Neuropathy: Numbness only, no pain

Posted by John, Volunteer Mentor @johnbishop, Sep 10, 2020

When I was first diagnosed with idiopathic small fiber peripheral neuropathy and numbness was my only symptom, my neurologist told me that I am one of the "lucky" few who didn't also have pain and other associated symptoms of neuropathy. I knew there were others out there but yesterday I met my first member on Connect who has a similar diagnosis. I want to thank that member for joining Mayo Clinic Connect and sending me a private message that I would like to answer here to start this discussion.

Hello @afirefly, Welcome to Connect. You mentioned being diagnosed with large fiber demyelinating predominately sensory peripheral neuropathy at Mayo Clinic. The neurologist's recommendation was exercise and balance exercises. Your symptoms are less than one year and are primarily progressive loss of sensation in your hands and feet. You also said aside from occasional muscle cramps in your calves and dyesthesias in hands and feet, you experience little discomfort. Your greatest concern now is the degree of disability you will have as the numbness progresses.

I can tell you that we think a lot alike. When I walked out of the neurologists office with similar symptoms of just numbness in the feet and lower legs with no pain – and no recommendations for treatment, I was pretty down. I was told to let them know as the condition progressed and my biggest fear at the time was not being able to drive myself. That's when I started doing my own research and found Mayo Clinic Connect after being diagnosed with idiopathic small fiber PN.

You have some really good and thoughtful questions which I will try to answer the best I can.

Question: Although you have improved on the Protocol, did you ever have complete loss of sensation in your feet? I ask because I truly dread the possibility of total sensory loss in my feet.

Answer: I never had a complete loss of sensation in my feet. At the worst, they felt numb and sometimes tingly but not painful, just uncomfortable. They mostly always feel cold and after being diagnosed with lymphedema I have to wear compression socks which doesn't help the numbness feeling. I have noticed that it seems like I've had some feeling returning ever so often when I'm exercising on my crossfit exercise bike. I use it several times a day for 30 to 45 minutes when I can to build up leg and arm strength. I recently purchased a device called a Sand Dune Stepper to work on my balance issues. I do think it helps and I've noticed a little more feeling in the bottom of my feet – if that makes sense for numb feet. Website – https://www.sanddunestepper.com/
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Question: Assuming you have little or no sensation in your toes and the soles of your feet, are you still able to drive a car?
If yes, would you kindly tell me what maneuvers/measures you have used over the years to compensate for the absence of feeling in your feet while driving?

Answer: I am still able to drive a car. The numbness was always a concern in my mind but never kept me from feeling the pressure of placing my feet on the pedals and pushing them down or letting them up.
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Question: Assuming you have little or no sensation in your toes and the soles of your feet, how difficult is it for you to walk? Before my neuropathy, if my foot was in a position too long it would "go to sleep" from lack of circulation to the nerves. The sensation would return seconds later once I changed my foot position. However, I don't believe I would have been able to walk on that sleeping foot until the circulation had been restored. Please tell me if there are/were any maneuvers/measures you have used over the years to compensate for the absence of feeling in your feet while walking.

Answer: When I was in my late 40s, my wife would sometimes tell me that I walk like an old man and now I am one and still walking the same. I've always been slow getting up and slow to take the first steps when walking. I guess I would call it trying to be careful because I wasn't sure of my footing. I think recognizing that your feet may not be as steady is a good thing and keeps you alert when walking. I struggle with walking any distance due to lower back issues. I recently had some physical therapy to learn some back and stomach muscle strengthing exercises which has helped some. Now I just have to execute a plan to do them often.
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Question: You indicated that the cost of the old Protocol was under $10/day (prior to 525 Protocol) several years ago and that the current 525 Protocol is $6.44/day. Does that mean Protocol 525 these days costs somewhat less than the old (original) Protocol?

