Did medication help in Vascular Dementia

Posted by riz1 @riz1, Jul 4 5:25pm

Hi, my mother in law who is 77 years old was recently diagnosed with vascular dementia. The doctor started her on Memantine (Namenda) about 3 weeks ago. He says Aricept would cause more side effects. Since she has been on Memantine, I feel that her symptoms have gotten worse. Before starting this medication, she was able to do her day-to-day things, but since she started this medication, we have noticed confusion, sedation, and a general feeling of being miserable. She does not seem like her normal self. We are reevaluating whether this medication is worth it to continue as we don’t want to compromise on her quality of life. She doesn’t want get out of the bed at all and wants to sleep all day. She feels helpless and even more depressed. Before starting this medication, she use to move around more and do her routine things.

I spoke to the doctor and he suggests that we finish the titration pack and then we will reassess. She is currently at 15mg per day and by next week will be on the 20mg max per day. I’m contemplating if I should contact the doctor again about discontinuing this medication as increasing it more might make her symptoms worse than they already are.

Please advise of anyone has gone through a similar experience. Do the symptoms get better? Should we continue? Or if this is how it will continue to be then shall we discontinue now?

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Caregivers: Dementia Support Group.

@jimandkaren

I can't remember and just looked and ours but L just have the reports with no front page for name or address which is odd for me not to have. However. my daughter is a COO of a Health Company and also a nutritionist. So I turn to her for referrals and to get the Brain nutritionist. She is hiking in Colorado with her family and I can't reach her but she will be back Tuesday night and I have made a note to check on that for you. In the mean time I will keep looking around our house. My wife may have put it somewhere. It is so very hard to get docs to pay attention.
For instance, I had to read theMRI results and found my wife's 9mm lesion is in her brocca area , which controls language. Her wernicke area is perfect. That's where comprehension is. So my wife can fully comprehend but because she has trouble forming the words or doing what's called word replacement(one word for another), people think she can't comprehend. If the circumstances allow, I act as her interpreter. Like she says I'm going to the water. I have to ask you mean the pool or the lake to walk? For something or someone going fast she says they're coming hard. See..... she can comprehend but not say the words. One brain deficiency in one area can appear to be or make people think they just don't understand, when that is NOT true. We just came from the Y where I take her 3 or4 times week to get her heartrate at 110 to 120 because of the vascular blood flow problem. She also has Factor V blood disorder, So blood flow is a challenge for us. On the way back I told her at least 4 times,...Karen you're doing great. You're so much better than a year ago. She said really. she doesn't realize so i give her reassurance she's doing what we need to do and it's working, even if I don't notice much improvement in the last few months. I have to keep her hope up. In Tennessee it is a Class D Felony to tell a Vulnerable Person they won't get better. Probably more info than you wanted but it is so hard and we just have to keep pushing because the system will write them off just as fast a anybody else. Even if the person is just sitting looking out the window most of the time....they are in there and we have to speak for them AND advocate for them, even strangers, they're people.... not throw aways. PS. there are no dumb questions!!!

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Very good point. I got into this thread by accident trying to go to mild cognitive deficit, but Factor V leapt out at me. Please know that for any kind of serious eye surgery patients on Xarelto or any of the other neo drugs she would need be off medication for ten days, not two days as is the standard. I learned this the hard way at 78. Had a small shunt for glaucoma inserted after being told to be off my 20 mg two days by two hematologists and staying off four just because I was nervous about it - had an eye wall collapse on the day I was going back for my big checkup. Got injections to inflate the eye again and a couple of other cleanup surgical procedures but the optic nerve was hopelessly damaged. It turns out Factor V makes an extremely hard clot. As far as I know, this still isn't written down anywhere and it happened to me 7 years ago. The retina specialist called in explained that a lot of older patients get prescribed these "new" meds which play havoc with the teeny weak blood vessels in the eye and in combination with Factor V it's especially serious. I hope it never applies to your wife.

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@bunzman

Whether regarding drugs or anything else, always evaluate whether the doctor is making sense and has sound reasoning. Don't be afraid to change. I changed my mom's doctor because she just seemed to put too much focus on preparing me for the inevitable and not quite focusing enough on my mom's quality of life. I understood what I was up against...

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Bunzman, I totally agree with changing docs. I changed my wife's MD because all he did was ask her "how are you doing?" draw her a picture then get up and leave. Her new doc is a lot better with the exam.

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@trishcnwma

Thank you so much for sharing this info!

I feel like I research 24/7 while taking care of my sister. Although she's been sick with multiple issues (uterine fibroids, massive PE, etc.) for over 2 years, the WM issues were news to us after bradycardia and an MRI in April. She suddenly went from being a voracious reader to not reading at all, and having the behavior of a child.

She has a terrible PCP and surprisingly bad PCP, cardiologist and neurologist. The cardiologist has zero interest in understanding why she experienced bradycardia or why she has SVTs (erratic heat beats; she had a ZIO heart monitor for 2 weeks). I've researched it more and learned that this issue needs to be addressed by a cardiac electrophysiologist (cardiologist who diagnoses and treats heart rhythm problems). I found one and am trying to get an appointment. Sadly, it seems like her doctors have given up and are waiting for her to slowly degrade.

