Survivors of toxic relationship with a Narcissist: Let's Connect

Posted by gardenchef @gardenchef, Jun 21 9:42am

I am looking for a support group for survivors of narcissistic abuse.

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Mental Health Support Group.

Yes, the book "It Is Not You" by Dr. Ramani is great! I highly recommend it. My therapist recommended it. I read it once and now reading it again. I also journal with all my notes, thoughts, memories. Another great author my therapist recommended was Dr. Les Carter. Both of these Doctors have websites and You Tubes that you can watch.
Dr. Ramani also has her Healing Program online that she charges for. It looks like a great program.

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To the issue of surviving relationships with a narcissist, my mother was definitely in that category and while I survived our relationship it was unavoidable and not without damage to me. So then, as life would have it, in old age I entered a relationship with a narcissist. He died recently and looking back, I think there were commonalities stemming from the fact that both were artists. My mom was a singer and my partner an art historian. How I made the latter relationship healthier for me was by limit setting. The downside of that was a lot of regrets about what I didn’t/couldn’t give in my relationship with him.

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@colleenyoung

@gardenchef, thank you for starting this discussion group for people who want to talk about and get support while coping with narcissistic abuse.

Not everyone with narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) will be abusive, but people who are abusive can cause significant harm to the people around them. This is sometimes called narcissistic abuse, which can be emotional, psychological, or physical.

@gardenchef @brandysparks @lakesofdelray @gingerw, how are you recovering from the abuse of a relationship with a narcissist? What helps?

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Knowing that I am his source of supply that fuels his behavior. Setting strong boundaries for myself and being fully conscious and aware when he crosses them. I have a list of 35 boundaries for narcissists that I am trying to attach. Can’t seem to do it.

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@gardenchef

Knowing that I am his source of supply that fuels his behavior. Setting strong boundaries for myself and being fully conscious and aware when he crosses them. I have a list of 35 boundaries for narcissists that I am trying to attach. Can’t seem to do it.

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@gardenchef, here's how to attach a document to one of your messages:
1. In the comment box, write a message.
2. Click "Add Photo/Files"
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5. Click "Post Comment."

Note that files must be less than 5 MB in size. Types of files that can be uploaded include: pptx, jpg, jpeg, jpe, png, gif, mp3, m4a, m4b, and pdf.

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@gardenchef

Knowing that I am his source of supply that fuels his behavior. Setting strong boundaries for myself and being fully conscious and aware when he crosses them. I have a list of 35 boundaries for narcissists that I am trying to attach. Can’t seem to do it.

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35 Phrases To Disarm a Narcissist and Why They Do the Trick
1. “I need you to listen to me.”
This is a basic need you should have met during any conversation, even one with a narcissist. Since narcissists “tend to have little to no empathy for fellow humans,” as Mahler puts it, the narcissist likely won’t be turning a listening ear your way and could use some reminding.
2. “Please stop interrupting me.”
Scigliano says that trying to have a rational conversation with a narcissist or reasoning with them is unrealistic, so you can wholeheartedly expect interruptions throughout your conversation. You’ll need to ask them to stop interrupting you.
3. “I am not comfortable with how you’re speaking to me.”
While a narcissist will say demeaning things to you, it’s also all about how they’re delivering those words. If they raise their voice and start having an angry tone, you can say that you’re not comfortable with how they’re speaking to you.
4. “I need you to not yell.”
For this phrase, Scigliano says that you want to keep in mind that your goal needs to be de-escalating the narcissist rather than risking the narcissist becoming further enraged. Although it may be impossible, try to get the narcissist to calm down and lower their voice.
5. “I am on your side.”
This phrase edges toward kindness, but if you really are on the narcissist’s side and genuinely want good things for them, say it. At the very least, a hint of kindness will catch the narcissist off-guard.
6. “I need you to stop.”
When attempting to communicate with a narcissist, it’s best to keep phrases short and to the point. Scigliano says that instead of being more open, you need to be more emotionally closed off from the narcissist. “Instead of sharing their feelings, they need to focus only on objective facts,” she says. One of these objective phrases that may put an end to a heated conversation is, “I need you to stop.”
7. “If you don’t stop, I’m going to walk away.”
And do just that. Scigliano says that ultimately, establishing boundaries and sticking to them is the most effective way to handle confrontations in the moment as well as avoid future ones.
8. “We can talk again when you can speak kindly to me.”
Since narcissism can cause a great deal of dysfunction in relationships, kindness may not something you come across very often. But you can remind the person to find it in themselves to speak kindly to you, especially if you’re a spouse or close friend.
9. “No.”
It’s as simple as that. “No” is a complete sentence, and it can immediately establish a clear boundary. It doesn’t go into detail. It doesn’t open you up for additional critical words. It’s the opposite of being vulnerable.
“Avoid making yourself emotionally vulnerable, because the narcissist will often take advantage of your vulnerability, now or sometime in the future,” Scigliano says.