Answer: Each item in the original protocol lasted a different number of days so the cost was more spread out and roughly calculated at under $10/day. The new 525 Protocol is a 30 day supply for $6.44/day ($193.20). It's also fewer pills to swallow which I really like. The Ramp up version is different due to the R-ALA in the regular 30 day supply. The daily R-ALA dosage is 1200 mg which causes some people to have stomach problems so the ramp up is to gradually increase the dosage to get use to the higher amount. I never had an issue because I was already taking supplements for the PN from my research and was taking that amount of ALA before I found the original protocol. Related discussion — Have you tried the new Protocol 525 product for neuropathy relief?: https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/have-you-tried-the-new-protocol-525-product-for-neuropathy-relief/
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Question: Do you use orthotics or inserts in your shoes? Special shoes?

Answer: I've tried some orthotics and different inserts but don't always use them. I found some felt/wool inserts that I like during the winter time as an extra cushion. I do like Sketchers because of the memory foam cushion and comfort. I used to wear the canvas shell ones but my neurologist told me it would be best to wear shoes with good side support for walking. So, I try to choose slip-ons with good side support made out of leather. There is another discussion on Connect you might find helpful for shoes – If the shoe fits…right?: https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/if-the-shoe-fits-right/
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Question: Besides daily foot exams, lotion to your feet, and avoiding barefoot walking, are there any other measures you use to protect your numb feet?

Answer: For me, this all started with a trip to the ER after waking up one night to go to the bathroom and when reaching the bathroom seeing blood all over the floor and trying to figure out where it's coming from. Surprised was I to see it pumping in a small stream from my ankle. Long story short, I unconciously rubbed my feet during the night and I had a hang nail on my big toe which tore the skin and part of a vein close to the surface. After that episode, I always wear white short loose socks to bed and I apply lotion to my feet and legs to keep them moisturized. I think that also helps with the healing process when you think that there are tiny sensory nerves just under the skin and it helps to keep the skin moist to protect them.

Hope this helps…let me know if I missed anything or if you have any other questions. We have a great group of members with a lot of experience here on Connect.

John

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Neuropathy Support Group.

@njed

The 20% with no pain and only numbness also seems to me a little high, I thought it would be in the 10% to 15% area. Another odd thing I've found is just about every health professional I've been to, the number one question I'm asked is...you're a diabetic, right? When I say no, I get this hmmm. My A1C is in the 5.8 area and blood sugar tests are normal. My wife is on an insulin pump, so I keep an eye on things. One neurologist said to me that she thought I was a diabetic. My guess was her observation of my symptoms. I don't know which is worse, having a cause, a reason, for my PN or being idiopathic. Problem is, being idiopathic, one seems to be looking for the cause. It's our nature to want to know.

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There are other causes for neuropathy besides diabetes. I have it because of chemo treatment for breast cancer five years ago.

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Thanks for your informative posts John. Someone was concerned about what caused their neuropathy. Mine was caused by the seizure medications Dilantin and phenobarbital which I took with other seizure medicines and who knows maybe the other medications contributed to it. But it doesn’t do any good worrying about a cause.
I wear New Balance 1540v3, 990’s, SAS’s, & Mephestos. The SAS & 1540’s are stabilizing shoes and have rollbars. I also use custom orthotics.
I drive but can’t feel the pedals.
My neuropathy is stage four but I think it’s just a hoot and a holler away from stage.
John, do you know what stage yours is?
Jake

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To Jake - I could have mentioned this in other previous post, not sure. Your comment about phenobarb and dilantin jumped out at me. Was on this 2 med therapy for first 8 years and after that, for last 42 years, 600 mg of dilantin only and seizure free since 1972. In my case, although dilantin could be in question and long term use has negative aspects, so far, no doc will say that dilantin IS the cause of my particular PN. Like you said, other meds could contribute to PN....very true!