I'm so incredibly frustrated and sad! We have another sister (none of us have kids) but I'm the sole caretaker.

This seems like a dumb question, but I'm wondering who orders the generic workup. Did you organize that through the nutritionist or her PCP?

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Well I looked and looked. Anytime anyone asks for anything I've found that helps I try to respond. So I finally found the Genetic workup I had done on myself. It's great and gives drug interactions on drugs a person is currently taking. You send them the drugs you are taking and it gives a full work up of Expected response, or just informative about the drug or recommends actionable, different names the drug may be found under, Geno types, dreg side effects for the persons Genetic makeup, drugs that will work best, Clinical consequences, dosing for that persons Genetic makeup( it always seemed strange how the dose would be the same for everybody) And IT"S NOT! It tells how the drugs can actually have different interactions than the doctor or pharmacy may tell us because they don't have our Genetic makeup.
I did mine before ny wife's White Matter Disease appeared. So my daughter had one done on my wife that is more medically and genetically detailed. However, I have to search for the meanings of all the symbols and Gene numbers, names on mine and my daughter has to help me with my wife's. They are very technical, like "Will interact adversely with CYP1A2". I mean what the heck does that mean? Do I have CYP1A2? I have to go back and see if I have that gene. What gene is that? So I have to research all the clinical terms but it's worth it.
Mine is fine and very thorough. It's 22 small print pages long. It does give a one page gene reaction summary card you can cut otu and take with you and the doctors, sometimes, know what they mean and can adjust dosage or a different drug, etc. For example, my wife has Factor V blood disorder but needs Warafin. However, with her Genetic makeup she this report said she can have an "Intermediate Warafin Sensitivity". So instead of 20mg everyday that she was taking, it was adjusted to just 10mg on Tuesdays and Thursday. Did it make a difference? I don't know but we can't see what's happening in their body until the reaction manifests outside the body and then it may be too late!
We adjusted the Warafin like the doctor suggested after seeing the Genetic workup and haven't any problems. Beware! The doctors will be very intimidated by a patient who comes in with all the information that is way over their head most of the time and they will also start thinking MALPRACTICE if they do or don't consider what you show or tell them but you have the info at home and you will know what works and the warnings. I have never shown it to a doctor but just in general say, "We"( not I, there's safety in numbers) so "WE" had a genetic testing done on her and helped identify that tylenol works better than Ibuprophen so we want to see what the Genetics of this new drug/drug she's on say about her taking it. "We're not questioning you but the more information we can get the better her chances are this drug will help. We just want to cover every base" Or just get the script filled and check it when you get home against the Genetic Testing Report.
Now the real info you wanted : I got mine from highlineLABS (spelled just like that, upper and lowercase).5900 Northwoods Business Parkway, Suite K, Charlotte NC.,28269 http://highline1.com There is no phone number on the report but it lists the Lab Director as James Fuller, PHD, DABCC, QCA. It wasn't ordered by my PCP but a doctor he referred me to for possible medication interactions. I see on the back she gives reasons for test request. I don't know if that is required but I wouldn't think so. Mine cost $300.00 in 2018. My wife's was $500.00 in 2021 but was from a different Lab and much much more in detail. Mine does have recommendations but they are general kind of suggestions, like may want to consider or possible so in so. Over the years it has been well worth the money because your genes don't change, so the report is good for ever. (80% of it you will not use because it goes into every drug you can think of and how it would work with you even if you don't take it now. Let us know how it goes!

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@boppi

Statins are terrible for you and can cause both confusion and leg weakness. Our cardiologist took bith my husband and I off of them and now I take rapatha injection and husband takes Nexlizet pill. Better all around.
I think higher doses of B12 are helping too. This getting old and/or ill is like a never ending research project and I appreciate all information.

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At our last meeting with the GP, I brought up the potential for statins to cause mental confusion and the GP agreed to a trial without the statins for six weeks. One immediate result was an end to unexplained episodes of hives. I have to be careful not to see what I want to see. That said, my husband does seem much more normal than when he was on the statin. Did you experience any resistance from doctors about going off statins? I'm concerned our doctor is a big fan. I will note the rapatha injection and Nexlizet pill to bring up at our next appointment. Are you aware of any other options? We are also experimenting with some supplements, such as Vitamin B. Thanks.

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Vitamine B in larger doses does help some. Statins are like a kneejerk reaction to vascular and heart concerns. It was our lifelong friend and GP who suggested the statins and a urinary med could be a contributor to confusion. Whrn I brought this up with cardiologist he said, no problem, there are now lots of other meds to take and younger doctors seem to be more aware of tge alternatives to statins. He asked if we wanted a pill or shot and my husband chose the pill and I chose Rapatha. Both are expensive but Rapatha has grants to subsidize the cost after insurance (speak to Walgreen’s specislty pharmacy). Nexlizet is also expensive but with the grant and insurance and new medicare law on $2,000 annual prescription max, either is bareable. No side effects from either so far. I think there may be other meds too but we are happy with these.

