1. < Prostate Cancer

Zero energy 3+ years after radiation and Firmagon for Stage 1 PC

Posted by mybeatles @mybeatles, Jan 16 6:24am

Early diagnosis of Stage 1 PC in 2019. Cancer cells in 3 areas as determined by "12 section" biopsy, but absolutely no tumor formation. A lucky guy to be sure, so no complaints. Treated with 8 weeks of targeted radiation, followed by 6 monthly injections of Firmagon to make double sure by eliminating testosterone production. I had been on Androgel for previous 15 years as 1/2 thyroid (not cancerous) removed in 2005, but had to stop the Androgel upon PC diagnosis. "T" level dropped to "0" within a few months and energy was gone. Post treatment I carefully researched foods and safe supplements to increase "T" without compromising the excellent success of the PC treatments, but the only thing that made any measurable improvement was/is Life Extension Testosterone Elite, a pomegranate and cacao supplement, which brought the "T" level up to the 150 range, where it has remained for 3 1/2 years, and I have no intention of ever stopping its use as it at least has given me a fighting chance. At the 3 year mark, with consistent PSA "0" blood levels, I was even cleared by my urologist and to return to Androgel use, but after 4 months "T" levels were sky high but did nothing to increase energy and also compromised liver and kidney function numbers, so I stopped using that pronto. My "numbers" have thankfully regulated back to previous levels. The one major issue that still remains is my debilitating fatigue, every day, every minute of every hour, with no relief no matter what I try. The low "T" is the most likely culprit as every other area of my bloodwork yields excellent results. I have always followed very careful diet parameters, with lots of energy producing components, get about 6 hours sleep, plus "drop of a hat" falling asleep on the couch in the late afternoon and/or early evening, continue to do some light weight training, long walks, etc, but at 71 and a former athlete my knee (6 surgeries since age 18 including replacement) and back issues have limited the exercises I can safely do. All I can do is push ahead, as I have always done, because I refuse to be beaten by this situation, but "Holy Crap" is it ever a challenge ! I gratefully welcome any suggestions from the group members, so here we go !

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Prostate Cancer Support Group.

mybeatles | @mybeatles | Jan 22 4:57am
In reply to @michael219 "I can understand what you are stating about low T and minimal to zero energy. In..." + (show)
@michael219

I can understand what you are stating about low T and minimal to zero energy. In early 2023, I had 29 Proton sessions followed by ADT/Orgovyx. Before my diagnosis, I was doing testosterone injections every two weeks and my level was approximately 770. Upon receiving my Dx, I immediately stopped the T injections and my level dropped to 55 within weeks. My most recent T levels have been < 16, despite being off the ADT pills since 8/31/23. Between the minimal T in my body and the ever-lingering effects of the Orgovyx, my energy has mostly remained very low, the hot flashes are still an everyday/evening occurrence. My RO has stated I am not to go back on TRT for 2+ years but this is a discussion we will have at my next appointment in April. Most recent PSA = 0.03% so that is not an issue.

Based on readings and input from others, it appears Western medicine is much more stringent on the use of TRT post-radiation or surgery than other parts of the world. Both my better half (a nurse) and I are convinced my low T is responsible for the low energy, zero libido and the fact that I am hot/cold, hot/cold (repeat.....) and I am chilly/cold so often.
I will definitely look at the Life Extension supplement you cite - I have already added others and B12 to try and jumpstart some energy and mental focus!

A question for you or others here: if TRT is "bad" for PC, how is it ok to take other supplements to naturally increase the T levels?

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Hi.

Regarding your question about using the supplement I use for my T level, the difference is that external "exogenous" T treatments: injections, gels, etc. are introducing T into your system, while the pomegranate and cacao based supplement I use is "endogenous" and only triggers one's body to produce its own T, a result that is dramatically safer than using an actual T product. However, many of the other T "booster supplements contain potentially dangerous ingredients and can lead to serious, or even deadly, consequences. Read some of the medical literature and their "warnings" on those T products.

REPLY
1 reply
mikewo | @mikewo | Jan 22 11:55am
In reply to @mybeatles "Thanks so much for your replay and your thorough account of your PC "adventure, My urologist..." + (show)
@mybeatles

Thanks so much for your replay and your thorough account of your PC "adventure,
My urologist and oncologist both of whom were top level docs, felt that after the radiation a six month course of Firmagon, a much shorter course of the drug than usual, would be the right strategy to make sure the PC was gone, and would provide me with very little chance for recurrence. Considering how quickly my PSA was undetectable, and how that has essentially continued for 3 1/2 years, I believe they were correct. Either way, I'm alive and able to fight my way through the energy loss every day, so I'm grateful for that.

I hope you stay well.

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Your 3 1/2 years of undetectable gives me hope that I stay the same. I hope our age also helps us statistically for a long life. Stay healthy.

REPLY
michael219 | @michael219 | Jan 22 11:57am
In reply to @mybeatles "Hi. Regarding your question about using the supplement I use for my T level, the difference..." + (show)
@mybeatles

Hi.