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@jakedduck1

Thanks for your informative posts John. Someone was concerned about what caused their neuropathy. Mine was caused by the seizure medications Dilantin and phenobarbital which I took with other seizure medicines and who knows maybe the other medications contributed to it. But it doesn’t do any good worrying about a cause.
I wear New Balance 1540v3, 990’s, SAS’s, & Mephestos. The SAS & 1540’s are stabilizing shoes and have rollbars. I also use custom orthotics.
I drive but can’t feel the pedals.
My neuropathy is stage four but I think it’s just a hoot and a holler away from stage.
John, do you know what stage yours is?
Jake

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Wow Jake, in my 6 yrs of idiopathic PN and 3 Primary Neurologists between relocating and finding best fit, nobody ever mentioned a stage! Perhaps my stage is idiopathic too. When I was a runner, New Balance was my shoe - now that I’m just happy to be able to walk around, Skechers has been my comfort shoe. If you’re like me, we probably don’t like confusing our feet too much by changing shoes especially how we are coping with the importance of safest driving given our lack of sensation in our feet; but you have me thinking about exploring New Balance again given how it proved, after many many miles of testing other shoes, that it conformed best to my foot in my active days.

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@bjt

Good Evening!
I am new here, although I have been up to Mayo a few times over the years. I too have small fiber neuropathy with numbness, but no pain. Some tingling at times too. My journey has been over the last 5-6 years. I was pretty healthy and things began changing then. Eventually, it was determined I had Sjogrens Disease which has caused SF neuropathy, dry eyes and mouth, autonomic dysfunction, fiber myalgia, and may have triggered a smoldering multiple myeloma recently too. I am overwhelmed! Focusing on my small fiber neuropathy, I am interested in any special treatment, or medication that might slow progression down. I was treated with hydroxychloroquine first, and I could not take it and then methotrexate which did nothing for the numbness. Not doing much for it now. I walk barefoot in the house because I can better feel my feet. Maybe that is a problem? And I have some balance issues when walking on grass, stones or uneven ground. Are there any good suggestions for me? And I too fear the progression affecting my ability to walk or drive in the future!

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There is a separate link for supplements that treat neuropathy.

https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/supplement-recommendations-can-help/?pg=7#comment-739846

Hope this thread helps.

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@dbeshears1

Wow Jake, in my 6 yrs of idiopathic PN and 3 Primary Neurologists between relocating and finding best fit, nobody ever mentioned a stage! Perhaps my stage is idiopathic too. When I was a runner, New Balance was my shoe - now that I’m just happy to be able to walk around, Skechers has been my comfort shoe. If you’re like me, we probably don’t like confusing our feet too much by changing shoes especially how we are coping with the importance of safest driving given our lack of sensation in our feet; but you have me thinking about exploring New Balance again given how it proved, after many many miles of testing other shoes, that it conformed best to my foot in my active days.

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Debbie - great point, in past 6 or 7 years, the first word about "stages" in PN I heard about was what I saw on line about 16 months ago, no neuro doc or my primary who I've had for 20+ years ever mentioned the stages of PN.

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@bjt

Good Evening!
I am new here, although I have been up to Mayo a few times over the years. I too have small fiber neuropathy with numbness, but no pain. Some tingling at times too. My journey has been over the last 5-6 years. I was pretty healthy and things began changing then. Eventually, it was determined I had Sjogrens Disease which has caused SF neuropathy, dry eyes and mouth, autonomic dysfunction, fiber myalgia, and may have triggered a smoldering multiple myeloma recently too. I am overwhelmed! Focusing on my small fiber neuropathy, I am interested in any special treatment, or medication that might slow progression down. I was treated with hydroxychloroquine first, and I could not take it and then methotrexate which did nothing for the numbness. Not doing much for it now. I walk barefoot in the house because I can better feel my feet. Maybe that is a problem? And I have some balance issues when walking on grass, stones or uneven ground. Are there any good suggestions for me? And I too fear the progression affecting my ability to walk or drive in the future!

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What is Sjogrens Disease?

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@jrayk

What is Sjogrens Disease?

