflammation and sugar. Good for picking up on that!

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Thanks for the thoughtful response gloaming!

My therapist was the one who told me about the connection between sugar intake and inflammation. I don't quite understand the mechanism. It has something to do with a type of bacteria that increases with sugar intake. I think. I stopped drinking my nightly bottle of coke (39 grams of sugar in 12 oz!) and along with spinning 5x/week, have lost 40 lbs (190 to 150) over the last two years.

I do have the occasional coke or dessert, but much less often. And I feel much better! My weight has stayed within a 2-3 lb range for well over a year.

Joe

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Profile picture for nm80 @nm80

@heyjoe415 I believe you are fortunate to have discovered acupuncture, as I also had major health improvements when I first discovered it decades ago and have utilized it ever since, although don’t need it that much. I say, use what works! (And I find taking half a scoop of Calm brand Magnesium Citrate once a day does wonders for constipation (and mixed with water, makes the water tasty, so I hydrate more regularly). I am sure there are other brands that work but this one just tastes so great!

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Thank you nm80!

I did the acupuncture session mostly as a lark and was amazed at the results.

I've also been told that dry needling can help by being placed directly in a muscle (as opposed to acupuncture that works along "meridians" in the body). I will likely do both as I found acupuncture so effective.

My therapist explained that as we age, the fascia surrounding our muscle fibers gets dryer and tight. The needle penetrates that fascia and ultimately loosens so muscles can move against each other with less friction (and tightness).

Hey, it worked and I will make it part of my health routine!

Joe

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Profile picture for gloaming @gloaming

@heyjoe415 I have a separate reply to you, but I just saw this video posted by Dr. Norwitz whom I follow. His style if pretty breezy, but his message and his science are pretty solid:

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Thanks gloaming. I like this type of video with a unique and "breezy" delivery. It's very easy to follow compared to so many dry, clinical vids by doctors and surgeons - and it's a better way to convey an otherwise complex message/explanation.

I had no idea that stress can cause the liver to release sugar. I guess we all know stress is a) absolutely no fun and b) hazardous to our health. The best way I have to relieve stress is vigorous cardio exercise. I ran marathons in my 30s and 40s and now, with running in my past after two knee replacements, I spin 5x/week for 40 minutes, using the HIIT method, and that takes care of a to of stress.

The Catch 22 about stress is that it can be stressful to just think about how one can reduce stress. Gotta stay ahead of it though as long-term exposure is ruinous to health and mental well-being.

Thanks again!

Joe

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Profile picture for heyjoe415 @heyjoe415

Thank you nm80!

I did the acupuncture session mostly as a lark and was amazed at the results.

I've also been told that dry needling can help by being placed directly in a muscle (as opposed to acupuncture that works along "meridians" in the body). I will likely do both as I found acupuncture so effective.

My therapist explained that as we age, the fascia surrounding our muscle fibers gets dryer and tight. The needle penetrates that fascia and ultimately loosens so muscles can move against each other with less friction (and tightness).

Hey, it worked and I will make it part of my health routine!

Joe

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@heyjoe415 try doing 10 minutes of EFT tapping around the chest and head and 5-6 diaphragmatic breaths nightly before bed. You’ll sleep well. I fall straight to sleep. Acupuncture is great!

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Mine surely seem to be stress related.
My events usually occur while I'm sleeping and I only notice if I happen to wake up (infrequent) or my Fitbit sends me a potential Afib notification in the morning.
They always are preceded by some stress event the preceding day. This can be a psychological stressor like dealing with a relationship issue, overexertion or both.
I also notice that Afib events are frequently accompanied by an increase in resting HR and a decrease in weight in the preceding days.
I've found that deep breathing and relaxation will calm a daytime event; so there's definitely and autonomic component.
Because of that I've started trying vagal nerve stimulation daily to see if it helps reduce the frequency, intensity or duration of my episodes.
I'm using TENS7000 device with an earclip on my right tragus (the cardiac branch of the vagus nerve), 200ms pulse, 20Hz for an hour a day per a successful protocol (85% reduction in Afib burden) reported in: https://www.jacc.org/doi/10.1016/j.jacep.2019.11.008
Along with managing stress and moderating exertion, we'll see how it goes.
Have only had one reported night time event and two managable daytime events since July when I started. So far so good. No ER vistits for conversion.

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Profile picture for moski @moski

@heyjoe415 try doing 10 minutes of EFT tapping around the chest and head and 5-6 diaphragmatic breaths nightly before bed. You’ll sleep well. I fall straight to sleep. Acupuncture is great!

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Thanks moski! Much appreciated.

I will try your suggestion. What is "EFT". I'm familiar with EMDR used in therapy and that involves tapping and is very effective at narrowing focus. I've had great results with it.

I'll give it a try at bedtime and thanks! (And isn't it wild how calming several deep, belly breaths can be - and how infrequently we use it?)

Yeah acupuncture was just terrific! Because I have so much tightness in my lower and upper back, I'm also going to do dry needling, which gets right into a muscle to release the hold of the muscle fascia. Acupuncture deals with the flow of energy along meridians in the body. Very effective and the needles look the same as dry needling, Placement is usually different.

Thanks again moski!

Joe

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