What am I doing wrong? How to get a good sputum specimen for a culture

Posted by pled @pled, Nov 28, 2023

Although I have tried several times, I have not been able to submit a sputum sample that meets the qualifications for testing. In the beginning it was because I was just dry coughing all the time and I basically gave up. But recently, by using postural drainage techniques I am able to cough up mucous in the evenings. My most recent sample came back "unacceptable for culture due to oropharyngeal contamination". I'm looking for tips on how to insure that my sample can be cultured in the future. Now that I'm actually coughing productively in the evenings, I am motivated to get this job done. How are you all accomplishing this?

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@blixtentoo

Can I ask you what kind of 'wedge' do you use and how do you place it. I'd like to start postural drainage but don't know where to begin. Many thanks.

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Hi @blixtentoo, Link below for wedge I use. In addition to wedge, we also put head of bed up on some blocks. Both of these together have helped my reflux. Honestly, the wedge alone was not enough. Now the sleeping angle is somewhere between 28-30 degrees. Those maneuvers (wedge and blocks) were an attempt by hubby to avoid purchasing an adjustable bed. That said, we do have an adjustable bed in guest room which I occasionally use for postural drainage.

It's sensible to know where the bronchiectasis is in your lungs so you can target that area with the correct PD position. Theoretically, your pulmonologist will review scan with you and point out the areas to focus on.

What I do is hoist up my hips with bent knees up on the wedge (or fully raised foot end of adjustable bed). This creates a slope for me when I lie down. Right side then left side. I do this after upright autogenic drainage (AD app) and lying down flat. It takes a lot of time especially in the morning. It's very much a drag and my hope is that some of the future medications will either 1) decrease the mucus and/or 2) help the mucus come up in less time. Hope springs eternal!

I've read that some also use inversion tables for postural drainage. Maybe that would hasten things? Some people use folded blankets on the floor to create a slope. It takes some fiddling to figure out what works for you. It seems to me that a simple collapsible cot like bed could be designed with a downward slope.
https://relaxtheback.com/products/contoursleep-side-sleeper-bed-wedge?_pos=2&_sid=3bb772ad3&_ss=blixtentoo

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@scoop

Hi @blixtentoo, Link below for wedge I use. In addition to wedge, we also put head of bed up on some blocks. Both of these together have helped my reflux. Honestly, the wedge alone was not enough. Now the sleeping angle is somewhere between 28-30 degrees. Those maneuvers (wedge and blocks) were an attempt by hubby to avoid purchasing an adjustable bed. That said, we do have an adjustable bed in guest room which I occasionally use for postural drainage.

It's sensible to know where the bronchiectasis is in your lungs so you can target that area with the correct PD position. Theoretically, your pulmonologist will review scan with you and point out the areas to focus on.

What I do is hoist up my hips with bent knees up on the wedge (or fully raised foot end of adjustable bed). This creates a slope for me when I lie down. Right side then left side. I do this after upright autogenic drainage (AD app) and lying down flat. It takes a lot of time especially in the morning. It's very much a drag and my hope is that some of the future medications will either 1) decrease the mucus and/or 2) help the mucus come up in less time. Hope springs eternal!

I've read that some also use inversion tables for postural drainage. Maybe that would hasten things? Some people use folded blankets on the floor to create a slope. It takes some fiddling to figure out what works for you. It seems to me that a simple collapsible cot like bed could be designed with a downward slope.
https://relaxtheback.com/products/contoursleep-side-sleeper-bed-wedge?_pos=2&_sid=3bb772ad3&_ss=blixtentoo

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Thanks so much for all of this information. I opened the link to the wedge and it looks like a good alternative to buying an expensive bed which I really cannot afford. I think my next step is to ask the pulmonologist to help me determine what positions I need to take in order to move the mucus. Take care and thank you again for your help!

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I tried postural drainage several times for about 10 minutes and nothing happened. How long does it take? I am discouraged because I only get white stringy mucous up sometimes with little white chunks.
I have only gotten the one viable sputum test out of 3 attempts.
I do autogenic drainage and the aerobika. All suggestions welcome.

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I was on Salbutamol, in Australia, because the other was too strong for me...but over the last 6 months I have given it away because of increasing problems with reflux. My sputum is loose and I don't appear to need the Salbutamol to be productive.

