Improve bone density and strength without medication?

Posted by plav @plav, Dec 20, 2023

Any luck improving bone density and strength without medication? It seems the medications only mildly help ... and they only help some patients; some studies show the slight improvement in density does not mean quality bone was built. I'm not comfortable with moving forward with the treatments just because "that's what we give patients with osteoporosis". There seems to be no room for education or discussion, or research into actual results or other options.

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@cpd54

Thanks for sharing this. It goes to show that drugs aren’t necessarily the only option for increasing bone density. It makes me feel better about my no drug approach to dealing with my osteoporosis.

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I’m trying to not take the drugs also. Can you share any tips you’ve found helpful? I’m taking Vit D3 with K2, magnesium. Active B12 and L-5-MTHF, and Berberine. I’m going to physical therapy for weight bearing, strengthening, core and balance exercises. I’ve increased calcium, eggs, etc in my diet, and added prunes daily. I’m limiting processed foods as well. I’m also going part time at work so I don’t sit so much … since my worst T & Z scores were in my lumbar spine and I had a sacral fracture last year (NOT from a fall). I am 58, and I want to do all I can without meds.

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@plav

I’m trying to not take the drugs also. Can you share any tips you’ve found helpful? I’m taking Vit D3 with K2, magnesium. Active B12 and L-5-MTHF, and Berberine. I’m going to physical therapy for weight bearing, strengthening, core and balance exercises. I’ve increased calcium, eggs, etc in my diet, and added prunes daily. I’m limiting processed foods as well. I’m also going part time at work so I don’t sit so much … since my worst T & Z scores were in my lumbar spine and I had a sacral fracture last year (NOT from a fall). I am 58, and I want to do all I can without meds.

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@plav you seem to be hitting most of things required. Take your calcium/ mag in ratio of 2:1. K2-MK7 is supposedly better than K2-MK4(although I take both).also, you need Vitamin A. Take your fat soluble vitamins with fat for better absorption. Centrum Silver does a pretty good job of hitting the minor elements needed, such as Boron, Zinc, Copper. You need adequate protein, 1.2-1.4 grams per kg of body weight( I have problems getting enough).
Weight bearing exercise is important.
I have learned a lot from reading Dr Keith McCormicks books. I also like Dr Doug Lucas, a retired orthopedic surgeon who has changed his focus to metabolic health.
Right now, I’m
researching eating low carb. I have other health issues I believe would be helped with low carb as well as osteoporosis.
The most important thing to me in treating osteoporosis is to do what you feel is best for you and your health. I’ve had 3 doctors tell me not to take the drugs and 2 tell me to take them. My mother lived to 90. She was text book for having osteoporosis. She was a frail non exercising individual who didn’t take calcium but she also didn’t eat processed foods. She fell on a regular basis due to blackouts( once or twice a month). And she NEVER a broke a bone. I factor that into my decision.
Good luck in your journey.

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@plav

I’m trying to not take the drugs also. Can you share any tips you’ve found helpful? I’m taking Vit D3 with K2, magnesium. Active B12 and L-5-MTHF, and Berberine. I’m going to physical therapy for weight bearing, strengthening, core and balance exercises. I’ve increased calcium, eggs, etc in my diet, and added prunes daily. I’m limiting processed foods as well. I’m also going part time at work so I don’t sit so much … since my worst T & Z scores were in my lumbar spine and I had a sacral fracture last year (NOT from a fall). I am 58, and I want to do all I can without meds.

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@plav it is concerning that you had a sacral fracture. I admire your commitment but hope that you will consider the Tymlos regimen we have discussed in this forum. I feel bone loss is inevitable after menopause. You are doing a lot of work. Would you trust the opinion of Keith McCormick, who wrote "The Whole Body Approach to Osteoporosis" and the recent "Great Bones." He does consults. As a fellow fracture sufferer, I was so pleased to be able to tolerate Tymlos by ramping up slowly (never did full dose) and had a 20% gain in spine, going from severe to borderline.

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@cpd54

My scores are like yours. But I haven’t had a fracture. I’ve had 3 doctors tell me not to take drugs, an orthopedic surgeon, a functional medicine doctor and my dentist. My planned course of action is for 2 years try to do everything possible to up my scores without meds. Then have another dexa and see. My daily supplements are recommended by my FMD. Calcium citrate or malate- 1000 mg daily( I take Osteo-K by NBI), D3 5000 IU (I was significantly low), a B complex, Magnesium 2:1 ratio to calcium (I take citrate and glycinate), Vit K2 (I’ve done a lot if research on this one. FMD said up to 45 mg. That’s MK4. There is also MK7 that I take every other day at 182 mcg.), Boron 3 mg, Copper .9mg, Zinc 15 mg , Manganese- 1.8-23 mg, selenium 55 mcg. A lot of these I get with my multi vitamin.
She also recommended yoga, fast walking, stomping and whole body vibration for exercise.
You will find TONS of info and opinions about osteoporosis when you start researching. To me, you do what s best for you based on your health and comfort. I’m not comfortable taking the drugs. I’ll reassess after my next Dexa. Also there are other tests, P1NP and CTX, you can do to determine the action of your bone building.
I would suggest reading Dr Keith McCormicks books as well as Vitamin K2 and the Calcium Paradox by Kate Rheaume-Bleue. Also I’ve just started watching Dr Doug Lucas on YouTube.
Good luck in your journey.

