Go with local prostectomy surgeon or pursue big center 2.5 hours away

Posted by fritzo @fritzo, Feb 8 8:18pm

Hi everyone,

I need radical prostatectomy (Gleason 3+4=7, Stage IIB). The good news is that it is contained to the prostate with no spread.

I have a local urologist who has done 100 robotic nerve-sparing procedures (he also does kidney and other surgery). He was trained at a center and now does one or two prostatectomy surgeries a month.

Should I see if I can qualify for a large surgery center 2 1/2 hours away in Chicago at Northwestern?

My surgery time currently will likely be in two months. I'm guessing it will take time to be set up as a patient at the center and surgery might be delayed even more.

Are the benefits of a big center worth perhaps an even longer delay?
Just wondering everyone's thoughts? Thanks for your help!

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Prostate Cancer Support Group.

I wish this Mayo blog (my computer?) didn't have auto-correct spelling and assumed word choice. I just noticed that I intended to write (and did type) "neurovascular" bundles twice, but they appeared as "neuromuscular" bundles, and I didn't notice the auto-correction occurred. Sorry gang...but I figured that you knew of what I was talking.

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All the great surgeons started out with 0 surgeries.

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Profile picture for fritzo @fritzo

@kjacko So glad for you that your treatment went so well. I know I can make Chicago work (I have family in the area that I could stay with), but Milwaukee would be tough between treatment and follow-up care.

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@fritzo Do whats best for you. Best wishes!

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Profile picture for chippydoo @chippydoo

@bueller68 A few years out from RP I question the whole nerve sparing thing. Am I willing to risk leaving something behind for some better wood? As a patient that never achieved undetectable status after removal, I wish my doctor had said we will get wide margins. After Salvage radiation and its side effects I wish they had carpet bombed the whole area during surgery. Currently sitting at home after being scoped and cauterized for radiation proctitis earlier this morning. Chose wisely between wood or cancer gone. Surgeons are salesmen. Have you considered Proton radiation?

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@chippydoo Chip, I actually told my famously nerve sparing surgeon to spare nothing when it came to removing all the cancer; I told him that if I wanted potency more than living, I would be at the radiologist’s office. (Less SE’s sexually)
He did a thorough job as evidenced by my complete loss of erections, but I still needed SRT 6 yrs later.
But I would rather be Erect than ‘erect’ any day of the week!
Phil

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Profile picture for tootall10 @tootall10

All the great surgeons started out with 0 surgeries.

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@tootall10 True…but would you want to be his FIRST??

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Profile picture for fritzo @fritzo

@chippydoo
Your advice is really telling. I listed to myself the most important goals to me. First was cure, 2nd was continence and 3rd is ED. Tells me not to obsess about nerve sparing vs. cancer removal.

There is a Proton center 1.5 hours away and also at Northwestern. It looks like the studies right now aren't showing improved side effect outcome for proton vs. regular radiation therapy. But, definitely need to explore options.

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@fritzo I'm not familiar with those studies. A friend of mine went with Proton and hasn't had near the side effects I had with EBRT. Definitely not a scientific study. Cure is at the top of my list. I think surgeons oversell nerve sparing. They don't get paid if you go with radiation.

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Profile picture for heavyphil @heavyphil

@chippydoo Chip, I actually told my famously nerve sparing surgeon to spare nothing when it came to removing all the cancer; I told him that if I wanted potency more than living, I would be at the radiologist’s office. (Less SE’s sexually)
He did a thorough job as evidenced by my complete loss of erections, but I still needed SRT 6 yrs later.
But I would rather be Erect than ‘erect’ any day of the week!
Phil

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@heavyphil "But I would rather be Erect than ‘erect’ any day of the week!" lol yep

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Profile picture for fritzo @fritzo

@chippydoo I trust that he is good. the hospital is OK (metro populaton 236K), but it doesn't compare to the medical facilities I used to live near.

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@fritzo It's hard to beat a CCC teaching hospital that uses a team concept.

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Mark Scholz of PCRI has a video up where he discusses radiation vrs surgery.
search on: "A Medical Oncologist Compares Surgery and Radiation for Prostate Cancer | Mark Scholz, MD | PCRI" He favors radiation, saying he hardly ever prescribes surgery any more.

Dr. Geo posted part of his interview with Michael Zelefsky on this topic. Search on: "Surgery vs. Radiation: What’s the Truth? with Dr Michael Zelefsky | Dr. Geo Insights".

Zelefsky has been a top flight very influential researcher and clinician for decades. He sums up his discussion saying all the treatments are so much better than only a few years ago that if you find someone and a treatment you believe in, do it. You won't be that far wrong, if you are. I noticed that Zelefsky is based in NYC, where, he says, the surgeons are outstanding, and the radiation treatments are state of the art.

He himself is using an MRI-Linac, said by some to be the latest and greatest external beam that exists, combining it with HDR brachytherapy when he's treating high risk patients.

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Profile picture for climateguy @climateguy

Mark Scholz of PCRI has a video up where he discusses radiation vrs surgery.
search on: "A Medical Oncologist Compares Surgery and Radiation for Prostate Cancer | Mark Scholz, MD | PCRI" He favors radiation, saying he hardly ever prescribes surgery any more.

Dr. Geo posted part of his interview with Michael Zelefsky on this topic. Search on: "Surgery vs. Radiation: What’s the Truth? with Dr Michael Zelefsky | Dr. Geo Insights".

Zelefsky has been a top flight very influential researcher and clinician for decades. He sums up his discussion saying all the treatments are so much better than only a few years ago that if you find someone and a treatment you believe in, do it. You won't be that far wrong, if you are. I noticed that Zelefsky is based in NYC, where, he says, the surgeons are outstanding, and the radiation treatments are state of the art.

He himself is using an MRI-Linac, said by some to be the latest and greatest external beam that exists, combining it with HDR brachytherapy when he's treating high risk patients.

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@climateguy

This is very helpful. I did do a consult with the local radiation oncologist, who was very well trained and looked to be using the standard of care for IMRT. But, I'm going to see if other options are viable for me.

Side note: I am leading to surgery because I'm 63 and in good health otherwise. If there is recurrence, than I can follow up with radiation rather than having to move straight to hormone therapy....so more recurrence treatment options is my thinking. I'm a 3+4 and looks to be contained to prostate situation.

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