Neuropathy: Numbness only, no pain

Posted by John, Volunteer Mentor @johnbishop, Sep 10, 2020

When I was first diagnosed with idiopathic small fiber peripheral neuropathy and numbness was my only symptom, my neurologist told me that I am one of the "lucky" few who didn't also have pain and other associated symptoms of neuropathy. I knew there were others out there but yesterday I met my first member on Connect who has a similar diagnosis. I want to thank that member for joining Mayo Clinic Connect and sending me a private message that I would like to answer here to start this discussion.

Hello @afirefly, Welcome to Connect. You mentioned being diagnosed with large fiber demyelinating predominately sensory peripheral neuropathy at Mayo Clinic. The neurologist's recommendation was exercise and balance exercises. Your symptoms are less than one year and are primarily progressive loss of sensation in your hands and feet. You also said aside from occasional muscle cramps in your calves and dyesthesias in hands and feet, you experience little discomfort. Your greatest concern now is the degree of disability you will have as the numbness progresses.

I can tell you that we think a lot alike. When I walked out of the neurologists office with similar symptoms of just numbness in the feet and lower legs with no pain – and no recommendations for treatment, I was pretty down. I was told to let them know as the condition progressed and my biggest fear at the time was not being able to drive myself. That's when I started doing my own research and found Mayo Clinic Connect after being diagnosed with idiopathic small fiber PN.

You have some really good and thoughtful questions which I will try to answer the best I can.

Question: Although you have improved on the Protocol, did you ever have complete loss of sensation in your feet? I ask because I truly dread the possibility of total sensory loss in my feet.

Answer: I never had a complete loss of sensation in my feet. At the worst, they felt numb and sometimes tingly but not painful, just uncomfortable. They mostly always feel cold and after being diagnosed with lymphedema I have to wear compression socks which doesn't help the numbness feeling. I have noticed that it seems like I've had some feeling returning ever so often when I'm exercising on my crossfit exercise bike. I use it several times a day for 30 to 45 minutes when I can to build up leg and arm strength. I recently purchased a device called a Sand Dune Stepper to work on my balance issues. I do think it helps and I've noticed a little more feeling in the bottom of my feet – if that makes sense for numb feet. Website – https://www.sanddunestepper.com/
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Question: Assuming you have little or no sensation in your toes and the soles of your feet, are you still able to drive a car?
If yes, would you kindly tell me what maneuvers/measures you have used over the years to compensate for the absence of feeling in your feet while driving?

Answer: I am still able to drive a car. The numbness was always a concern in my mind but never kept me from feeling the pressure of placing my feet on the pedals and pushing them down or letting them up.
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Question: Assuming you have little or no sensation in your toes and the soles of your feet, how difficult is it for you to walk? Before my neuropathy, if my foot was in a position too long it would "go to sleep" from lack of circulation to the nerves. The sensation would return seconds later once I changed my foot position. However, I don't believe I would have been able to walk on that sleeping foot until the circulation had been restored. Please tell me if there are/were any maneuvers/measures you have used over the years to compensate for the absence of feeling in your feet while walking.

Answer: When I was in my late 40s, my wife would sometimes tell me that I walk like an old man and now I am one and still walking the same. I've always been slow getting up and slow to take the first steps when walking. I guess I would call it trying to be careful because I wasn't sure of my footing. I think recognizing that your feet may not be as steady is a good thing and keeps you alert when walking. I struggle with walking any distance due to lower back issues. I recently had some physical therapy to learn some back and stomach muscle strengthing exercises which has helped some. Now I just have to execute a plan to do them often.
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Question: You indicated that the cost of the old Protocol was under $10/day (prior to 525 Protocol) several years ago and that the current 525 Protocol is $6.44/day. Does that mean Protocol 525 these days costs somewhat less than the old (original) Protocol?

Answer: Each item in the original protocol lasted a different number of days so the cost was more spread out and roughly calculated at under $10/day. The new 525 Protocol is a 30 day supply for $6.44/day ($193.20). It's also fewer pills to swallow which I really like. The Ramp up version is different due to the R-ALA in the regular 30 day supply. The daily R-ALA dosage is 1200 mg which causes some people to have stomach problems so the ramp up is to gradually increase the dosage to get use to the higher amount. I never had an issue because I was already taking supplements for the PN from my research and was taking that amount of ALA before I found the original protocol. Related discussion — Have you tried the new Protocol 525 product for neuropathy relief?: https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/have-you-tried-the-new-protocol-525-product-for-neuropathy-relief/
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Question: Do you use orthotics or inserts in your shoes? Special shoes?

