The Paradox of Osteoporosis Irreversibility

Posted by JK @contentandwell, Jan 11 12:21pm

This is a very interesting article. It addresses the calcium and protein needs for bone maintenance. I increased my protein consumption a few months back when I first read that it was as important as calcium since our bones are half protein, but this article explains things fully and suggests the amount we should be consuming. I think many people are not aware of the amount of protein they need to be having.
http://blogs.creighton.edu/heaney/2014/07/25/the-paradox-of-osteoporosis-irreversibility-2/
JK

Thank you so much for this article. I have severe osteoporosis, but cannot take any of the medications that prevent bone loss (Fosamax, Boniva, etc) without having progressively painful side effects of severe joint and muscle pain. The paradox is that medications to rebuild bone are useless if one is unable to take these medications to maintain the bone gain when it is time to stop . My physician wanted me to start Prolia, but I declined when he could not answer what would be the next step to keep the bone afterwards. The consequences of increased bone fractures after stopping the bone-building pharmaceuticals is well-documented and I am only in my mid-sixties. If much older I may have considered the risk. I have calculated my calcium/protein goals for each day and will keep track starting today.

REPLY
@that_girl

Thank you so much for this article. I have severe osteoporosis, but cannot take any of the medications that prevent bone loss (Fosamax, Boniva, etc) without having progressively painful side effects of severe joint and muscle pain. The paradox is that medications to rebuild bone are useless if one is unable to take these medications to maintain the bone gain when it is time to stop . My physician wanted me to start Prolia, but I declined when he could not answer what would be the next step to keep the bone afterwards. The consequences of increased bone fractures after stopping the bone-building pharmaceuticals is well-documented and I am only in my mid-sixties. If much older I may have considered the risk. I have calculated my calcium/protein goals for each day and will keep track starting today.

Jump to this post

@that_girl I tried the natural approach for a year, increasing my protein and calcium, taking vitamins D, K and boron, eating some prunes (I can only do 2-3 a day without consequences), and getting plenty of exercise. Unfortunately, it did not help my osteoporosis, mine got worse. I am just about to start Tymlos. I realize that after a max of 2 years on that I will need to change to a bisphosphonate but it's something I need to do and hope I will not be part of that very small percentage with severe side-effects – 1 in 10,000 is the number I have heard. I am dreading it, but I also do not want to risk a serious fracture. I am exceedingly careful and living in NH that means not going out when it may be slippery at all after a storm but it's what I know I have to do.

I hope the natural approach will help you more than it did me. I posted the article primarily because I don't think that many people are aware of how important protein is in your diet to prevent and or help osteoporosis. Also, and not mentioned in this article, many people are not aware that to be absorbed calcium carbonate needs to be taken with food but calcium citrate does not.
JK

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@contentandwell
Hello,

Great article and this discussion has been around for quite some time. As the article stated, protein makes up 50% of the volume of bone and 1/3 of its mass. The issue seems to be animal protein vs plant protein and the benefits of each. Studies have suggested that an increase in protein along with an adequate intake of calcium can increase bone mass. There is a general agreement that protein intake should be higher than what is generally recommended, especially in older people. But that is still an issue being kicked around.

When you eat protein it is broken down into amino acids. However, different proteins can vary in the types of amino acids they have. Animal proteins are complex and tend to have a good balance of all the amino acids we need while some plant proteins are low in certain amino acids. The body can produce non essential amino acids but not all the essential amino acids in the right ratio.

People say a high consumption of red meat is detrimental to bone and health in general. However, it is not the red meat but the over consumption of processed meats that is detrimental to bone and can lead to heart disease. Red meat is not the culprit. Also, other nutrients such as Vitamin B12,Vit D, and zinc are found in animal proteins.

It sounds like I am rooting for eating lots of meat but I am rooting for increased intake of both animal and plant based foods…along with calcium, a healthy lifestyle, exercise and keeping the weight off. I eat organic meat and chicken along with my plant based foods but have decided to lean towards more animal protein. I had a pediatrician over 50 years ago who told me to eat meat and vegetables during my pregnancies…no carbs …..for healthy strong babies. So I did and only gained 13 lbs each time and gave birth to healthy babies. Haven’t thought about him in years.

By the way….anyone who takes an a collagen protein supplement (which is made up of amino acids) should take one that is animal based. But it should be from grass fed and pasture raised animals. This is my opinion as I am an organic girl. I know there are vegans who prefer a plant based supplement. I take the brand LiveWell every morning…just a scoop in my coffee and it dissolves and is tasteless. There are many collagen products out there now.

I had a dexascan 2 years ago and remain stable….last one was about 8 years before. I do have osteoporosis and was on bisphosphonates , one for about 5 years and stopped at the doctor’s request. My decision is not to take any more drugs.

