Is it AFIb?

Posted by sigurd @sigurd, 1 day ago

Hi,
I’m 63 years old and very healthy and active at least I was.
I got an Apple Watch and checking all the heart apps I show AFIb every once in awhile. The only heads up is I feel anxious. I was a a cardiologist 2 years ago who put me on a 20 minute ekg and when through my 318 times I’ve checked with 227 sinus rhythm results, 23 AFIb with a max heart rate once of 155, 15 inconclusive and rest poor readings due to a loose strap on watch.
I noticed in my slept once in last week my heart rate went to 135 for approx 20 seconds. I was awake and very anxious.
I’ve went back to family doctor who never even took my blood pressure, usually, 115-122/68. She just said I’ll get a holster monitor for 24 hours. She said it’s probably afib and be prepared for a lifetime of blood thinners.
Any comments would be appreciated as I have 3 post university kids home again trying to save for a house and I lost my brother this summer and trying to take care of his businesses. I work as a teacher but have 2 other side hustles which are outside and require to be athletic…over 15,000 steps a day.
Sorry for the long message.
Cheers

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Heart Rhythm Conditions Support Group.

It seems that you have a lot on your plate. Just on the face of it, and going by your choices of words strung together here and there in your text, you may be overextended emotionally or in terms of stress and worry. Something to consider soberly...with an analysis of some kind. Not judging...just offering objective, no-skin-in-your-game observation.

It is not unusual in the least to have no overt symptoms of arrhythmias of any kind, except that the most dangerous one, ventricular tachycardia, will have you feeling awful in short order. Typical symptoms for AF are shortness of breath, feeling dizzy, anxiety, poor balance, and often palpitations in the left side wall of the chest (palpitations are a symptom...only...they are not a diagnosis. The term is what patients and physicians prefer to use because patients understand the term....except they think the doctor should be diagnosing 'palpitations'.).

Your watch can only do so much. A Kardia Mobile, a Holter Monitor, or a Loop Recorder will do a better job of definitively determining whether or not you have AF. Kardia Mobiles are not a lot of money; many tens of thousands sold.

Depending on your CHA2DS2-VASc score (you can google it), you will very likely want to accept that your risk of stroke due to intermittent AF is a little too high for your, and your cardiologist's, comfort. So, he/she is probably correct that you will take a DOAC (Direct Oral Anti-Coagulant) like apixaban (Eliquis) or rivaroxaban (Xarelto) daily for the rest of your life.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/atrial-fibrillation/diagnosis-treatment/drc-20350630
https://www.heartandstroke.ca/heart-disease/conditions/atrial-fibrillation
Note that 20% of all strokes turn out to be related to a cardiac arrhythmia. Not only that, but the two latest findings are as follows:

40% of all living adults can expect to be diagnosed with an arrhythmia in the next 30 years. Secondly, the newly determined gold standard for treatment of AF is what is called a catheter ablation. It's a complicated procedure, but it's only day surgery....honestly! I have had two of them. You are at the hospital at 0700, and you're being driven home (they put you out with propofol or a general) by NLT 1900, depending on when they get you into the cath lab that day.

We can feed you more info as you think about things and want to know more.

REPLY

By the way, you can read your own ECG printout from any device and see quickly if you have AF or some other arrhythmia.

Looking at the sharp squiggles on the ECG, the tallest peaks are the R waves. Are they spaced out pretty much evenly, or can you see that the space between them varies? If it is obviously different, not even, then it's probably AF. Secondly, just before the three largest squiggles in the clump, is there a little wave, a blip? If not, then there is no P wave. The P wave signifies the depolarization of the left atrium. No P wave, no depolarization where it is supposed to appear, just prior to the QRS complex (the large clump of squiggles). No P wave = AF.

REPLY

I had AFIB during three operations. The last one was 1/23/2022. I wore a holter twice for a month after two of my operations- Heart bypass and left kidney removal. Both showed no AFIB.
One Cardiologist stopped the Eloquis because of the holter results after the heart bypass.
He restarted the Eloquis after the Kidney removal. He said the he could understand AFIB during a heart operation but not a kidney one. If I had an Implantable Loop Recorder chip put in my chest he would stop the Eloquis after a couple of weeks of negative indications. I declined as I was sick of getting cut again. I use a Kardia Mobile twice daily-no sign of AFIB.

REPLY
@gloaming

It seems that you have a lot on your plate. Just on the face of it, and going by your choices of words strung together here and there in your text, you may be overextended emotionally or in terms of stress and worry. Something to consider soberly...with an analysis of some kind. Not judging...just offering objective, no-skin-in-your-game observation.

It is not unusual in the least to have no overt symptoms of arrhythmias of any kind, except that the most dangerous one, ventricular tachycardia, will have you feeling awful in short order. Typical symptoms for AF are shortness of breath, feeling dizzy, anxiety, poor balance, and often palpitations in the left side wall of the chest (palpitations are a symptom...only...they are not a diagnosis. The term is what patients and physicians prefer to use because patients understand the term....except they think the doctor should be diagnosing 'palpitations'.).

Your watch can only do so much. A Kardia Mobile, a Holter Monitor, or a Loop Recorder will do a better job of definitively determining whether or not you have AF. Kardia Mobiles are not a lot of money; many tens of thousands sold.

