Does anyone else have a lack of clearance after nebulizing?

Posted by lindabourassai @lindabourassai, Jul 28 11:30am

I have always had a hard time getting a sputum sample and don't get much clearance after nebulizing. I went to NJH as an outpatient for over a week as I could not tolerate the Big 3. I should have pressed the question more about the lack of clearance but did not. I find it fascinating reading posts from other people on this site who have volumes of mucus clearance daily.
Is there anyone else here who has problems getting anything out of their lungs after nebulizing with 7% saline?

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I have always had problems with clearing mucus after nebulizing and exercising and other tricks. Producing anything for a sample makes me anxious that whatever is in the tube will be rejected. I cough a lot in the morning, so I know it’s there. What I recently found out sometimes, not every day, I can produce a little of the greenish stuff around 1 pm-2pm after a gym session. So in the morning I get two puffs of levalbuterol, swallow mucinex 600 mg suggested brand Curist by somebody on this portal- extended release, then exercise with deep breaths( hands up with deep breath in,count 1,2,3, out hands down, few times, same with hands to the sides stretched few times) then do nebulizing 7% sodium chloride half alone with aeroclipse and half of the same vial with aeroclipse and aerobika together and a vest. In the meantime I stop and cough. I get rid of what comes, mostly saliva. But it’s what it is. I am dried out but even though then I try the postural drainage. If it’s without results I simply go with my day. But after 11 I go to a small gym at my local senior center and use the rowing machine 15 minutes and 30 minutes of treadmill. After I get home and drink a glass of warm gingery water I lay down on a yoga mat (it about 1-2 pm )with elevated hips and do the active cycle of breathing app-on my phone, 4-5 cycles. Usually I can produce may be about a teaspoon of mucus. I know so much effort for that but the whole process gives me hope that I might be lucky to get a sample for the culture to be tested. However if I miss the time frame of 1-2, I cannot cough up anything. In the evening whatever I try, nothing comes out so I do it anyway to move at least whatever is in my lungs. I am sorry it’s sooo long but may be someone will try this. It took over a year of trying different scenarios and this one seems to work sometimes. One more thing, when doing the app, when I start hearing gurgling in my throat, I know there will be something to huff cough. Sorry again for such a long post. Let me know if it helped. I took me almost a year of trying different scenarios to come to this small effect

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I rarely bring up mucus. When I went to Mayo, I had a session with respiratory therapist and still didn't get a good sample, just a small amt of blood-only time for that and I think it shows how hard she tried. They had to do a bronch to get a specimen to culture which was negative! This despite's CT showing trees-in-bud, mucus plugs, ground glass etc.

Mayo had me doing 2x neb, postural drainage, aerobika, etc., but I was getting zero out, while we waited for culture. I had to stop postural drainage because it caused reflux. After the cultures were negative, Mayo doc let me cut airway clearance to daily. When I got into local Penn program later, doc agreed with daily unless I start feeling sick and I increase it. Note-my PFT's are excellent and contribute to their decision. Last fall, he asked me to add 7% hypertonic saline to try to reduce the frequent respiratory viruses I'd had the previous year. It seemed to help and I didn't pick up grandkid's bugs from Dec on. I've asked him why I can't get sputum out and he said he doesn't think much is in there and that CT changes from when I was sick and diagnosed with BE may persist.
We aren't the only ones with little to no sputum. There is a subset of us with "dry bronchiectasis." I've seen the percentage, but did quick search and can't find it.
I admire Lilianna's persistence in figuring it out!

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I found the percentage in one abstract though I don't think it's one I saw earlier.
https://publications.ersnet.org/content/erj/47/4/1113
Here's part:
"Among 1145 patients (median age 66 years; 40% male), four clusters were identified driven by the presence of chronic infection with Pseudomonas aeruginosa or other pathogens and daily sputum: “Pseudomonas” (16%), “Other chronic infection” (24%), “Daily sputum” (33%) and “Dry bronchiectasis” (27%).

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In the main paper on clinical phenotypes I just posted, it says this group 4 with dry bronchiectasis had lower systemic inflammation, less functional impairment and no chronic infections. Good info.
I tried to edit above post to add that, but couldn't.

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Profile picture for pacathy @pacathy

In the main paper on clinical phenotypes I just posted, it says this group 4 with dry bronchiectasis had lower systemic inflammation, less functional impairment and no chronic infections. Good info.
I tried to edit above post to add that, but couldn't.

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Thank you. This is encouraging information. Other than breathing problems that occur if I walk very far, particularly quickly, my MAC does not affect my daily life. I do have strong prolonged night sweats that interfere with my sleep.

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I'm so sorry to confuse you, but if you have an active infection, group 4 doesn't apply. I didn't think enough about you saying you couldn't tolerate big 3 and should've asked more questions so that those with MAC experience could advise. I just remembered my frustration and time spent before my cultures came back negative. So...
What did National Jewish advise you to do for treatment of your MAC?
Did you meet with respiratory therapy for airway clearance while you were there? What is your current routine?
If your trip was recent, I'd think you could contact your doc's nurse line to get advise.
Here's a McShane presentation on airway clearance that might help.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VEYK67nld_o
@sueinmn I strayed out of my sinus and just bronchiectasis lane here into MAC and didn't give best advice. Since you've a lot of experience with MAC and clearance, do you have some tips for her?

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Profile picture for pacathy @pacathy

I'm so sorry to confuse you, but if you have an active infection, group 4 doesn't apply. I didn't think enough about you saying you couldn't tolerate big 3 and should've asked more questions so that those with MAC experience could advise. I just remembered my frustration and time spent before my cultures came back negative. So...
What did National Jewish advise you to do for treatment of your MAC?
Did you meet with respiratory therapy for airway clearance while you were there? What is your current routine?
If your trip was recent, I'd think you could contact your doc's nurse line to get advise.
Here's a McShane presentation on airway clearance that might help.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VEYK67nld_o
@sueinmn I strayed out of my sinus and just bronchiectasis lane here into MAC and didn't give best advice. Since you've a lot of experience with MAC and clearance, do you have some tips for her?

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You hit it right on.
The only suggestion, something that helps me, is to nebulize the saline, then walk, exercise or do some housework before trying to do airway clearance. This gives the the saline time to penetrate. Do you use anything to thin what mucus you do have?

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