Anyway, all these studies and case histories are interesting and should be read. Everyone has their point of view. I happen to think the increase of protein along with calcium is the way to go for me. I also take vit d3 and synergy K.

Time to make dinner and I really wish I had a steak now lol.

Stay healthy and safe everyone.

FL Mary

REPLY
@imallears

@contentandwell
Hello,

Great article and this discussion has been around for quite some time. As the article stated, protein makes up 50% of the volume of bone and 1/3 of its mass. The issue seems to be animal protein vs plant protein and the benefits of each. Studies have suggested that an increase in protein along with an adequate intake of calcium can increase bone mass. There is a general agreement that protein intake should be higher than what is generally recommended, especially in older people. But that is still an issue being kicked around.

When you eat protein it is broken down into amino acids. However, different proteins can vary in the types of amino acids they have. Animal proteins are complex and tend to have a good balance of all the amino acids we need while some plant proteins are low in certain amino acids. The body can produce non essential amino acids but not all the essential amino acids in the right ratio.

People say a high consumption of red meat is detrimental to bone and health in general. However, it is not the red meat but the over consumption of processed meats that is detrimental to bone and can lead to heart disease. Red meat is not the culprit. Also, other nutrients such as Vitamin B12,Vit D, and zinc are found in animal proteins.

It sounds like I am rooting for eating lots of meat but I am rooting for increased intake of both animal and plant based foods…along with calcium, a healthy lifestyle, exercise and keeping the weight off. I eat organic meat and chicken along with my plant based foods but have decided to lean towards more animal protein. I had a pediatrician over 50 years ago who told me to eat meat and vegetables during my pregnancies…no carbs …..for healthy strong babies. So I did and only gained 13 lbs each time and gave birth to healthy babies. Haven’t thought about him in years.

By the way….anyone who takes an a collagen protein supplement (which is made up of amino acids) should take one that is animal based. But it should be from grass fed and pasture raised animals. This is my opinion as I am an organic girl. I know there are vegans who prefer a plant based supplement. I take the brand LiveWell every morning…just a scoop in my coffee and it dissolves and is tasteless. There are many collagen products out there now.

I had a dexascan 2 years ago and remain stable….last one was about 8 years before. I do have osteoporosis and was on bisphosphonates , one for about 5 years and stopped at the doctor’s request. My decision is not to take any more drugs.

Anyway, all these studies and case histories are interesting and should be read. Everyone has their point of view. I happen to think the increase of protein along with calcium is the way to go for me. I also take vit d3 and synergy K.

Time to make dinner and I really wish I had a steak now lol.

Stay healthy and safe everyone.

FL Mary

Jump to this post

@imallears So many people just don't realize the importance of protein. I would actually like to be a little bit more plant-based, and I do eat beans occasionally, but the thought of tofu makes me gag. I made a stew with it once. My husband and I both agreed, it was delicious after we took those squares of tofu out.

The big problem with red meat of course is cholesterol. I keep meaning to ask my doctor if low-fat red meat is not too bad. When we have steak for dinner I buy tenderloin for myself and a strip for my husband – he has a terrible diet and is as healthy as a horse. When we have burgers I generally buy 92% lean. It's not as tasty but of course much better for you. We never have red meat more than once a week so these days I don't waste our red meat dinner on stews, etc. It's either steak or a juicy burger.

My DEXA last month was dismal despite doing all of the right things for the last year, except a medication. I guess I just can't fight the prednisone, but they have reduced my dose so hopefully that will help. I start Tymlos this week. The first month is going to cost almost $900 but we haven't been spending money on anything else and that's very important to me. I tried for copay assistance but the income cut-off was lower than our annual income.
JK

REPLY
@contentandwell

@imallears So many people just don't realize the importance of protein. I would actually like to be a little bit more plant-based, and I do eat beans occasionally, but the thought of tofu makes me gag. I made a stew with it once. My husband and I both agreed, it was delicious after we took those squares of tofu out.

The big problem with red meat of course is cholesterol. I keep meaning to ask my doctor if low-fat red meat is not too bad. When we have steak for dinner I buy tenderloin for myself and a strip for my husband – he has a terrible diet and is as healthy as a horse. When we have burgers I generally buy 92% lean. It's not as tasty but of course much better for you. We never have red meat more than once a week so these days I don't waste our red meat dinner on stews, etc. It's either steak or a juicy burger.