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@gardenchef

35 Phrases To Disarm a Narcissist and Why They Do the Trick
1. “I need you to listen to me.”
This is a basic need you should have met during any conversation, even one with a narcissist. Since narcissists “tend to have little to no empathy for fellow humans,” as Mahler puts it, the narcissist likely won’t be turning a listening ear your way and could use some reminding.
2. “Please stop interrupting me.”
Scigliano says that trying to have a rational conversation with a narcissist or reasoning with them is unrealistic, so you can wholeheartedly expect interruptions throughout your conversation. You’ll need to ask them to stop interrupting you.
3. “I am not comfortable with how you’re speaking to me.”
While a narcissist will say demeaning things to you, it’s also all about how they’re delivering those words. If they raise their voice and start having an angry tone, you can say that you’re not comfortable with how they’re speaking to you.
4. “I need you to not yell.”
For this phrase, Scigliano says that you want to keep in mind that your goal needs to be de-escalating the narcissist rather than risking the narcissist becoming further enraged. Although it may be impossible, try to get the narcissist to calm down and lower their voice.
5. “I am on your side.”
This phrase edges toward kindness, but if you really are on the narcissist’s side and genuinely want good things for them, say it. At the very least, a hint of kindness will catch the narcissist off-guard.
6. “I need you to stop.”
When attempting to communicate with a narcissist, it’s best to keep phrases short and to the point. Scigliano says that instead of being more open, you need to be more emotionally closed off from the narcissist. “Instead of sharing their feelings, they need to focus only on objective facts,” she says. One of these objective phrases that may put an end to a heated conversation is, “I need you to stop.”
7. “If you don’t stop, I’m going to walk away.”
And do just that. Scigliano says that ultimately, establishing boundaries and sticking to them is the most effective way to handle confrontations in the moment as well as avoid future ones.
8. “We can talk again when you can speak kindly to me.”
Since narcissism can cause a great deal of dysfunction in relationships, kindness may not something you come across very often. But you can remind the person to find it in themselves to speak kindly to you, especially if you’re a spouse or close friend.
9. “No.”
It’s as simple as that. “No” is a complete sentence, and it can immediately establish a clear boundary. It doesn’t go into detail. It doesn’t open you up for additional critical words. It’s the opposite of being vulnerable.
“Avoid making yourself emotionally vulnerable, because the narcissist will often take advantage of your vulnerability, now or sometime in the future,” Scigliano says.

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10. “I hear what you’re saying.”
In a debate with a narcissist, all you have to do is acknowledge that you can hear their words. You don’t have to go out of your way to agree with them by any means.
11. “What is it you want me to know?”
This phrase can encourage some clear communication from the narcissist instead of shrouding it in insults and mean comments.
12. “What is it you want to hear from me?”
Again, this is a phrase that centers on communicating succinctly and clearly.
13. “You’re right.”
Before you gasp at this one, Scigliano says that you can say this without meaning that it’s true. If you say it calmly and evenly, it will absolutely disarm a narcissist, and they just might not know how to reply.
14. “What is really bothering you?”
Since narcissists go around with a viewpoint of “the world owes me,” as Mahler puts it, narcissists can often feel agitated and disgruntled with how they’re treated. Calmly, and genuinely, ask the person what is bothering them, and you may get to the bottom of things.
15. “I don’t deserve to be spoken to this way.”
This phrase is another one that establishes a defined boundary.