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Mine didn’t recommend drugs until I had a fracture. Wish I had started hormones sooner. I use transdermal creams and oral micronized bio identical.

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@lynn59

Oh wow that is quite different from my prescription if I’m reading it correctly. 2mg estrogen versus my .025 mg estrogen patch …. And 50 mg progesterone versus my 100 mg. I’ll have to research these doses to help explain the differences. Thanks so much. Do you mind sharing your age and years since menopause).

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I was cleared by cardiologist to take hormones starting in mid 60’s. I’m having mild fluid retention at end of day, so will dial back estrogen cream a tad and increase progesterone to 100 mg. The beauty if ttansdermal creams are that they are easy to adjust and have far fewer cardiac risks.

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@windyshores

Fosamax technically isn't a bone builder. With severe osteoporosis and a history of fracture, I would be scared to rely on prunes, but it would be helpful info as an addition to bone building meds!

This study (Funded by the Prune Boards!) says 5-6 prunes a day
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/eating-5-to-6-prunes-a-day-may-prevent-bone-loss-osteoporosis

“Our study is the first to reveal that consuming just 5-6 prunes a day prevented a loss of bone mineral density at the hip, the site of most concern for aging men and women as hip fractures commonly lead to hospitalization, diminished quality of life, and loss of independence.”
— Dr. Mary Jane De Souza

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Does anyone know if prune juice works as well as eating prunes? And if so, how much prune juice a day?

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@sallyj2

I was cleared by cardiologist to take hormones starting in mid 60’s. I’m having mild fluid retention at end of day, so will dial back estrogen cream a tad and increase progesterone to 100 mg. The beauty if ttansdermal creams are that they are easy to adjust and have far fewer cardiac risks.

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Hi Sallyj2. May I ask if you did a CT scan showing your arteries were clear of plague (or fairly clear)? I have a history of heart disease in my family plus many years ago I was stupid enough to smoke. I gave it up decades ago, but my cardiologist said it still may have affected my arteries and as a precaution has suggested a statin. This may be a reason for me not to be cleared. I put a call into my cardiologist but his office hasn’t gotten back to me yet.

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@lynn59

Hi Sallyj2. May I ask if you did a CT scan showing your arteries were clear of plague (or fairly clear)? I have a history of heart disease in my family plus many years ago I was stupid enough to smoke. I gave it up decades ago, but my cardiologist said it still may have affected my arteries and as a precaution has suggested a statin. This may be a reason for me not to be cleared. I put a call into my cardiologist but his office hasn’t gotten back to me yet.

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I have a clear scan. Doctors have to be Uptodate, too, or they will say too risky. Transdermal is very different from oral. Also cleared by oncologist.

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@lynn59

Hi Sallyj2. May I ask if you did a CT scan showing your arteries were clear of plague (or fairly clear)? I have a history of heart disease in my family plus many years ago I was stupid enough to smoke. I gave it up decades ago, but my cardiologist said it still may have affected my arteries and as a precaution has suggested a statin. This may be a reason for me not to be cleared. I put a call into my cardiologist but his office hasn’t gotten back to me yet.

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Also, I don’t know how long ago you smoked or how much, but between a cardio ct scan and an echo, cardiologist should be able to tell you the state of your heart. Many doctors have stopped prescribing statins, especially for women. Second opinion maybe?

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@plav

I am 58, and had a sacral fracture last year (not from a fall); I found out after that I have osteoporosis. Most recent DEXA scan showed lumbar spine T score -4.1 and Z score -3.1. Recommendation from endocrinologist is Romosozumab(Evenity) for a year, then Reclast infusions after that. I am struggling to find any peace at all from researching these medications, and have not found a single doctor willing to discuss anything other than "standard treatment" because they say that's just what is done. I am researching like crazy to find information and options available to me. I have started physical therapy to gain strength, changed my diet, and have started taking active B12 with L-5-MTHF, D3 with K2, Berberine, Magnesium, and collagen. I have had a full-time desk job for 40 years; I am going part time so I'm not sitting so much also.

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After taking Evenity with minimal improvement, I have decided to get a rebounder (in home, small trampoline) to try to get in some mild impact to hips. I am also researching OsteoStrong. They have studios with equipment to mimic impact activities to strengthen bone

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