My DEXA last month was dismal despite doing all of the right things for the last year, except a medication. I guess I just can't fight the prednisone, but they have reduced my dose so hopefully that will help. I start Tymlos this week. The first month is going to cost almost $900 but we haven't been spending money on anything else and that's very important to me. I tried for copay assistance but the income cut-off was lower than our annual income.
JK

Jump to this post

@contentandwell, You may find it helpful to check out Tymlos through Optum Rx Specialty Pharmacy. I pay $100 per month. Good luck with this medication. I have not had side effects. Have 6 more months to go…..Let me know if I can help you.
Chris

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@artscaping

@contentandwell, You may find it helpful to check out Tymlos through Optum Rx Specialty Pharmacy. I pay $100 per month. Good luck with this medication. I have not had side effects. Have 6 more months to go…..Let me know if I can help you.
Chris

Jump to this post

Thanks, @artscaping. I am supposed to get it through the CVS Specialty pharmacy but I will check to see if my drug plan deals with Optus Rx.
JK

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@contentandwell

@imallears So many people just don't realize the importance of protein. I would actually like to be a little bit more plant-based, and I do eat beans occasionally, but the thought of tofu makes me gag. I made a stew with it once. My husband and I both agreed, it was delicious after we took those squares of tofu out.

The big problem with red meat of course is cholesterol. I keep meaning to ask my doctor if low-fat red meat is not too bad. When we have steak for dinner I buy tenderloin for myself and a strip for my husband – he has a terrible diet and is as healthy as a horse. When we have burgers I generally buy 92% lean. It's not as tasty but of course much better for you. We never have red meat more than once a week so these days I don't waste our red meat dinner on stews, etc. It's either steak or a juicy burger.

My DEXA last month was dismal despite doing all of the right things for the last year, except a medication. I guess I just can't fight the prednisone, but they have reduced my dose so hopefully that will help. I start Tymlos this week. The first month is going to cost almost $900 but we haven't been spending money on anything else and that's very important to me. I tried for copay assistance but the income cut-off was lower than our annual income.
JK

Jump to this post

@imallears and @contentandwell, I appreciated both your posts. As a stage 3 CKD patient and with too much protein showing up on labs, I am in somewhat of a dilemma too about what to do to stay at my best now that I've stopped Reclast.

With the kidney problem, I've restricted red meat but like you, JK, when I do opt for it, it has to be a looked forward to steak or 92% lean ground beef burger or taco. I've relied much more heavily on plant proteins since kidney diagnosis and was really disappointed when my PCP denied my request for an endocrinologist referral, saying that in addition to fish oil, and calcium, my multi-vitamin contained all the supplements I asked about.

JK, your cost for a month of Tylos is outrageous and so indicative of how the rampant increase in all medical costs are resulting in more and more unable to seek and receive the medical treatment needed. Hope you'll let us know how the Tymlos works for you.

REPLY
@contentandwell

@imallears So many people just don't realize the importance of protein. I would actually like to be a little bit more plant-based, and I do eat beans occasionally, but the thought of tofu makes me gag. I made a stew with it once. My husband and I both agreed, it was delicious after we took those squares of tofu out.

The big problem with red meat of course is cholesterol. I keep meaning to ask my doctor if low-fat red meat is not too bad. When we have steak for dinner I buy tenderloin for myself and a strip for my husband – he has a terrible diet and is as healthy as a horse. When we have burgers I generally buy 92% lean. It's not as tasty but of course much better for you. We never have red meat more than once a week so these days I don't waste our red meat dinner on stews, etc. It's either steak or a juicy burger.

My DEXA last month was dismal despite doing all of the right things for the last year, except a medication. I guess I just can't fight the prednisone, but they have reduced my dose so hopefully that will help. I start Tymlos this week. The first month is going to cost almost $900 but we haven't been spending money on anything else and that's very important to me. I tried for copay assistance but the income cut-off was lower than our annual income.
JK

Jump to this post

@contentandwell
I agree about tofu…never could make it palatable.
Grass fed beef has lower cholesterol and more omega 3 and less bad fats than regular beef. Lean is better but, as you said, not as tasty. I use grass fed bison for burgers which is very lean so I started to add a little breadcrumbs and more seasoning to each patty and it is very tender. I also found a recipe for bison meatloaf that I like that is very wet when you combine all the I ingredients but cooks up firm. I like the taste of bison. I also found that you can't cook lean meat as fast as fatty meat or at as high a temperature . Slower and lower heat seems to result in a better outcome.
I think once a week with a good quality grass fed meat would be fine and your doctor may okay it. I don't have any underlying health problems except for osteoporosis and my cholesterol is fine. But I also don't eat much red meat other than burgers mainly because grass fed is expensive. My daughter orders all grassfed beef, pork and chicken from Butcher Box. Their food is so good and the meat so juicy…I was surprised.
So everyone in a while I have a big fatty juicy grassfed tenderloin or pork chop when I get the urge. Life is too short to eat bad food as they say. My diet is healthy and I make sure it tastes good and looks good.
Good luck with the Tylmos…awful price for that.

Fl Mary

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