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@boppi

Vitamine B in larger doses does help some. Statins are like a kneejerk reaction to vascular and heart concerns. It was our lifelong friend and GP who suggested the statins and a urinary med could be a contributor to confusion. Whrn I brought this up with cardiologist he said, no problem, there are now lots of other meds to take and younger doctors seem to be more aware of tge alternatives to statins. He asked if we wanted a pill or shot and my husband chose the pill and I chose Rapatha. Both are expensive but Rapatha has grants to subsidize the cost after insurance (speak to Walgreen’s specislty pharmacy). Nexlizet is also expensive but with the grant and insurance and new medicare law on $2,000 annual prescription max, either is bareable. No side effects from either so far. I think there may be other meds too but we are happy with these.

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I doubt the hives had anything to do with the hives but I have gotten hives from sulpher meds.

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@boppi

I doubt the hives had anything to do with the hives but I have gotten hives from sulpher meds.

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I mean statins did’t have anything to do with hives

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@jimandkaren

Well I looked and looked. Anytime anyone asks for anything I've found that helps I try to respond. So I finally found the Genetic workup I had done on myself. It's great and gives drug interactions on drugs a person is currently taking. You send them the drugs you are taking and it gives a full work up of Expected response, or just informative about the drug or recommends actionable, different names the drug may be found under, Geno types, dreg side effects for the persons Genetic makeup, drugs that will work best, Clinical consequences, dosing for that persons Genetic makeup( it always seemed strange how the dose would be the same for everybody) And IT"S NOT! It tells how the drugs can actually have different interactions than the doctor or pharmacy may tell us because they don't have our Genetic makeup.
I did mine before ny wife's White Matter Disease appeared. So my daughter had one done on my wife that is more medically and genetically detailed. However, I have to search for the meanings of all the symbols and Gene numbers, names on mine and my daughter has to help me with my wife's. They are very technical, like "Will interact adversely with CYP1A2". I mean what the heck does that mean? Do I have CYP1A2? I have to go back and see if I have that gene. What gene is that? So I have to research all the clinical terms but it's worth it.
Mine is fine and very thorough. It's 22 small print pages long. It does give a one page gene reaction summary card you can cut otu and take with you and the doctors, sometimes, know what they mean and can adjust dosage or a different drug, etc. For example, my wife has Factor V blood disorder but needs Warafin. However, with her Genetic makeup she this report said she can have an "Intermediate Warafin Sensitivity". So instead of 20mg everyday that she was taking, it was adjusted to just 10mg on Tuesdays and Thursday. Did it make a difference? I don't know but we can't see what's happening in their body until the reaction manifests outside the body and then it may be too late!
We adjusted the Warafin like the doctor suggested after seeing the Genetic workup and haven't any problems. Beware! The doctors will be very intimidated by a patient who comes in with all the information that is way over their head most of the time and they will also start thinking MALPRACTICE if they do or don't consider what you show or tell them but you have the info at home and you will know what works and the warnings. I have never shown it to a doctor but just in general say, "We"( not I, there's safety in numbers) so "WE" had a genetic testing done on her and helped identify that tylenol works better than Ibuprophen so we want to see what the Genetics of this new drug/drug she's on say about her taking it. "We're not questioning you but the more information we can get the better her chances are this drug will help. We just want to cover every base" Or just get the script filled and check it when you get home against the Genetic Testing Report.
Now the real info you wanted : I got mine from highlineLABS (spelled just like that, upper and lowercase).5900 Northwoods Business Parkway, Suite K, Charlotte NC.,28269 http://highline1.com There is no phone number on the report but it lists the Lab Director as James Fuller, PHD, DABCC, QCA. It wasn't ordered by my PCP but a doctor he referred me to for possible medication interactions. I see on the back she gives reasons for test request. I don't know if that is required but I wouldn't think so. Mine cost $300.00 in 2018. My wife's was $500.00 in 2021 but was from a different Lab and much much more in detail. Mine does have recommendations but they are general kind of suggestions, like may want to consider or possible so in so. Over the years it has been well worth the money because your genes don't change, so the report is good for ever. (80% of it you will not use because it goes into every drug you can think of and how it would work with you even if you don't take it now. Let us know how it goes!

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Thank you so much for your very detailed response! This is very helpful and I will look into it.
Yes, I agree that doctors hate informed patients and caregivers. They just want to get the money for appointments/procedures, write scripts, and send you on your way. Those who used to say "your such a great advocate" are not as happy when I'm advocating for her and questioning them.
It took a lot of calls but I was able to get her an appointment with an electrophysiologist who seems to have good experience with her cardio issues. Sadly, the appointment is two months away. Hoping a waitlist opening becomes available. There are too few of these specialists and many are not taking new patients.

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