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@scoop

@lilianna It depends on the day if I use an albuterol inhaler or levalbuterol via nebulizer. They have both been effective for me. For sputum culture I try first thing in the morning after taking a glass of water and mucinex and the neb routine. Please keep in mind that I have had bronchiectasis for some time and have not tested positive for NTM etc so far. With airway clearance twice daily I am trying to keep it that way.

After watching Dr. Shane's video on airway clearance I have eliminated the aerobika during the saline neb, so inhaling directly into my lungs and not through the aerobika. So much better and the gunk comes up easier. In fact I have eliminated the aerobika from my routine altogether. (Amen one less item to clean/sterilize). Instead, I use well controlled breath holds and releases and postural drainage. After upright and lying down autogenic drainage, I position myself on my sleeping wedge on each side to create a downward slope for anymore gunk to drain. It takes a few breath holds, squeezes and the gunk moves down and out. I hope this helps you somehow.

If you continue to have issues with not being able to get a sample, how about trying 2 vials of saline in a row?

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I've also given up using the aerobika, much to the horror of my pulmonologist. When I was traveling in France two years ago I managed to melt the aerobika (don't ask!) and since they don't have those in France, I did some online searching and found many other ways to clear. Now I do postural drainage combined with controlled breathing and coughs, and that seems to do as good as job as the aerobika, and I don't have anything to clean other than the nebulizer.

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@marthamac

I have had success nebulizing 2 vials (4cc each) of 7% saline to increase what I cough up. To deal with the oropharyngeal contamination, I keep start with 2 glasses in front of me, one empty and one with sterile water. Before I cough each time, I rinse my mouth with the sterile water and spit in the other glass. This routine has gotten me acceptable samples. I was intimidated for a long time by the requirement for submitting at least 5 cc, but I found that if the sample was good quality, they would process a smaller sample.
Good luck!

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Great idea, I'll try it next time I need to provide a sputum sample. Thanks!

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@sallyb827

I tried postural drainage several times for about 10 minutes and nothing happened. How long does it take? I am discouraged because I only get white stringy mucous up sometimes with little white chunks.
I have only gotten the one viable sputum test out of 3 attempts.
I do autogenic drainage and the aerobika. All suggestions welcome.

Jump to this post

@sallyb827 The correct angle slope is important with postural drainage, and it depends where your bronchiectasis is. Morning works best for me as mucus has pooled overnight and there seems to be more of it then.

Some have success with their bottom part on a sofa and head/neck supported by a pillow on floor. Or stack blankets on the floor. Or use the foot of an adjustable bed. Or inversion table.

Experiment with lying on your left, right and back sides. Personally, I find active cycle of breathing easier to do when inverted as it's a bit quicker than AD. If mucus is really stubborn try 2 vials of 7% sodium chloride in nebulizer before postural drainage proceeded by a bronchodilator. Avoid eating/drinking 2 hours before inverting yourself especially if you have reflux. Hope this helps you. It's all so frustrating!
https://bronchiectasis.com.au/physiotherapy/techniques/the-active-cycle-of-breathing-technique

REPLY
@scoop

@sallyb827 The correct angle slope is important with postural drainage, and it depends where your bronchiectasis is. Morning works best for me as mucus has pooled overnight and there seems to be more of it then.

Some have success with their bottom part on a sofa and head/neck supported by a pillow on floor. Or stack blankets on the floor. Or use the foot of an adjustable bed. Or inversion table.

Experiment with lying on your left, right and back sides. Personally, I find active cycle of breathing easier to do when inverted as it's a bit quicker than AD. If mucus is really stubborn try 2 vials of 7% sodium chloride in nebulizer before postural drainage proceeded by a bronchodilator. Avoid eating/drinking 2 hours before inverting yourself especially if you have reflux. Hope this helps you. It's all so frustrating!
https://bronchiectasis.com.au/physiotherapy/techniques/the-active-cycle-of-breathing-technique

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Thanks for the suggestions. I do have an adjustable bed and raised to foot section so my upper body was lower. Since the concentration of my mucous is in the middle lobes, I lay Ed on each side for 10 minutes. I will try 2 vials of the 7 % and see, if that helps.

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I have to get my samples during a bronchoscopy.

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Sorry I can’t help you, but I’ll be happy to find a solution with you. I’m batting zero after 9 attempts and I have yet to find anyone who can definitively describe what an acceptable sputum sample looks like. I’ve wasted 4 months trying to determine what’s growing inside me. I’ll watch for an experienced response. Good luck to you.

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