Regarding your question about using the supplement I use for my T level, the difference is that external "exogenous" T treatments: injections, gels, etc. are introducing T into your system, while the pomegranate and cacao based supplement I use is "endogenous" and only triggers one's body to produce its own T, a result that is dramatically safer than using an actual T product. However, many of the other T "booster supplements contain potentially dangerous ingredients and can lead to serious, or even deadly, consequences. Read some of the medical literature and their "warnings" on those T products.

Jump to this post

Good afternoon,
This is such a valuable discussion and I appreciate everyone's insight and sharing your personal experiences. Having been on TRT for 15+ years (Androgel, Testim, and then injections), my T level was 770 when I was diagnosed with PC. I immediately stopped the TRT and within a few weeks, my T level was 55. Perhaps I did not need the ADT but as I trusted my RO, I opted to go with his plan. My PSA when diagnosed was 2.82 and has been 0.03 post-Proton zaps (29) and three months of Orgovyx. As I've added some supplements my energy levels have improved and I can play Pickleball for 2-3 hours again (we'll see as the temperatures rise here in Florida), but my muscle strength and overall stamina is still much lower than before all of this. Thanks to 'mybeatles', I will try the Life Extension Testosterone Elite (my RO gave his ok) and I am also planning to start taking Thorne Hormone Advantage (formerly DIM Advantage) in an effort to offset the estrogen levels.
From the Thorne website:
Wellness Benefits for Men:
Enhances the level of testosterone
Supports prostate health
Promotes an optimal ratio of estrogen to testosterone
Men with excess estrogen can develop enlarged breast tissue or experience less than ideal erectile function. Hormone Advantage assists with reduction of estrogen receptor activation in areas of high receptor density, such as in breast and erectile tissue
Reducing excess estrogen aids in physical fitness, energy, and weight management

We (my better half and I) are very grateful for every day together and after I submit this reply I will be back planning trips/cruises for us!

REPLY
1 reply
mybeatles | @mybeatles | Jan 23 6:29am
In reply to @michael219 "Good afternoon, This is such a valuable discussion and I appreciate everyone's insight and sharing your..." + (show)
@michael219

Good afternoon,
This is such a valuable discussion and I appreciate everyone's insight and sharing your personal experiences. Having been on TRT for 15+ years (Androgel, Testim, and then injections), my T level was 770 when I was diagnosed with PC. I immediately stopped the TRT and within a few weeks, my T level was 55. Perhaps I did not need the ADT but as I trusted my RO, I opted to go with his plan. My PSA when diagnosed was 2.82 and has been 0.03 post-Proton zaps (29) and three months of Orgovyx. As I've added some supplements my energy levels have improved and I can play Pickleball for 2-3 hours again (we'll see as the temperatures rise here in Florida), but my muscle strength and overall stamina is still much lower than before all of this. Thanks to 'mybeatles', I will try the Life Extension Testosterone Elite (my RO gave his ok) and I am also planning to start taking Thorne Hormone Advantage (formerly DIM Advantage) in an effort to offset the estrogen levels.
From the Thorne website:
Wellness Benefits for Men:
Enhances the level of testosterone
Supports prostate health
Promotes an optimal ratio of estrogen to testosterone
Men with excess estrogen can develop enlarged breast tissue or experience less than ideal erectile function. Hormone Advantage assists with reduction of estrogen receptor activation in areas of high receptor density, such as in breast and erectile tissue
Reducing excess estrogen aids in physical fitness, energy, and weight management

We (my better half and I) are very grateful for every day together and after I submit this reply I will be back planning trips/cruises for us!

Jump to this post

Michael,

Just to let you, and the others, know that in the Life Extension Testosterone Elite in addition to the patented "Tesnor" pomegranate compound and the cacao ingredient there is also 275mg of "luteolin", a flower extract that has been proven to safely reduce the production of estrogen. That is quite beneficial when a man's system is being triggered to produce at least some testosterone. I see from your above discussion that the Thorne Hormone supplement apparently contains a similar ingredient to block estrogen, so perhaps you should wait a while before adding that product to your regimen as I have no idea if "too much" estrogen blocking can in any way be detrimental. Who knows, maybe the combination will work wonders, but I always like to pinpoint if, and which, particular supplement or food is making "the difference" before adding another item. I initially took the Testosterone Elite for almost six months before my next blood test and my "T" increased from just above 0 to 149. I continued in that range for two years before being cleared for a return to Androgel, which shot my "T" up to 850 within 4 months, while also unfortunately compromising my kidney, liver, and hemoglobin/hematocrit levels; not a good thing ! I immediately stopped the Androgel and have thankfully seen almost all of my compromised numbers return to their previous levels, with the exception of my liver enzymes, which seem to be taking their sweet time in being lowered, though they have dropped a bit. Besides adding a single square daily of Ghiradelli 72% Dark Chocolate and a few servings per week of asparagus, both proven to contribute to an increase of "T", and the recent addition of another Life Extension supplement: Pomegrante Extract (contains only pomegranate extract and in combination with the more complex Testosterone Elite puts me just a shade above the usual suggested max of 750mg for pomegranate extracts), I am not doing anything else at the moment. I stick to my light weight exercises, long walks, super careful diet which I've always eaten anyway, and just maintain my strongly positive attitude about my life, my family, my overall exceptionally good health, and of course, The Beatles !

I hope some of my thoughts can be helpful to you, and the others. Be well !!!

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