16. “I am not able to discuss this right now.”
This phrase will quickly put an end to an unpleasant conversation, and it will mean even more if you walk away immediately after saying it. Additionally, Mahler says that it’s key to use “I” statements as often as possible, which will be viewed as assertive and prioritizing your own needs.
17. “I have explained my point of view, and I am no longer willing to continue this conversation.”
If you feel you have said your peace and gotten out every word you wanted to say, put an end to the conversation with this phrase.
18. “I will be removing myself from this conversation if this discussion starts to lack civility.”
This is an effective phrase to use if you see the conversation starting to go off the rails. If the narcissist begins raising their voice or using unkind language, break out this phrase and they may rethink what they’re saying.
19. “This is what I am discussing and I will not be discussing anything else.”
Cool. Calm. Straightforward. Getting emotional is the quickest way to make the narcissist feel as if they have the upper hand. Say this phrase and simply stick to the facts.
20. “I have five minutes to discuss this, and after that, I will be ending this conversation.”

REPLY
@gardenchef

10. “I hear what you’re saying.”
In a debate with a narcissist, all you have to do is acknowledge that you can hear their words. You don’t have to go out of your way to agree with them by any means.
11. “What is it you want me to know?”
This phrase can encourage some clear communication from the narcissist instead of shrouding it in insults and mean comments.
12. “What is it you want to hear from me?”
Again, this is a phrase that centers on communicating succinctly and clearly.
13. “You’re right.”
Before you gasp at this one, Scigliano says that you can say this without meaning that it’s true. If you say it calmly and evenly, it will absolutely disarm a narcissist, and they just might not know how to reply.
14. “What is really bothering you?”
Since narcissists go around with a viewpoint of “the world owes me,” as Mahler puts it, narcissists can often feel agitated and disgruntled with how they’re treated. Calmly, and genuinely, ask the person what is bothering them, and you may get to the bottom of things.
15. “I don’t deserve to be spoken to this way.”
This phrase is another one that establishes a defined boundary.

16. “I am not able to discuss this right now.”
This phrase will quickly put an end to an unpleasant conversation, and it will mean even more if you walk away immediately after saying it. Additionally, Mahler says that it’s key to use “I” statements as often as possible, which will be viewed as assertive and prioritizing your own needs.
17. “I have explained my point of view, and I am no longer willing to continue this conversation.”
If you feel you have said your peace and gotten out every word you wanted to say, put an end to the conversation with this phrase.
18. “I will be removing myself from this conversation if this discussion starts to lack civility.”
This is an effective phrase to use if you see the conversation starting to go off the rails. If the narcissist begins raising their voice or using unkind language, break out this phrase and they may rethink what they’re saying.
19. “This is what I am discussing and I will not be discussing anything else.”
Cool. Calm. Straightforward. Getting emotional is the quickest way to make the narcissist feel as if they have the upper hand. Say this phrase and simply stick to the facts.
20. “I have five minutes to discuss this, and after that, I will be ending this conversation.”

