Many neuropathy issues, so why so few doctors who know?

Posted by pauldandurand @pauldandurand, Mar 28 10:00am

I had a lumbar spine surgery that resulted in nerve root injury and neuropathic foot symptoms that were not present before the procedure. When I have raised this with the surgeons involved and with other neurosurgeons and orthopedic surgeons since, the consistent response has been that post-surgical nerve rehabilitation is outside their scope, and none of them could point me toward anyone who could help. A few suggested DRG stimulation, which I researched and found was not appropriate for my type of injury. The rest had nothing to offer at all. I have felt increasingly lost with no specialist and no path forward.

I am not trying to assign blame. I understand that surgical complications fall into a gap between what spine surgeons do and what rehabilitation specialists typically treat. But I need a way forward and I have not been able to find it through the specialists I have access to.

Has anyone here found a type of specialist, whether in physical medicine, rehabilitation, or another field, who works specifically with peripheral neuropathy caused by spinal surgery? Any direction would be genuinely helpful. Thanks

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Profile picture for pegcmke @pegcmke

Why so few doctors know?… There are so few docs in neurology & likely fewer in research. Treatments generally require millions of dollars for research, then again for clinical trials. Neuropathy affects primarily old people, fewer than a dosease like cancer or spinal disorders….and now our government agencies are hatcheting many research programs. So I understand the lack of interest & knowledge.
Fortunately my neuropathy (feet only) is relatively mild & very manageable with a few strategies. At rarer times it is maddening. I have wondered recently if acupuncture would be useful. After I read about something called “peripheral nerve dysfunction (which affects body temperature regulation & other systems) that seemed the next approach I’ll try.
I’ve done 1 course of Tx with a PT using a device called WYNBK (“win back”.) It’s not FDA approved or reimbursed by insurance (self pay.) I didn’t notice any improvement with the 1 course. But if I did 10? ($4,000) Who knows. I truly feel for younger people with this, and those whose neuropathy is more severe. Our bodies are such a magical mystery! I bet what we know is just the tip of a great iceberg. Best wishes to you.

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@pegcmke
Thank you for responding. Your point about funding scarcity is accurate, and the current cuts to government research make a thin field even thinner.

My case differs in that mine is iatrogenic, caused directly by spinal surgery rather than a systemic condition. That puts it in a gap between specialties: spine surgeons consider the chapter closed, and neuropathy clinics are built around diabetic or chemotherapy-induced cases. I have been reaching out to hand rehabilitation specialists, since the cortical mechanisms are essentially the same regardless of which limb is affected. Whether that opens any doors remains to be seen.

Your comment about younger patients resonates. I hope your own strategies continue to hold.

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Profile picture for pauldandurand @pauldandurand

@weinham007

Sorry to hear you have similar issues. What kind of symptoms do you have with your foot? For me, it's weight-bearing pain mostly under the three smaller toes, the ball of the foot, and along the right edge of the foot. I also have a loss of sensation in that area. That's S1 nerve territory but because of my dual L5 nerve construction, neurologists believe that part of the foot is managed by the L5 in my case. When I describe the symptoms I say it's like rolling up a cardboard pill box and sticking it under the ball of the foot and then walk on it. I tried that with left shoe, the good foot, and I was able to simulate the same sensations as my bad right foot.

I have concluded, or at least so far, that there's no focus on post surgery nerve damage. A couple surgeons I met said it's very common and they have patients with similar post-surgery neuropathy problems, but they place the blame on the pre-surgery condition (i.e., disc hernia) not the surgery itself. I could be wrong, but I'm guessing surgeons wouldn't record accidental nerve damage and most of them may not even know they did it.

The reflex to trial gabapentin, pregabalin, duloxetine, etc. is understandable. These are the only tools available in a brief outpatient consultation that require nothing from the surgeon beyond writing a prescription. The evidence on their efficacy for post-surgical neuropathic pain is genuinely modest, as both you and I have experienced.

