PA vs Dr doing Biopsy

Posted by dribbles @dribbles, 1 day ago

new here this am. Consult yesterday at Mayo. Surprised to hear the PA's do the Biopsy and remain the quarterback thru the Journey. I really liked the PA no problem there and the PA said I could have a Physician do it but any other experiences would be good to hear about. After reading other peoples stories my tumor seems small. It has a volume of .4 ml , had a Pi-rads score of 4, in left mid-gland peripheral zone.
Fusion perineal biopsy next week and I would prefer to do with no antibiotic to preserve my biome , PA wants to to do a 1 pill preventive antibiotic but I question that with less than half a % chance of infection . Has anyone else passed on the pre biopsy antibiotic ?

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Profile picture for heavyphil @heavyphil

@dribbles you are NOT going to wipe out your intestinal flora with a single 500 mg Cipro - no way.
The antibiotic is given to prevent bacteremia - a blood infection which is usually transient (if at all) after biopsy. However, transperineal biopsies have about a Zero chance of this since the bacteria laden rectum is avoided completely.
I had no antibiotic administered after my TP biopsy. The worst part was hurriedly ripping the Band Aid off my taint the next morning when I realized it was still there just before a BM…OUCH!!!
Phil

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@heavyphil
Thanks, not sure I'll even have a choice. I'll have the discussion with them prior on Weds. Your band aid story got a flinch out of me haha.

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Profile picture for brianjarvis @brianjarvis

@jc76 As I’ve posted before, I had 4 transrectal biopsies while I was on active surveillance (2012-2021) and had no infection-related or recovery issues (beyond what was advised - blood in stool, urine, and semen for differing periods of time). There were no surprises.

I took antibiotics exactly as prescribed; did the enema exactly as directed. Also discussed with the urologist about using as much lidocaine (or whatever the numbing agent is called) as was allowed The biopsies were relatively uneventful.

(As has been pointed out, risk of infection is much less with the transperineal method for obvious reasons.)

For my first transrectal biopsy, I drove myself there and back home. Yes, for my first experience it was quite unnerving, but not terribly traumatic (with enough Lidocaine!). For my fourth (& final) transrectal biopsy before receiving active treatment, I invited my wife to be in the room where the MRI-guided transrectal procedure was being done. I wanted her to see that it wasn’t as painful as she was imagining. She said ok; the urologist said ok. So she sat in the corner of the room (towards my head) during the entire procedure.

(Surprisingly, in this 2015 paper, there were higher incidences of needle-tract seeding identified with transperineal prostate biopsies than with transrectal: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24958224/)

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@brianjarvis
You did active surveillance for 9 years ?
Did you have a few lesions and at first biopsy they were a Gleason 6 or negative ? What was found on your last biopsy to move to treatment ?

I go for for my first biopsy in a few days.

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Profile picture for jc76 @jc76

@brianjarvis
My hat is off to you. You have much stronger mental ability with things like this than I. I also did not want the extra 2% increase in infection. I have read post from posters that did get the infection from transrectal and although rare just not something I wanted to chance.

I came down in 2015 with diagnosed PTSD that evolved into anxiety/panic disorder. It was caused by several traumatic events in my life and won't take up space with typing them.

So with me I try to do whatever is less stressful for me in life. I was already dealing with the stress of PC so I chose the less stressful as possible with biopsies options. We are all different and have to do what is best for us like you did also.

Your medical providers are the only ones who have your medical and mental health history and also can guide you. My wife cannot even help me with band aids as she too has been diagnosed with anxiety/panic disorder. She would have laughed at me if ever suggested being in room with any surgical procedure.

Again I applaud you for your ability both physically and mentally.

When I had the Markers and Space/Oar done it was done transperineally but without anesthesia. They (UFHPTI) gave me a sedative, laughing gas, and Lanicane to area so had no pain. But the procedure for me was very stressful and I sucked on that laughing gas as much as possible. Even with this procedure they did a smear to determine which antibiotic to do and was not transrectal.

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@jc76 In my case, I deal with stress by immersing myself in whatever the situation is - whether it was the death of my parents (with me being the executor in each instance); whether it was a situation in my community (when I was mayor of my city); or in this case with my prostate cancer diagnosis (with me being the one impacted).

So, when I was diagnosed with prostate cancer I dived headlong into investigative mode, using my doctors’ inputs as another source of information - and me becoming a “student of prostate cancer” - because in the end that would serve me the best.