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Since narcissists continually seek validation from their external environment, they may try to drag out a heated debate longer than they need to just for the enjoyment of feeling superior. Put a hard stop to this by timing the conversation. You can even set a timer on your phone and walk away as soon as five minutes are up.
21. “I know how I feel.”
The narcissist will try to gaslight you into thinking that your thoughts and emotions aren’t valid. Instead, back up your side of the argument by saying, “I know how I feel.”
22. “People misunderstanding my boundaries is not my responsibility.”
Mahler says that a person with NPD may purposefully break boundaries to gain a sense of power over another person. Don’t allow them to do this. It’s not your fault that the narcissist misunderstands or even disrespects your boundaries, and you can remind them of that.
23. “I am okay with people misunderstanding me.”
The narcissist is trying to get a rise out of you. Instead, you can shrug your shoulders and plainly say, “I am okay with people misunderstanding me.” Let them know that you’re good with who you are and don’t put stock in others’ opinions, especially if they’re coming from a narcissist.
24. “I am convicted in my truth about the situation.”
Stick to your guns and stand by everything you’ve said during the conversation.
25. “I am aware that we don’t share the same opinion.”
Not everyone has to share the same opinion, but this is a hard truth for a narcissist to swallow. Since they have low self-worth and derive their sense of value from external sources, as Mahler says, they want everyone to think the same things as them. Remind the person that there’s no reason for you both to have to share the same opinion.
26. “I will not entertain this conversation.”
Scigliano says that narcissists will use tactics that enable them to push away anyone they perceive as a threat, and this threat can come out as nasty comments during an exchange. Let them know that they won’t have this power over you and say, “I will not entertain this conversation.”
27. “I know what happened. You are allowed to have a different understanding of the event.”
Again, you may not both agree, and that’s fine.
28. “Okay.”
Mahler calls this approach the “Grey Rock Method,” which is not giving an emotional response at all or giving them as little a response as possible. Every time they say something, you could just say, “Okay.” They won’t know how to respond because they want to see you react.
29. “Hmm.”

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@gardenchef

Since narcissists continually seek validation from their external environment, they may try to drag out a heated debate longer than they need to just for the enjoyment of feeling superior. Put a hard stop to this by timing the conversation. You can even set a timer on your phone and walk away as soon as five minutes are up.
21. “I know how I feel.”
The narcissist will try to gaslight you into thinking that your thoughts and emotions aren’t valid. Instead, back up your side of the argument by saying, “I know how I feel.”
22. “People misunderstanding my boundaries is not my responsibility.”
Mahler says that a person with NPD may purposefully break boundaries to gain a sense of power over another person. Don’t allow them to do this. It’s not your fault that the narcissist misunderstands or even disrespects your boundaries, and you can remind them of that.
23. “I am okay with people misunderstanding me.”
The narcissist is trying to get a rise out of you. Instead, you can shrug your shoulders and plainly say, “I am okay with people misunderstanding me.” Let them know that you’re good with who you are and don’t put stock in others’ opinions, especially if they’re coming from a narcissist.
24. “I am convicted in my truth about the situation.”
Stick to your guns and stand by everything you’ve said during the conversation.
25. “I am aware that we don’t share the same opinion.”
Not everyone has to share the same opinion, but this is a hard truth for a narcissist to swallow. Since they have low self-worth and derive their sense of value from external sources, as Mahler says, they want everyone to think the same things as them. Remind the person that there’s no reason for you both to have to share the same opinion.
26. “I will not entertain this conversation.”
Scigliano says that narcissists will use tactics that enable them to push away anyone they perceive as a threat, and this threat can come out as nasty comments during an exchange. Let them know that they won’t have this power over you and say, “I will not entertain this conversation.”
27. “I know what happened. You are allowed to have a different understanding of the event.”
Again, you may not both agree, and that’s fine.
28. “Okay.”
Mahler calls this approach the “Grey Rock Method,” which is not giving an emotional response at all or giving them as little a response as possible. Every time they say something, you could just say, “Okay.” They won’t know how to respond because they want to see you react.
29. “Hmm.”

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Even just a sound or grunt under your breath is enough to disarm a narcissist, particularly since you’re not giving them a leg to stand on with a bunch of emotional words.
30. “Uh-huh.”
Sound disinterested even. During a heated conversation, you could interject an “uh-huh” here and there to appear as if you have better things to do, which will get under a narcissist’s skin.
31. “I can’t control how you feel about me.”
You can’t control others. You can only control yourself. This phrase reminds the narcissist of this universal truth, and you can remind yourself in the process.
32. “You are certainly entitled to your opinion.”
Mahler says that blame-shifting and deflection behaviors are rampant during confrontations with a narcissist, so remind the person that they can have their opinion, no matter how poorly it’s delivered.
33. “I am sorry you feel that way.”
Note: you are not apologizing for anything you’ve done, because you’ve done nothing wrong. You can say, “I am sorry you feel that way,” and walk away. The narcissist may even feel a pang of guilt after you say this.
34. “Thank you for your input.”
This is an emotion-free statement that doesn’t uphold anything the narcissist has said.
35. Say nothing at all.
Scigliano says, “From a safety perspective, consider the level of abuse that the narcissist is capable of inflicting. If they have ever indicated a propensity toward violence, you need to be extremely careful with what you say, and sometimes, saying nothing is safest.”