The real gap is at the handoff point. When surgery ends and no further surgery is appropriate, there's no mechanism to transfer the patient to a specialist with the training, time, and reimbursement model (financial incentive) to manage what remains. Physical medicine and rehabilitation physicians are the closest structural equivalent, but rehabilitation with regular physical therapy wasn't built around post-surgical nerve injury rehabilitation either. Sigh.

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@pauldandurand

I can barely feel my right foot. Stumbling, burning sensation as if it’s asleep and will not wake up. It’s getting worse as time goes by.

My left foot is not as bad. However, I do feel the burning but not the asleep sensation.

I am concerned that my back (8 years after surgery) is starting to get painful again. I think 8 - 10 years is what the surgeon told me my spinal fusion would last. I don’t know what may happen next.

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Profile picture for weinham007 @weinham007

@bajjerfan

I have no idea. Didn’t know about that at the time.

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@weinham007

The person actually doing the monitoring would have talked to you and asked you to sign an approval form pre-surgery. I had someone for both my cervical and lumbar procedures.

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Profile picture for pauldandurand @pauldandurand

@bajjerfan
I don't think so. They never mentioned it to me. Thanks for pointing this out since Intraoperative neuromonitoring (IONM) is totally new to me. It looks like it's more commonly used for complex spine surgery, but not the more routine ones. If I would have known about this in advance, I would have requested it for the first surgery and demanded it for the second surgery because of my conjoined root nerves and having them damaged by the first surgery. I hope others reading this will consider requesting before surgery. Should be standard in my opinion. (I would gladly pay extra for it if needed.)

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@pauldandurand

They billed Medicare about $20K both times but got about 5% of that for their efforts. My surgeon may use the service routinly.

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Profile picture for weinham007 @weinham007

@pauldandurand

I can barely feel my right foot. Stumbling, burning sensation as if it’s asleep and will not wake up. It’s getting worse as time goes by.

My left foot is not as bad. However, I do feel the burning but not the asleep sensation.

I am concerned that my back (8 years after surgery) is starting to get painful again. I think 8 - 10 years is what the surgeon told me my spinal fusion would last. I don’t know what may happen next.

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@weinham007

I hope the next step is not surgery. If your surgeon pushes for it, consider 2-3 other opinions.
Did they say the foot problem is from fibrosis tethering the nerve or something else? Or was the it from a nerve root receiving direct damage from a herniated disc or maybe accidently by the surgeon during the surgery?

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I can understand your frustration, the first neurologist that I saw several years ago did an EMG and nerve conductivity test on me, and then proceeded to tell me that I didn't have neuropathy in my feet, but he couldn't tell me what my problem was. I ended up seeing a total of 4 doctors over the course of several years only to be told that I have idiopathic poly neuropathy, no cause could be determined. Thanks for nothing.

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Profile picture for mrmacabre @mrmacabre

I can understand your frustration, the first neurologist that I saw several years ago did an EMG and nerve conductivity test on me, and then proceeded to tell me that I didn't have neuropathy in my feet, but he couldn't tell me what my problem was. I ended up seeing a total of 4 doctors over the course of several years only to be told that I have idiopathic poly neuropathy, no cause could be determined. Thanks for nothing.

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@mrmacabre
Ugh. Not knowing must be the worse. I know my situation, but they don't know how to fix it. In your case, you can't start with a fix without knowing the cause. Must be really frustrating.

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Tried acupuncture several times. Only temporary relief

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Profile picture for sash @sash

Tried acupuncture several times. Only temporary relief

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@sash
Thanks, Sash. I often thought about it. I'm probably not going to try it.

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Profile picture for pauldandurand @pauldandurand

@sash
Thanks, Sash. I often thought about it. I'm probably not going to try it.

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@pauldandurand I wouldn't, my doctor told me that his patient's experiences with acupuncture was always just temporary.

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