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"Sjogren's (SHOW-grins) syndrome is a disorder of your immune system identified by its two most common symptoms — dry eyes and a dry mouth."
-- Sjogren's syndrome: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/sjogrens-syndrome/symptoms-causes/syc-20353216

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Hi!

Thx for sharing all the invaluable info!

Questions
- Are you diabetic?
- if not, have you had a punch biopsy that confirms small fiber neuropathy?

If not, a MS Neurologist consult may be wise. If an option, consulting physicians at a teaching institution can be helpful for difficult to diagnose medical issues … w/ the most up-to-date knowledge + scanning equipment.

My wisdom … We know our body best + what is normal for us. If a doctor offers a diagnosis that doesn’t seem right, wise to keep consulting specialists until you find a doctor who offers a diagnosis that does.

At age 60, I started experiencing numerous symptoms, including toe pins + needles that over days increased to my feet, knees then waist + over weeks went back down to just my feet.

Initially I was told I had peripheral neuropathy, which seemed unusual … my A1c was .1 into pre-diabetic range. Over 3 years, I consulted numerous specialists at multiple teaching institutions, sharing numerous symptoms: leg weakness + heaviness, brain fog, extreme fatigue, hand tremors, speech challenges, GI issues, stomach distention, weight gain. I had several surgeries, myomectomy + parathyroidectomy, but symptoms continued. At age 63, on a walk on a 88 degree day, I suddenly started experiencing severe difficulty moving my legs. After a negative small fiber punch biopsy, spinal + brain MRIs revealed multiple lesions, a spinal tap was ordered + a multiple sclerosis (MS) Dx given.

I encourage all to educate about MS. The # of diagnosed cases is increasing … across all ethnicities. You may help yourself or someone you know or love to receive earlier diagnosis + treatment … which, like many conditions, is key to a better outcome.

Mayo Clinic Explains Multiple Sclerosis (6 min YouTube)
https://youtu.be/Z1ibVlGflPs

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@kathl

Hi!

Thx for sharing all the invaluable info!

Questions
- Are you diabetic?
- if not, have you had a punch biopsy that confirms small fiber neuropathy?

If not, a MS Neurologist consult may be wise. If an option, consulting physicians at a teaching institution can be helpful for difficult to diagnose medical issues … w/ the most up-to-date knowledge + scanning equipment.

My wisdom … We know our body best + what is normal for us. If a doctor offers a diagnosis that doesn’t seem right, wise to keep consulting specialists until you find a doctor who offers a diagnosis that does.

At age 60, I started experiencing numerous symptoms, including toe pins + needles that over days increased to my feet, knees then waist + over weeks went back down to just my feet.

Initially I was told I had peripheral neuropathy, which seemed unusual … my A1c was .1 into pre-diabetic range. Over 3 years, I consulted numerous specialists at multiple teaching institutions, sharing numerous symptoms: leg weakness + heaviness, brain fog, extreme fatigue, hand tremors, speech challenges, GI issues, stomach distention, weight gain. I had several surgeries, myomectomy + parathyroidectomy, but symptoms continued. At age 63, on a walk on a 88 degree day, I suddenly started experiencing severe difficulty moving my legs. After a negative small fiber punch biopsy, spinal + brain MRIs revealed multiple lesions, a spinal tap was ordered + a multiple sclerosis (MS) Dx given.

I encourage all to educate about MS. The # of diagnosed cases is increasing … across all ethnicities. You may help yourself or someone you know or love to receive earlier diagnosis + treatment … which, like many conditions, is key to a better outcome.

Mayo Clinic Explains Multiple Sclerosis (6 min YouTube)
https://youtu.be/Z1ibVlGflPs

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Hi Kath, I encourage you connect with other members living with multiple sclerosis (MS) in this discussion:
- Multiple Sclerosis (MS) - please introduce yourself https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/multiple-sclerosis-ms-please-introduce-yourself/

I'm confident your experiences in getting a diagnosis and living with MS will be really helpful to newcomers.

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