Answer: I've tried some orthotics and different inserts but don't always use them. I found some felt/wool inserts that I like during the winter time as an extra cushion. I do like Sketchers because of the memory foam cushion and comfort. I used to wear the canvas shell ones but my neurologist told me it would be best to wear shoes with good side support for walking. So, I try to choose slip-ons with good side support made out of leather. There is another discussion on Connect you might find helpful for shoes – If the shoe fits…right?: https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/if-the-shoe-fits-right/
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Question: Besides daily foot exams, lotion to your feet, and avoiding barefoot walking, are there any other measures you use to protect your numb feet?

Answer: For me, this all started with a trip to the ER after waking up one night to go to the bathroom and when reaching the bathroom seeing blood all over the floor and trying to figure out where it's coming from. Surprised was I to see it pumping in a small stream from my ankle. Long story short, I unconciously rubbed my feet during the night and I had a hang nail on my big toe which tore the skin and part of a vein close to the surface. After that episode, I always wear white short loose socks to bed and I apply lotion to my feet and legs to keep them moisturized. I think that also helps with the healing process when you think that there are tiny sensory nerves just under the skin and it helps to keep the skin moist to protect them.

Hope this helps…let me know if I missed anything or if you have any other questions. We have a great group of members with a lot of experience here on Connect.

John

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Neuropathy Support Group.

@rca

I regret saying anything to this group. Each person is different. I am glad I had the surgeries and I was then pain free.
The numbness was there before the surgeries and it depends how long the nerve has been squeezed. I no longer want to be on this group, it creates much stress and don't share anything with me again. Each one of us has control with do what we went given all the issues and consults with NS. Th

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@rca - So sorry the email notifications from this discussion are causing you stress. You are so right that each of us are different and have to do what's best for our own health. You can easily stop notifications from this discussion by scrolling to the top and clicking the bell icon at the bottom right of the discussion description. Then select the option to mute the discussion. See the image below.

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@njed

@rca I' ve had about 3 MRI's since 2014 and after each one, docs agree I have spinal stenosis in the L-4 to S-1 area but 2 top neurosurgeons in my area refuse to do lower back surgery. Insist it will not help. Each case js different. With surgery out I exercise the best I can and CBD cream helps out with lower back pain.

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Review your MRI's with a laminectomy specialist. The longer you allow the stenosis to prevail, the more likely you will have nerve damage where the stenosis aggravates the nerve. Once the nerve damage occurs, there is little recovery chance for the nerve.

I had similar problem and waited way too long, until I found a laminectomy specialist that performed a triple laminectomy to free up the nerve and clean out the stenosis debris. The surgery was simple...at an outpatient surgery center. That was about 3 years ago and the major issues of leg muscle atrophy and drop foot stopped. I continue to work on trying to encourage the nerve recovery to end the numbness and night tingling in my feet.

Good luck

Tom

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@tomkipp - Tom - Thanks and excellent advice. Ed

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@tomkipp

Review your MRI's with a laminectomy specialist. The longer you allow the stenosis to prevail, the more likely you will have nerve damage where the stenosis aggravates the nerve. Once the nerve damage occurs, there is little recovery chance for the nerve.

I had similar problem and waited way too long, until I found a laminectomy specialist that performed a triple laminectomy to free up the nerve and clean out the stenosis debris. The surgery was simple...at an outpatient surgery center. That was about 3 years ago and the major issues of leg muscle atrophy and drop foot stopped. I continue to work on trying to encourage the nerve recovery to end the numbness and night tingling in my feet.

Good luck

Tom

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Hi, Tom (@tomkipp)

I read your post with special interest. I have sensory-motor PN: poor balance, and gait problems, but no pain. I do experience leg weakness and the trace of drop-foot I had some 15 years ago. You mention in your post that as a result of your triple laminectomy, your " … major issues of leg muscle atrophy and drop foot stopped." Reading that made my eyes pop! I have cervical stenosis, but the neurosurgeon pronounced it "borderline" (surgery was up to me) but warned that if I opted for surgery, the surgery might have no effect on my PN. But your post has me thinking. May I ask what sort of stenosis you had? The surgeon seemed to be of the opinion that my cervical discs were too remote from my lower body issues to be the PN villain. But now I'm wondering …

Ray (@ray666)

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@ray666

Hi, Tom (@tomkipp)

I read your post with special interest. I have sensory-motor PN: poor balance, and gait problems, but no pain. I do experience leg weakness and the trace of drop-foot I had some 15 years ago. You mention in your post that as a result of your triple laminectomy, your " … major issues of leg muscle atrophy and drop foot stopped." Reading that made my eyes pop! I have cervical stenosis, but the neurosurgeon pronounced it "borderline" (surgery was up to me) but warned that if I opted for surgery, the surgery might have no effect on my PN. But your post has me thinking. May I ask what sort of stenosis you had? The surgeon seemed to be of the opinion that my cervical discs were too remote from my lower body issues to be the PN villain. But now I'm wondering …

Ray (@ray666)

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Hi Ray
Sorry, but that’s above my pay grade. They only described it as stenosis. I too had a “back” doctor assess the mri and he laid out a very elaborate surgery plan. I was not happy about his assessment . The laminectomy surgeon was much more straight forward about what he saw and how removal of the lamin would provide relief.