My view of my medical providers is a bit different. I always keep in mind that doctors (and medical teams) are human beings, not gods; they’re just people like you and me. They are working in an occupation they have an aptitude and passion for; but, they’re not perfect; they’re human, with human frailties; they sometimes make errors. (No different than you or I who were very good in our individual careers and the teams we worked with, but we weren’t perfect.) They have lives to live, spouses, families, bills to pay, and vacations to take, student loans to pay off, and on and on and on…… And, they’re not always right; no one doctor knows everything (even the ones who have my medical records and know my history); they only know as much as they’ve learned and experienced. Whatever they say, I accept it with some cautious and informed skepticism (and optimism).

As for my wife — much of my time has been spent maintaining normalcy for her and myself, and insulating her from the continuous grind - physical and mental - of test-after-test-after-test. I keep her informed - at a very high level - as to what’s going on. But, I generally avoid the gory details unless she asks.

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My husband had 2 TP biopsies, both time he got antibiotic - no problems with biome than or any other time taking antibiotics. I am presently taking antibiotics (2 weeks), biome intact 100%. BUT, if you do have sensitive guts and biome, make sure to take probiotics couple of weeks before biopsy and than for couple of weeks post biopsy , inclooding fermented products.

Wishing you uneventful biopsy and very good pathology results !

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Profile picture for indyguy @indyguy

@brianjarvis
You did active surveillance for 9 years ?
Did you have a few lesions and at first biopsy they were a Gleason 6 or negative ? What was found on your last biopsy to move to treatment ?

I go for for my first biopsy in a few days.

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@indyguy Yes. Despite my urologist’s recommendation to have surgery, with a localized, 6(3+3), PSA of 4.2, there was no medical necessity to treat.

I had 2 lesions, both 3+3, one on either side of my prostate. Since it was only a 3+3, there was no need to panic or rush to a hasty treatment decision; I had time on my side and chose active surveillance (AS).

I was on AS for 9 years, which bought me time to get referrals, evaluate all available treatment modalities, and take advantage of medical and technological advances, so that if/when the time ever came to make a treatment decision (which it eventually did), I’d be ready to pull the trigger (so to speak).

But, I made a commitment that should (1) my Gleason ever reach 7, or (2) my PSA ever reach 10, or (3) a biomarker test ever return unfavorable results, that I would then seek active treatment.

Eventually, my Gleason reached 7(3+4), and a Prolaris biomarker test indicated that I had “exceeded the threshold for active surveillance.” (PSA was only 7.976.) That Gleason score and the unfavorable biomarker result were my cues to leave AS and seek active treatment.

What were your MRI results that led to you getting a biopsy?

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Profile picture for brianjarvis @brianjarvis

@indyguy Yes. Despite my urologist’s recommendation to have surgery, with a localized, 6(3+3), PSA of 4.2, there was no medical necessity to treat.

I had 2 lesions, both 3+3, one on either side of my prostate. Since it was only a 3+3, there was no need to panic or rush to a hasty treatment decision; I had time on my side and chose active surveillance (AS).

I was on AS for 9 years, which bought me time to get referrals, evaluate all available treatment modalities, and take advantage of medical and technological advances, so that if/when the time ever came to make a treatment decision (which it eventually did), I’d be ready to pull the trigger (so to speak).

But, I made a commitment that should (1) my Gleason ever reach 7, or (2) my PSA ever reach 10, or (3) a biomarker test ever return unfavorable results, that I would then seek active treatment.

Eventually, my Gleason reached 7(3+4), and a Prolaris biomarker test indicated that I had “exceeded the threshold for active surveillance.” (PSA was only 7.976.) That Gleason score and the unfavorable biomarker result were my cues to leave AS and seek active treatment.

What were your MRI results that led to you getting a biopsy?

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@brianjarvis
Thanks for sharing. How are you doing now ?

Here is my MRI report :

T2: 1.2 cm mild hypointensity is predominantly encapsulated
DWI: Moderate diffusion restriction
PIRADS: 3
Location: Right lateral transition zone of the mid gland
Prostate Volume: 172 cc.
There are multiple circumscribed and encapsulated benign prostatic
hyperplasia nodules in the transition zone (PIRADS 2).
Lesion #1:
Location: Right lateral transition zone of the mid gland (series 501 image
14)
T2: 1.2 cm mild hypointensity is predominantly encapsulated
DWI: Moderate diffusion restriction
PIRADS: 3
IMPRESSION:
PI-RADS : 3 Atypical BPH nodule with diffusion restrictions in the right transition zone

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