Depending on your CHA2DS2-VASc score (you can google it), you will very likely want to accept that your risk of stroke due to intermittent AF is a little too high for your, and your cardiologist's, comfort. So, he/she is probably correct that you will take a DOAC (Direct Oral Anti-Coagulant) like apixaban (Eliquis) or rivaroxaban (Xarelto) daily for the rest of your life.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/atrial-fibrillation/diagnosis-treatment/drc-20350630
https://www.heartandstroke.ca/heart-disease/conditions/atrial-fibrillation
Note that 20% of all strokes turn out to be related to a cardiac arrhythmia. Not only that, but the two latest findings are as follows:

40% of all living adults can expect to be diagnosed with an arrhythmia in the next 30 years. Secondly, the newly determined gold standard for treatment of AF is what is called a catheter ablation. It's a complicated procedure, but it's only day surgery....honestly! I have had two of them. You are at the hospital at 0700, and you're being driven home (they put you out with propofol or a general) by NLT 1900, depending on when they get you into the cath lab that day.

We can feed you more info as you think about things and want to know more.

Jump to this post

Thanks for the feedback.
My apologies on the ramble.
Reading over it is confusing so I’ll try and reader digest it.
-3 years with Apple Watch I’ve had 27 afib warnings. A few with high heart rates. In the 3 years there’s been approx 250 sinus rhythm recordings.
- I’m very busy and active with good blood pressure and zero health problems.
-1 run daily and lift weights.
This New Years, I began wearing my watch all the time and checking all my vitals. I’ve seen to have had a few afib warnings and a couple with Heart rates over 130. I can literally go from a resting HR of 60 and take my watch and go to the Afib app and my HR immediately shoots up to at least 90.
- whether it has anything to do with my results but I came down with Shingles and a bad Head and Chest infection on Jan 9th which I’m still taking antibiotics for.

I’ve went to the GP who really wasn’t saying too much but said the graph doesn’t have the P and R readings for Afib…maybe 2 outta the 27. She thought a 24 hour halter would be a good benchmark. I’m on a wait list for the halter for 4 months as she put down on requisition it was “non urgent, elective” so, I’m at the bottom of wait list.
Sorry, for the long rambling again…just a little concerned.
Cheers
Ps…did the survey and scored zero(0)

REPLY
@sigurd

Thanks for the feedback.
My apologies on the ramble.
Reading over it is confusing so I’ll try and reader digest it.
-3 years with Apple Watch I’ve had 27 afib warnings. A few with high heart rates. In the 3 years there’s been approx 250 sinus rhythm recordings.
- I’m very busy and active with good blood pressure and zero health problems.
-1 run daily and lift weights.
This New Years, I began wearing my watch all the time and checking all my vitals. I’ve seen to have had a few afib warnings and a couple with Heart rates over 130. I can literally go from a resting HR of 60 and take my watch and go to the Afib app and my HR immediately shoots up to at least 90.
- whether it has anything to do with my results but I came down with Shingles and a bad Head and Chest infection on Jan 9th which I’m still taking antibiotics for.

I’ve went to the GP who really wasn’t saying too much but said the graph doesn’t have the P and R readings for Afib…maybe 2 outta the 27. She thought a 24 hour halter would be a good benchmark. I’m on a wait list for the halter for 4 months as she put down on requisition it was “non urgent, elective” so, I’m at the bottom of wait list.
Sorry, for the long rambling again…just a little concerned.
Cheers
Ps…did the survey and scored zero(0)

Jump to this post

It is good to see you're well in tune with your body. That's a plus.

The indications are that you have AF, or perhaps it's really another arrhythmia, but we should probably agree that it's at least an undefined and paroxysmal tachyarrhythmia....agreed?

So far, it isn't urgent, and I urge you to try to keep calm, maybe dial the physical effort and duration back a notch, and keep a sharp eye on your hourly rate for the next few weeks. Record instances, and if your device can download an ECG graphic/record to your tablet/PC, then do that every single time you are advised that you have had an arrhythmia. Take those in hand to your next cardio visit. If she dismisses them, run, don't walk, to another cardiologist. Again, if there are P waves, it isn't AF. If the R-to-R intervals are very close to even across many beats, it isn't AF. If a few beats seem to be missing, it's PACs (premature atrial complexes, and everyone has them. They only become a problem when they run up to 5/6 at a time and come more than three or four times each day. When their total burden is upwards of 1/5%, the latest research says to start dealing with them).
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8190115/
About your CHA2DS2-VASc score, I don't doubt your self-assessment, but the fact is that IF...IF...you do indeed have a tachyarrhythmia, and if it is AF, your risk of stroke from an 'unrinsed' left atrial appendage (LAA) rises six-fold. Twenty percent of all seniors' strokes can be attributed to fibrillation or flutter. You always have the trump card to refuse to take a DOAC, even at half-dose, but I have just resigned myself to taking them. I sit a lot at the PC (no kidding!), and I have a history of AF, even if it is nicely in remission....for now. I have incipient hypertension, although my Galaxy watch, calibrated every 28 days, sez no. So, my risk may be high enough that I just lump it and swallow 5mg BID.

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Thank you!
I agree there's something going on...whether its from the infection or Shingles causing the uptake, who knows.
I called the hospital and they moved me to February 24th for a 24 hour Holter.
Fingers crossed and I appreciate your knowledge.

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