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@chinarose

I have numbness in my feet and calves, but never pain with my neuropathy, and that's a blessing. Originally started with just the toes and part of my feet, but it has progressed up to the top of my knees now after 25 years. Nothing I have taken has caused nerve sensation to return even though medical literature says non-spinal canal nerves can frequently regenerate. I took no treatment or meds for probably 20 years, then took Gabapentin for 5-6 years, and now I'm on Pregabalin 50mg for about 1 year because Gabapentin made me sleepy. Of course, I have a balance issue while walking or standing due to the lack of sensation in my feet. I'm 79 years old, walk 3 miles everyday, and find that walking at a fast pace greatly improves my balance (only during the walk). I'm interested in finding something that will improve the numbness so as to avoid accidental, undetected injury to my feet and legs.

Ray

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Follow-up comment --
No improvement in my PN, but still no pain, thankfully. My new issue is that I developed a sudden instance of footdrop in my left foot while walking about a month ago. I fell, but caught myself on a fence alongside the trail I was walking on before I could hit the ground. However, progressive OA in my hips and knees has caused considerable difficulty in walking the speed I am used to. So much so that the new left foot side footdrop suddenly 'grabbed me' and caused me to fall again, this time with no fence alongside. I did a knee/hand plant on the concrete trail, leaving considerable skin and other tissue on it instead of on my body where it rightfully belonged... I had done home PT to resolve the footdrop in my right foot enough that I no longer had to fear falling while walking. I've improved my left-foot footdrop through some home PT, but I'm concerned that the footdrop in both feet may be related to my PN. The result of all this is that, while still walking everyday, I have slowed my walking pace down by about 20%, which gives me more time to recover from catching my toes if footdrop recurs while walking. None of my PN has improved, possibly moving even further up around my knees. My doctor recommended MRI's of my cervical spine and sacrolumbar spine a couple of months ago, but my insurance company declined to approve them even though I've previously been diagnosed with moderate/severe stenosis of C2/C3 and L2/L3. Currently gathering justification from my doctor to reschd the MRI's. Even with the MRI's, I don't anticipate significant improvement in my PN. I'm still able to drive by feeling the pressure in my foot. Worst change is that when arising from a sitting position, I have considerable imbalance and fear that I'll fall before I can gain a sense of balance, and I have pitched forward into a nearby chair once while getting up - very disturbing. I hope everyone can find some relief to their PN and are able to convey how they improved to those of us on this forum.

Ray

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Hi Sue @sueholdenf, I saw your post in the Does anyone find that a type of shoe helps your foot neuropathy? discussion (https://connect.mayoclinic.org/comment/952323/) and thought I would reply in this discussion related to your question. If you click the link below it will take you to the beginning of the discussion where you can read what others have shared:
--- Neuropathy: Numbness only, no pain: https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/neuropathy-numbness-only-no-pain/.

I'm so sorry to hear that the walking problem occurred overnight. Mine has developed over quite a few years but my wife has told me I walk like an old man since I was in my 50s. Now I'm 80 and really walk like an old man. I do use a walker at night at night that I keep by my bed for my midnight trips. I don't need it during the day but I'm really unstable when I have to get up in the middle of the night so I keep a walker next to my bed.

Since my feet are numb the one thing I do daily is to keep my legs and feet moisturized with a lotion and I wear socks at night. I also try to exercise some everyday to keep the leg strength up. You mentioned you can't walk without assistance. Do you use a walker or a cane for support? Also, have you looked into any kind of physical therapy to help with walking and balance?

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To John Bishop. I noticed that you participated in a study for a drug called Pirenzepine. Has there been any information out there yet that it works for chemo induced neuropathy? If you did participate did you find if worked at all or even some what on numbness caused by this condition. Thanks

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@tessie63

To John Bishop. I noticed that you participated in a study for a drug called Pirenzepine. Has there been any information out there yet that it works for chemo induced neuropathy? If you did participate did you find if worked at all or even some what on numbness caused by this condition. Thanks

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Hi @tessie63, I've posted links to the Pirenzepine (WinSantor) study but I have not participated in the clinical trial. As far as I know phase 1 and 2 trials are complete and they were only for diabetic neuropathy. Phase 3 is is underway now according to their website - http://winsantor.com/pipeline/.

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