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@gardenchef

Even just a sound or grunt under your breath is enough to disarm a narcissist, particularly since you’re not giving them a leg to stand on with a bunch of emotional words.
30. “Uh-huh.”
Sound disinterested even. During a heated conversation, you could interject an “uh-huh” here and there to appear as if you have better things to do, which will get under a narcissist’s skin.
31. “I can’t control how you feel about me.”
You can’t control others. You can only control yourself. This phrase reminds the narcissist of this universal truth, and you can remind yourself in the process.
32. “You are certainly entitled to your opinion.”
Mahler says that blame-shifting and deflection behaviors are rampant during confrontations with a narcissist, so remind the person that they can have their opinion, no matter how poorly it’s delivered.
33. “I am sorry you feel that way.”
Note: you are not apologizing for anything you’ve done, because you’ve done nothing wrong. You can say, “I am sorry you feel that way,” and walk away. The narcissist may even feel a pang of guilt after you say this.
34. “Thank you for your input.”
This is an emotion-free statement that doesn’t uphold anything the narcissist has said.
35. Say nothing at all.
Scigliano says, “From a safety perspective, consider the level of abuse that the narcissist is capable of inflicting. If they have ever indicated a propensity toward violence, you need to be extremely careful with what you say, and sometimes, saying nothing is safest.”

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This is the only way I was able to share these 35 boundary phrases to disarm a Narcissist with this group. Had to copy and paste the 4 pages separately. Hope that you can see all of them in the 4 different comment pages.
Use the ones that will work for you.

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@gardenchef - Wow! Thank you so much for the thought & effort it took to make these available to us.

Unless I missed it, where did you find these helpful suggestions?

I also have to wonder how to protect oneself from the often dismissive, scoffing, belittling tones, and the nasty-chuckling that a narcissist can produce in response to someone trying to set boundaries and enter into a calm, "adult" discussion with them - especially when they (the narcissist) have absolutely NO INTEREST in giving any weight or validity to another's experience or ideas...which pretty much defines narcissists in general.

The belittling, and/or the knowledge (from past experience) that the belittling will likely accompany any attempt to suggest a different approach to something - is daunting. And the narcissists of whom I speak were expert at this.

I have much more (unfortunately) in the way of experience to share regarding growing up with narcissist parents, but I think one way to help each other is to share ways that have shown some success in interacting with these types of humans.

Also, though I haven't listened in for any duration for a while to his YouTube videos, I would like to heartily suggest checking out Jay Reid's series on Narcissism. http://www.jreidtherapy.com - I found his information a few years ago, and then began receiving links to his videos. Unless something has changed, this information is freely shared, and has been extremely helpful to me in the most basic way - putting into words what is commonly experienced by those of us having to grow up &/or live with narcissitic family members.

Seeing shared experiences in words, concise words that are so descriptive of the fundamental ways narcissists attack and the damage they create, coming from a psychotherapist (he's based out of the S.F. area), has gotten me through some tough times. Unfortunately, the pain of the lifelong experience of being around narcissists remains, and I find myself struggling with all of this in much deeper ways than I would have ever imagined at this late (mid-60s) stage of my life.

Still seeking a therapist experienced in helping Adult Children of Narcissists get beyond this prison before there is no longer any more time left. And, though this can lead to more anger than I care to unleash here, I do need to share how fundamentally it absolutely GALLS me that there is no accountability for this narcissistic behavior and the lives it has ruined. This places the burden on those of us who have lived it to try to ignore or reconcile this behavior, neither of which I'm sure are recommended for survivors (so far) of emotional abuse.

Welcome stories, additional links and shared strategies. Best to all who unfortunately find themselves in these situations, esp. if it is a family member, and they are in denial (of anything psychological), and thus unavailable for any hope of resolution.

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